Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-28-2018, 07:56 PM
dogdoc dogdoc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 113
Likes: 5
Liked 45 Times in 25 Posts
Default Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special

I am having a problem getting a good accurate load in 38 special plus p or even 357 mag with these commercial cast bevel base bullets. I am an old hand loader and can get get some good loads with my flat base and gas check hand cast bullets or jacketed bullets but I often lack time to cast hence the bevel base coated and non coated 158 grain swc .358 commercial cast bullets. By good accuracy I mean 2 inch or less benched 5 or 6 shot groups at 25 yards. I am looking for midrange loads to turn out in quantity on my Dillon reloaders for my many smith revolvers . Any suggestions, loads, or experiences would be appreciated. Any loads with those bullets that just seem to shoot well in a variety of revolvers?

Thanks
Dogdoc
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:46 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: South Texas
Posts: 751
Likes: 655
Liked 777 Times in 358 Posts
Default

I'm not sure what powder you're using but for starters, I like using Titegroup for lead cast bullets. For my 38 special I use 3.4gr, 158gr cast LSWC, and a COL of 1.445". This should give you around 770fps +/-

For 357 magnum I use 4.9gr Titegroup, 158gr cast LSWC and a COL of 1.588". Use a tapered crimp on both, but not too aggressive of a crimp, just enough to get the bevel out of the case mouth and slightly rounded in. This load should get you around 980fps +/-
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:59 PM
dogdoc dogdoc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 113
Likes: 5
Liked 45 Times in 25 Posts
Default

I have used a variety of ponders: power pistol,hs6, cfe pistol,unique ,. Titegroup is one I have not. I have tons of it for other applications swo I will try your loads .
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:28 PM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: for now ,Texas
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 56
Liked 1,069 Times in 545 Posts
Default

My favorite 357 load using a 158 gr cast bullet is 7.5 grs of WSF . If i want more power , I use 9.0 grs of HS-6 . The WSF load is my " everyday " carry load . It's a great mid range 357 load , accurate and very clean .
Regards , Paul
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:31 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 426
Likes: 146
Liked 662 Times in 218 Posts
Default

I always use Bullseye for powder puff loads but lately have been using a lot of Universal. Very Accurate with 130 and 158gr coated lead.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-29-2018, 12:15 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 6,519
Likes: 201
Liked 3,600 Times in 1,891 Posts
Default

You might try the 38 spl with CFE pistol at 5.5grs.

and the 357 case with HS6 at 9.5grs for a nice target load.
per my 686 6" revolver.

Hope you find a load that works.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-29-2018, 12:36 PM
oneounceload oneounceload is offline
Suspended
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 1,354
Liked 1,381 Times in 612 Posts
Default

Mine work just fine, but then I do not push them to +p or 357 level. Mid-range good old 38 Spl levels should get you excellent accuracy with any number of powders, including Unique, Universal, Bullseye and Titegroup.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:00 PM
ggibson511960 ggibson511960 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 316
Likes: 222
Liked 207 Times in 123 Posts
Default Other Variables

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say that the use of BB bullets is but one of the factors to worry about. Mike Venturino in Handloader seems to worry a lot more about cylinder throat and bore diameter than bullet heel design. Yes, a skirted base can cover a lot of other problems, but then bullet hardness and velocity come into play. At the operating pressure of .38 Spcl there are any number of powders that should work.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:09 PM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 213
Likes: 34
Liked 134 Times in 78 Posts
Default

been messing with 158 Missouri coated hard cast in 357.. Like u was kinda surprised at the high SD as I had assumed these were the tried and true bullets for this caliber.
For me HS6 and 2400 performed poorly, however at around 1100, BE 86,, a powder made specifically for coated bullets performed well.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:18 PM
arjay's Avatar
arjay arjay is online now
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 11,062
Likes: 50,598
Liked 14,535 Times in 5,153 Posts
Default

Try 4.2-4.3 gr of unique in a 38 spl case
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:17 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 10
Liked 287 Times in 163 Posts
Default

Like RVGshooter I use Titegroup with my 158gr swc bullets. The ones I use are a bevel base from SNS sized .358. I use the exact same load of 4.9 grains of powder mostly because that's what my Lee disc pro likes to drop. All my .357's like that load ranging from a 2.5" barrel up to an 8 3/8" barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:23 PM
daniel lawecki's Avatar
daniel lawecki daniel lawecki is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: toledo ohio
Posts: 612
Likes: 600
Liked 701 Times in 302 Posts
Default

Cast 158 SWC and Titegroup middle of the road load 3.4 grains.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-30-2018, 12:54 AM
johngalt johngalt is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 2,964
Likes: 191
Liked 2,363 Times in 1,036 Posts
Default

Sounds like you have far more experience than I. I was always told by thr bullseye shooters that flat base was more accurate than bevel base. I don't know how significant though.

I quit buying commercial cast bullets though. Every one I tried was far too hard and had poor accuracy. I much prefer swaged bullets. I do mostly target shooting, so I'm not loading them hot.
__________________
Common sense isn't so common.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-30-2018, 07:02 AM
sheppard sheppard is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

I have been loading .38 special for years and long ago found that swaged lead bullets such as the Remington 158 grain semi-wadcutter over 4.3 grains of Winchester 231 gives me an accurate load that does not lead my barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-30-2018, 09:15 AM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is online now
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 1,051
Liked 2,554 Times in 1,028 Posts
Default

Unique 6.0 grains under Badman 158 grain LRNFP (beveled wadcutter). Crimped into groove.
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-30-2018, 09:31 AM
Hasbeen1945 Hasbeen1945 is online now
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Deer Park Texas
Posts: 167
Likes: 100
Liked 116 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Tried a lot of different powders with the different 158’s. Pretty much settled on Accurate # 5.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 03-30-2018, 06:47 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is online now
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 135
Liked 794 Times in 456 Posts
Default

I used to have a negative opinion about BB bullets..but have changed it since I have a few moulds on my Master Caster that deliver them.They are as accurate as flat base and I say this based on more than one caliber and more than one configuration.
This being said,bullet hardness is being given way too much importance in the fact that a bullet will or won't lead.Diameter of bullet vs diameter of chambers is far more important;but that has been said before and will again be written about.

What works for me and in many .38Spl or .357 Mag is as follows:
target load:148 WC BB H&G 50 on top of 2.6gr 700X(or 2.8 Bullseye or 2.7 Red Dot,Promo).
Soft Load:Lee Mould 125gr(comes out at 132gr)on top of 3.5gr Promo(804fps chronoed in a 6''bbl).
regular .38Spl:154gr SWC(NEI mould)propelled by 3.8gr Titegroup(899 fps chronoed from a 6'' bbl)
38 +P:same 154 Swc with 6.0 gr PowerPistol.Didn't chrono it yet but heads turn toward me on the firing line when I shoot these.PowerPistol is known to be noisy.I shoot these from a 4'' model 13.
All these loads will perform well;I shoot them handheld no rest and all will stay in 4'' at 25 when I'm having a good day(which is not often enough for my taste!).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 03-30-2018, 07:12 PM
Trooper224's Avatar
Trooper224 Trooper224 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 150
Likes: 30
Liked 416 Times in 61 Posts
Default

5.2 grains of Unique has worked well for me in .38 Special. For a mid range .357 load, 6.5 grains Unique and for a full house load, 14.2 grains 2400. All deliver accuracy within your desired parameters.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-31-2018, 10:04 AM
IAhunter's Avatar
IAhunter IAhunter is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cochise County, Arizona
Posts: 174
Likes: 96
Liked 104 Times in 46 Posts
Default

I tend to not get too creative with my .38 Special, 158 lead loads, 4.7 grains of Unique has been getting it done (for decades) as a target load. It is a standard velocity load, as I see no need for speed for this purpose. Yeah, Unique doesn't measure as well as some, but the accuracy is there.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-31-2018, 09:59 PM
dogdoc dogdoc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 113
Likes: 5
Liked 45 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Will try 3.8 grains titegroup tommorow with 158 grain bevev base swc coated. I mounted a scope on one of my 686s 6 inch Smith’s to take away the affects of my poor 50 something eyes. I will bench them at 25 yards and see what I get. I will also try some of the other suggestions as time allows and see.
thanks
Dogdoc
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-31-2018, 10:06 PM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: for now ,Texas
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 56
Liked 1,069 Times in 545 Posts
Default

5.0 grs of Unique has been a std 38spl load using 158 gr cast bullets for decades . Skeeter Skelton referred to it as " the everyday working mans load " . I have gone up to 5.7 grs of Unique in 38spl case and the accuracy was phenomenal . These were shot out of a 357 pistol as I have no 38spl's.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-06-2018, 01:44 PM
dogdoc dogdoc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 113
Likes: 5
Liked 45 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Tried 3.8 it tight group and got 2/inch or a little better with mixed brass. Got great accuracy with several loads in magnum brass all star line brass. I think mixed brass may be inhibiting my groups with 38 special.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:15 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is online now
Member
Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special Bevel base 158 grain swc loads 38 special  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 135
Liked 794 Times in 456 Posts
Default

Dogdoc,after re-reading your OP,one thing popped up in my mind;are the bullets you are using .357 or .358''?Have you measured them to see if they are as advertised??If they are .357 try to find some that are at .358 or,if you want to go the whole 9 yards,measure the chamber mouths of your cylinder.If the dimensions of the bullet is too small for the chambermouth,the accuracy will go out the window...and might collect some leading as an unwanted bonus.
Good luck!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bevel base bullets Qc Pistolero Reloading 12 01-15-2017 10:52 PM
Flat base vs Bevel base crsides Reloading 10 12-03-2012 07:39 PM
38-44, bevel base Tenn. Val.? beagleye Reloading 11 06-16-2012 12:38 AM
Bevel base bullet accuracy. Smokepole60 Reloading 12 12-03-2011 02:29 AM
148 bevel base wadcutters dkp9782 Reloading 11 11-27-2010 07:45 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:08 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)