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Old 04-05-2018, 10:09 AM
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Default BE-86 or Power Pistol

For those of you with experience with BE-86 and Power Pistol, which one would you recommend for 10mm? How about with .44 and .357 mag?

I currently use Blue Dot with my 10mm loads, and 2400 with the magnums. Wondering if BE-86 or PP would work as well for all of these? Not looking for nuclear loads, but I do want full power capability for the caliber, with good consistency/accuracy.

I've done some research and it looks like BE-86 may be a better option than PP due to lower flash and boom, but again looking for some first-hand experience as I've never used these powders.

I also load 9mm and.38spcl, with W231, and .45acp with Bullseye. Would BE-86 and/or PP be better for those loads. I know they are slower powders, and from what I've read some folks seem to be getting some great results with BE-86. Wondering if it's worth changing to the newer powder... Thanks!
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:02 AM
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I have used both in several different loads in multiple calibers and I like them both. The flash of PP is impressive AND distracting. That flash is less obvious in 9mm that the others and PP made some nice accurate 124/125gr loads for me just barely sub-sonic at 4.5gr PP out of several guns. Works well.

BE86 has the middle ground covered pretty well and has kind of taken Unique out of the picture for the last few years. BE86 also worked better with coated bullets in 40, 45 & 44mag. BE86 did not work well for me on the slower loads and started to get dirty in 45 when speeds dropped. Bullseye still seems more versatile in 45 for diverse use and offers noticeably less recoil.

IMO, neither PP or BE86 is going to replace 2400 (or Blue Dot) for true full powered mag loads. I was happy with some loads out of my 629 with 240LSWC in mag case under 7.7gr for general use up to 11.4gr for faster stuff. I still prefer 2400 for the grin inducing stuff though.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:30 AM
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Think of BE86 as a finer grained Unique powder that takes up less volume.

That said, it will not match 2400 in the magnums for max fps.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:49 AM
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BE-86 is my vote . Neither will deliver full magnum capability . 2400 and rams hot enforcer are great for that. Remember that 2400 can be down loaded some and still be effective. Regards , Paul
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:12 PM
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I have used both a fair bit, quite a lot in 10mm. I find the BOOM from PP to be very annoying at indoor ranges. Outdoors not so much, though even in daylight outside the muzzle flash can be impressive. I am not throwing away my PP but am probably not buying any more either.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:15 PM
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I haven't tried BE86 in 10mm yet, but never a fan of PP in anything. It is accurate & decent vel across several calibers but the blast is just annoying. You didn't ask but AA#7 or AA#9 are a better bet for top vel in 10mm with exc accuracy.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:55 PM
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OP, thanks for starting this thread. I just started loading 10mm and, after checking out several other forums, picked up some PP because all the fanboys were gaga about it. But they also all seemed to want to load to loony pressures.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:03 PM
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BE 86 is supposedly very similar in performance to power pistol without the flash and boom.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:04 PM
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Thanks guys, great feedback so far...!
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:07 PM
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There is more data available for Power Pistol but I've been using BE86 for low pressure target loads in .45ACP, .44 Mag & .454 Casull & have been very happy with it. Very clean & meters well. I have been using Unique data.

According to Alliant BE86 is Power Pistol with a flash suppressant that speeds it up to about Unique's burn rate.

EDIT: Should been "speeds up"
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:39 PM
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Nobody can answer your questions but...your gun. Buy a pound and try it.

That said, I'd be surprised if you found BE86 a suitable replacement for 231/Bullseye in the .38spl and .45ACP target loads.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:56 PM
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I use BE-86 for some of my lower pressure cartridges such as .38 Special and .45 Colt. For .44 Magnum I find that 9 grains of BE-86 gets me 1040 FPS out of a 4.6" Super Blackhawk. I don't recommend sizzling hot loads with that powder. I do not recommend Power Pistol for the 10 mm, .357, or .44 Magnum as the muzzle flash will be excessive to say the least.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:18 PM
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Not one of your two choices, but look at

Longshot Powder. Great metering, lower pressures, enough bang for the buck!

Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:13 PM
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PP has always been good for me accurate powder....flash bang never bothers me....good powder....never had good luck with BE-86 for accuracy and overall just don't like it....some people say its like Unique but I have compared the two side by side with numerous loads in 9mm and 40 and I disagree, its not the same.... got 1 1/2 pounds left of BE-86 that will be fertilizer unless I can find someone locally to trade for it...

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Old 04-05-2018, 08:54 PM
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I use BE86 for .380 auto, 9mm, .38spl, and medium loads for .357 mag. That said, I used PP before , and also W231. I find BE86 to be almost a universal powder, (like Unique) but meters a whole lot better. BE86 produces some snappy loads, so start off mid range.
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Old 04-06-2018, 02:18 AM
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Power Pistol. If I was forced to be limited to just one powder, for everything I reload in, this would be it. Plus I like the flash.

You mentioned 2400, not sure if you meant in the 10mm too but I found it groups very well in my 1076 & 1006s (14.5gr/2400 & 165gr JHP). You don't get as much velocity but it works surprising well. I do generally save my 2400 for my large revolver cartridges though.

.

Just shot my first 10mm rounds thru my modified 4013 today using P-P. Shot lower than as a 40S&W but I compensated for it.

.



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Old 04-06-2018, 03:45 AM
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I'll second Longshot that Rule3 mentioned. It's a pretty versatile powder and I load it in 9MM, 38 Special, 357 Mag and 44 Mag. I find it much the same usefulness as Blue Dot, but it meters much much better for me. Also, I really like Accurate #9 for hotter loads in 357 and 44 Mag. Nearly the same velocity as H110 without the boominess or muzzle flash. It might also do good in 10MM but I don't know because I don't own anything in that caliber. The Western Load Guide data does show data for A #9 in 10 MM though. Accurate #9 also meters very well.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:06 AM
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Before Power Pistol it was known as Bullseye 84 and a bulk powder used for commercial loads.

They like to keep us guessing.
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
They like to keep us in the dark
Fixed that.

Someone from Alliant does frequent another board and has provided a lot of info on BE86 among others.

I never had a need for the middle of the Powder Trinity until I started loading .44 Mag & .454 Casull. I needed something for low pressure target loads. In years past that was Unique. IMO it is now BE86.

A friend of mine still swears by Unique and loves his Power Pistol for the flash & BOOM!
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
I'll second Longshot...
I find it much the same usefulness as Blue Dot, but it meters much much better for me.
Power Pistol & Longshot load data is typically within a .5gr of each other where you find them tested under the same conditions in semi-auto cartridges. (Longshot being a tad slower but virtually interchangeable.)

Blue Dot is a lot slower.

With Bullseye assigned a relative quickness of 100, Blue Dot is listed at 37.8 and Power Pistol as 58.6.

.
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Power Pistol & Longshot load data is typically within a .5gr of each other where you find them tested under the same conditions in semi-auto cartridges. (Longshot being a tad slower but virtually interchangeable.)

Blue Dot is a lot slower.

With Bullseye assigned a relative quickness of 100, Blue Dot is listed at 37.8 and Power Pistol as 58.6.

.
Funny you should post this. I just checked on the Hodgden burn rate chart and they actually show Longshot to be a tad slower than Blue Dot. Longshot is #55 and Blue Dot is #52 on their chart. I do note though, that Hodgdon Longshot data shows less powder being used in loads for 357, 38 Special and 44 mag than Alliant shows for BD, which generally would seem like it should be the faster powder of the 2. Here is a link to the chart I am talking about: <<<LINK to chart>>>

Anyways, I wasn't referring to the burning speed so much as the usefulness of Longshot as compared to Blue Dot. I find them both to very pretty versatile. BD meters much worse for me in my Lyman 55 and also my original Dillon RL-450 powder measure. I haven't tried it in my new Dillon powder measure since I got it a few months ago. The finer grain flake of the LS seems to be more consistent in those powder measures. I've been using BD since the 80's and it's a great powder, but I just don't trust my powder measures to throw consistently with it. So I end up scale weighing the charges. Every once in a while, I will get a throw that will be .3-.4 heavier than normal and if I am pushing towards the hot side it will make a really hot round.
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:57 PM
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I wont use Power Pistol for anything.
If you cant get BE86 to work in a firearm, you are doing something wrong.
It is the top powder I use, and can be used from plinking to Power Loads too.
Herco is a good powder too.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:11 PM
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I am old fashioned and really like Unique for medium to full loads in
38 Special and my 9mm loadings but........

When you start to shove the biggest bullets made for these calibers,
case space disappears in a hurry and that is when.............

BE86 becomes the best powder for getting the maximum fps,
since I don't have Power Pistol or slow ball powders.
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:33 PM
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Default I've only seen....

I've only seen one pound of BE-86 in my life.
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:44 PM
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As for the speed of Blue Dot vs Longshot.

In a heavy 12 Ga. lead or Steel loading Blue Dot is considered a
faster burning powder than Longshot.

I tried Longshot in a 12 Ga. trap load, one time...........
and it was way too loud for my use, even with a head set.
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