I have a question about the taper crimp for reloading for S&W Model 52. When setting the crimp, how much should the reduction in diameter be at the end of the case?

I have one box of Winchester factory loads.
Case diameter 0.375"
Diameter at end of case is 0.370" (as best I can measure).


My reloads:
Cases: G.F.L. 38 Special
Case diameter 0.373" diameter.
I adjusted the crimp at the end to be 0.368" diameter using Lyman taper/crimp die.

This is for reloading Magnus #514 bullets HBWC (148 grain, .375" die) over 2.8 grains of Bullseye.

Is this reasonable? Should the crimp be more or less?

You don't care about the crimp, explicitly. The question is do the rounds feed through your gun? With the slide closed, load the magazine, insert loaded mag in gun, with the safety ON pull the slide all the way back and let go. Cycle slide 4 more times, did all the rounds feed and the slide go into battery?

Yes -- you are good to go. No -- try a roll crimp over the edge of a flush seated wadcutter bullet. This is the way I tested my M52 that I shot for about 10 years and sold for a nice profit. And NO, I don't miss that gun.

__________________
S&WHF 366

The rounds feed through the gun, no problem.

I am new to this gun (or vice versa). I was not very accurate with it. Gil Hebard wrote that reloading is critical for good results. I'm trying to emulate the factory rounds.

I try for a .002 crimp .
Works fine.
The 52 is a great gun.
Takes practice to shoot well.
I run about 25 rounds through it each range visit.
Concentration and follow through is key.
Enjoy it .

I have never really measured my reloads, I use a slight crimp, just enough to slightly roll the edge over. As long as it feeds it should be good to go. Remington 148 HBWC (no longer available..) with 2.7g Bullseye. With new cases I also cut them all back .010 to a uniform length for the crimp.

Can either a roll crimp or a taper crimp be used? For the M-52, is one better than the other? Can using the "wrong" type of crimp damage anything?

The 38 Special head spaces on the rim, a taper crimp is normally for rounds like the 45ACP that headspace on the case at the very front. I use a roll crimp. I doubt either would damage anything unless used to heavily.

The M52 is an unforgiving gun. Trigger control, sight alignment, and grip all have to be consistent shot to shot to achieve small group sizes. It can be immensely rewarding or very frustrating.

If your empty brass ejects 18" to 24" from the gun, you will never harm it. Remington factory HBWC brass ejected about 4 feet from my gun with soft recoil. My reloads in military brass lasted forever, 20+ reloads, using a roll crimp. I trimmed all my brass once so that I had a consistent crimp and used only my brass. I shot range pickup brass in my revolvers.

Reloading for a M52 is the easy part if you use light target loads. SHOOTING a M52 accurately is an eye / hand challenge. The gun will do it, but can you? For me, the answer sometimes was NO.

Enjoy shooting your M52, it was built to be shot.

__________________
S&WHF 366

As Engineer1911 said, the reason to trim your cases is get a uniform length, and a uniform crimp. For a straight walled case like the 38 Special a roll crimp is best. I also keep the brass segregated between the 52 and other 38's. Mainly for the uniformed crimp. 52's can be unforgiving, but also very much rewarding.

So I should buy one of these???

That is one that would work well, but most likely expensive. Ihave an older RCBS hand trimmer that works well. To trim a case one does need something like that.

Lyman Universal Carbide Case Trimmer Kit 9 Pilots - MPN: 7862009

I have this trimmer. I removed the trimmer shaft, removed the hand crank, and turned down the end where the crank was attached to 3/8" diameter x 3/8" long. Reassemble the trimmer shaft and use an electric drill to turn the cutter shaft.

Oh by the way, I am on my second electric drill and it doesn't sound real healthy either. I've trimmed thousands of 357 mag, 44 mag, and rifle brass cases.

__________________
S&WHF 366

Over the past several days, I've learned there isn't much point to setting a "crimp" until your cases are all the same length.

As a starting point, for the M-52, what is the case length that you guys are or were using?

Amazingly, I have one of the case trimmers you referred to. Never used it, and wasn't sure of what it was for. Someone gave it to me. I took this photo, then spent quite a while cleaning it:



Since I'm just testing out these ideas, I will take the seater/crimper die in my progressive press, and only use it for seating the bullet. Then I'll need to use a crimp die in my old RCBS Big Max to complete the job. So, given all the possibilities I've been reading about, what is the best crimp die to use? Roll crimp? Taper crimp? ....which then leads to how much of a crimp should be used.

Final question, once we have established an appropriate case length, how much lower than the case should the bullet be? Unless I'm missing something, it needs to be lower by enough space for the case to be properly crimped, without damaging the bullet.

Attached Images

IMG_1274.jpg (143.0 KB, 746 views)

Something nobody reads, except foolish people like me....
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR...saltrimmer.pdf

I have always used a roll crimp for straight walled cases. Taper for rimless like the 45 ACP, 40 S&W etc. I trim the cases new or used back .005 to .010 inch for a uniform length. I have never had them stretch over many reloading's. I use a very slight roll, just enough to see it rolling a bit over the flush seated wadcutter. Others may know more, but this works for me.

How long should the case be after trimming? For use in the Model 52, is there some length that people have more or less settled on? Without the cases being the same length, the crimping will be different based on case length.

Going from memory not a good thing... 1.550 max. Trim back to 1.500 to 1.450. Any reloading manual should have trim length and minimum and maximum length. As long as they are the same length is the important part.

I have read people trimming .015-.020 short, but that usually seems to be in connection with trying to make their gun feed better. I always trim .010 under and have never had function problems. I’ve used both taper and roll crimp dies. I prefer roll.

I’d suggest keeping your crimp on the light side and making sure your expander plug is about .002 smaller than your bullets. I am not a perfectionist reloader by any means, but I’ve never suspected that my ammo was to blame for my lack of “good luck” with the 52. It’s a tough cookie.

I use a Lyman case trimmer with a right angle drill to trim my cases, works very well and is very consistent . I crimp with a Lee Factory crimp die. I have an old Dillon 450RL I leave set up just to reload for my model 52. It’s the set up on the right. Find what works for your M52 and stick with it.

Attached Images

B972C9AF-EB08-4B1F-9003-5743E96A7041.jpg (72.8 KB, 48 views)

I may as well throw in my 2¢....for the Model 52....
Trimmed to 1.42 (I believe that I got that measurement from this forum), a very light roll crimp just a shave below flush, about a half a finger nail thickness.
148gr Bear Creek LHBWC with WW SPP and 2.7gr of Bullseye powder.
Light load, throwing empties just past my right foot. Like others have stated, kept all of my 52 brass separate from all other brass and got many reloads out of it.

I like to crimp .003", but the variance in case wall thickness of different brands of brass precludes me giving you an overall diameter of the finished round. It could vary a few thousandths. since flush set loads with no crimp will normally feed (factory rounds) O.K., anything less than no crimp will usually give you no problems.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Most lead 148 wc bullets have a rounded front edge...
and not a sharp square one, which means that the lead bullet can.......
actually stick out just a very little from the brass case, and still
have a crimp form around it, with no problems.

Good shooting.

I believe its generally accepted that Model 52s like brass trimmed to minimum length. I seat bullets flush with just a slight roll crimp.

I don't have a 52, so I can't give advice specific to it. I do have a
Clark .38 special. I prefer taper crimp to roll crimp, and just barely enough to remove the case flare so that it feeds reliably. The neck tension should be plenty to hold the bullet, crimp does not help that.

Remember that the purpose of a roll crimp is to keep the bullet from unseating under recoil in a revolver. Bullets won't unseat in a magazine.

__________________
Common sense isn't so common.

If you ever know about someone wanting to sell a Clark .38 Special, please let me know. They're very hard to find. Nice gun!!!

Mine will definitely never be for sale. I can imagine they are hard to find, as few would be willing to part with it.

__________________
Common sense isn't so common.

I would like to check on a few things that we discussed, but never decided on.

1 - has anyone found a documented case length that works best on the Model 52?

2 - I've recently found out that some cases for 38 Special use "thicker" brass, and the thinner brass is better for the lead wadcutter bullets we use. I checked, and yes, some other cases I was given are heavier and thicker. I have no plans to use them - the thinner ones seem to be recommended.

3 - Does it matter if the case has one or two "cannelures" on it?

4 - Given a choice of brands, for cases, are some better than others, and if so, which ones are "best"? Remington and Federal?


I'm away right now, but will be getting back into the reloading in about three weeks.

I'm also wondering about something I've been reading. Several people here say the cases land at their feet, or maybe a foot or two away at most. If cases land much further than that, does this mean I need a softer recoil spring? I've been using the (old) standard spring, but bought the Wolff spring pack that has standard, heavier, and lighter.

(I have two 52's, one that is untouched, and the other that I've been working on for ages, with other people before me. Will be interesting to compare them to each other.)

I trim Starline cases using the Lee cutter and Lee Zip drive. Chamfer with Lee chamfer tool.

Speer 148 grn HBWC. 2.7 grn Bullseye.

Great load. Fantastic pistol.

__________________
and what his trumpet saith

Use factory weight springs to protect the gun. Use a light load that ejects 18" to 24" to maximum case life. Adjust your powder charge 0.1 grain at a time to get best accuracy. You don't want the empty case to bounce off your shooting hand when the gun cycles, and there is no need to have the case land 6 feet from your shooting position -- your load is too hot for a M52.

__________________
S&WHF 366

Thanks for the detailed answer.

My target for trimming cases: 1.139" +/- 0.001
(which matches what you used)


Splitting cases - haven't had any, after many reloads.


Powder amount - 2.7 grains Bullseye as suggested in Bullseye forum and confirmed by Terry Labbe at Magnus bullets. Sometimes cases land at my feet. Sometimes they're at least six feet away from me. Is it possible that the roads that had 2.8 grains were "too hot" as you suggested, and I should aim for 2.6 grains, so the maximum never exceeds 2.7 ? My press is only accurate +/- 0.1 grains. I've been told that is because I'm using Bullseye powder, but I haven't found an alternate powder - yet.


My first gun has the original factory spring. My second gun may or may not - need to measure. I bought the Wolff spring kit for Model 52, one "stock", one heavier, and one lighter. From what you're saying, I should put in their stock spring, so I have a known starting point.

(I did buy a spring tester kit - will use that when I get home.)