Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:17 PM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 215
Likes: 34
Liked 138 Times in 79 Posts
Default surprising 148 WC results

Loading Bayou coated 148gr cast wadcutters crimped at last groove just shy of flush.
3.1 grs Tightgroup in 38 special cases. Shot through a 686 pro series 5 inch.
Gun is zeroed with full power 357 158gr XTP's, and cast SWC's at 1300 fps, factory Remington 158's, factory Magtec 158's and factory fiochi 140 FMJ as well as hard cast 180's at 1100 hit about same place at 25 meters.
Loading the 148 mousefarts aqnd went to run some plate racks at 15,, miss miss miss,,, rounds were a good 4 inches high ? I didnt paper or sand bag, but dang wasnt exppecting that much change
Any thoughts ? Should I speed up or slow down the 148's to come closer to my normal zero ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:27 PM
Old_Cop Old_Cop is offline
SWCA Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Crawford County PA
Posts: 703
Likes: 783
Liked 1,112 Times in 425 Posts
Default

Just to state the obvious, why not adjust the sights.
__________________
Made it, Ma! Top of the world!
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:58 PM
mike campbell's Avatar
mike campbell mike campbell is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: rural western NY
Posts: 400
Likes: 44
Liked 927 Times in 214 Posts
Default

Speed will lower them, but you don't want to try to speed up a wadcutter to impact 4" lower @ 15m. Adjust your sights.

Turn your sight down to bottom while counting the number of clicks. Write it down, 158 mag @ 25m = X clicks.

Come up halfway and check the WC's. Adjust up or down as necessary to zero and write it down, 148WC @ 15m = Y clicks. Label the box.
__________________
Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:22 PM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 215
Likes: 34
Liked 138 Times in 79 Posts
Default

Yeh , not changing sights.. guess I will load a batch at 950 and 750 see what happens.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-10-2018, 04:17 PM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 898
Likes: 219
Liked 683 Times in 366 Posts
Default

The simple answer is either adjust the sights or aim for the bottom of the plate. Adjusting the load will work but i'm guessing most wadcutters are meant for loads pushing 1,000 FPS. Be prepared to scrub your bore.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 04-10-2018, 04:30 PM
Drm50 Drm50 is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 2,110
Liked 4,185 Times in 1,477 Posts
Default

I'm shooting WCs cast with WWs out of 14 & 25 at 750fps and
have no problem with leading. I have went to 850fps in 25
with no leading
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-10-2018, 04:47 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 6,730
Likes: 235
Liked 3,818 Times in 1,987 Posts
Default

Why not try out other powders if you have them?

Bullseye, w231 and Trail Boss work for me in a 38 special case.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:00 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 876
Liked 1,115 Times in 499 Posts
Default

As a guy who regularly shoots a 4" 686 and 4" model 10 38 special....Yeah... you're going to get a deviance in elevation at distance of 25+ yards with different loads. This is here "Kentucky Windage" comes in handy. Learn it, embrace it, master it....Love it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:38 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is online now
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1,784
Liked 2,636 Times in 1,120 Posts
Default

I will suggest that--sometimes--frequent elevation changes can wear out S&W adjustable rears. The fix isn't expensive, but swapping the parts is rather fiddly.

A six o'clock hold, on the other hand, doesn't change anything.

And yes, I know I'm always pushing six o'clock holds.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:54 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 24,885
Likes: 29,814
Liked 21,440 Times in 10,431 Posts
Default Think if you were to try....

Do you think that you could try shooting a lighter bullet at higher velocity? I can't remember who makes them but they make DEWC bullets in like 125 grains. I think even lighter. Hard cast for higher velocities.

NOTE: See Matt's Bullets 75, 95, 100, 110, 115, 125 gr. Double ended wadcutters.

PS: Target guns are often sighted to the 6:00 oclock position of the dark area of the target. 4" sounds like a lot, so you could use another ring to aim on. Or a combo of things if you don't won't to move your sights 4".
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Last edited by rwsmith; 04-10-2018 at 06:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:58 PM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 898
Likes: 219
Liked 683 Times in 366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
I will suggest that--sometimes--frequent elevation changes can wear out S&W adjustable rears. The fix isn't expensive, but swapping the parts is rather fiddly.

A six o'clock hold, on the other hand, doesn't change anything.

And yes, I know I'm always pushing six o'clock holds.
If he's shooting a 8" plate and he's hitting 4" high changing to a six o'clock hold will have him ringing right in the middle of the plate. Additionally I find it easier to aim right at the bottom dead center of the plate. IMO it provides a better reference point than the middle of the plate.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:55 AM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 215
Likes: 34
Liked 138 Times in 79 Posts
Default

Probably just set these aside then zero the wifes J frame to them. Go back to my 158 SWC.
Im a center mass shooter, plates were 6" I guess a much bigger jump going from 148's at 800 and 158's and 180's at 11-1300,,
Most of my experience is with 40 and different loads were very minor change by comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-11-2018, 03:01 AM
moosedog moosedog is online now
SWCA Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,224
Likes: 3,410
Liked 5,545 Times in 1,527 Posts
Default

Wadcutters were designed for punching clean holes in paper. Why not shoot a SWC?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-12-2018, 08:35 AM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 215
Likes: 34
Liked 138 Times in 79 Posts
Default

I am new to Smith Revolvers, and everyone always talking about these as classic target rounds. ot doing so hot.
If I did need the 2 zero rout could just go with 2 different front sights, easier than messing with the rear. I have that quick change set up.
Shot some more yesterday and everything was high actually. My gun went back to Smith for crown work, and I only shot one group with it to confirm repairs. Been sittign a couple years and just started shooting it again recently. So might need taller front sight after all.
Had to chose between blurry sights clear target ot clear sights blurry target. Shot better groups with clear sights,, still not liking these 148's. Also cases kinda dark on outside. I think they are just too light.
I shot some 147 gr TC over 4.4 American Select. These shot better. So did the 180's over HS6, but need to group some 158's next...
Might bump these 148's up 2 tenths, see if that helps.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-12-2018, 10:04 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 996
Likes: 15
Liked 847 Times in 382 Posts
Default

Interesting to say the least.

The rules are?
There are no rules.

WC's do extremely well on plates/bowling pins/paper. They are also easy to reload seeing how they have so many different lube/crimp grooves. Take your 158gr load and bullet. Mark the seating depth of the 158gr bullet on the wc. Crimp the wc bullet in the crimp/lube groove that is the close to the mark. You are looking for the same case capacity.

Some plinking loads, nothing more than158gr fnhp's and 148gr wc's. The 158gr fnhp's are crimped in the bottom crimp groove & the 148gr wc's are crimped in the middle lube groove.


Bullets tend to be more accurate when moved out in the 38spl cases when being shot in 357 cylinders. Those loads pictured above/plinking/blammo ammo. Not hand picked targets by any means, nothing more then the actual test targets used to test 6-shot groups @ 50ft with the ammo pictured above.


The 148gr wc's actually had a little more case capacity so I bumped the powder up until both bullets had the same poa/poi.

Even with the wc's seated out the oal isn't too long for any of the 38spl revolvers I own.

You should try moving the wc's out/longer oal and use your standard loads from the 158's, 140's, 180's and see what happens. 1 of the loads should have the same poi/poa with the wc's.

I've ran 148gr wc's 1300fps+ in 357 cases with no problem. You can push them as hard as you want, they put a good smack on anything they hit.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 04-12-2018, 10:14 AM
Targets Guy's Avatar
Targets Guy Targets Guy is offline
US Veteran
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 7,650
Likes: 1,521
Liked 12,015 Times in 3,650 Posts
Default



photo uploader



from 10 yards

image hosting no account
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-12-2018, 11:42 AM
oddshooter oddshooter is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: the free state of Arizona
Posts: 179
Likes: 266
Liked 184 Times in 93 Posts
Default

I shot my 44 mag Seville and got 12" high hits with the back sight at the bottom. I was shooting heavy for caliber with light loads (300gr at 900fps). Sometimes called Flying Ashtrays. The groups were tiny at 25 yards, 1"; so this gun is a shooter. Without changing to a taller front sight, David Bradshaw told me to go light bullets for caliber and hot loads.

I shot factory 255 gr at 1000fps and dropped 3".

I tried handloading 200gr bullets going only 1150fps and dropped 8". Unbelievable !
I have some more 200gr bullets loaded for 1300fps and believe they may be the ticket.

Should anyone even do this? I have 44 mag rounds now for that one revolver. I marked them, but what a PITA.
I'm thinking a taller front sight and I can move the back sight off the floor and get some adjustment back. I think repairing the revolver rather than the ammo is a much better solution. Then I can shoot any kind of 44 mag ammo I want and adjust.

Prescut

Last edited by oddshooter; 04-12-2018 at 11:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-12-2018, 12:55 PM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,996
Likes: 4,475
Liked 1,705 Times in 899 Posts
Default

Hi Joe,

I don't mean to muddy the water, but ...

Shooting, cartridges and bullets are like ice cream, that is why there is Baskin Robbins.

Please remember that there are 3 different types of wadcutters, each filling a specific mission: hollow based wadcutters (HBWC), double ended, and button nosed. The classic wadcutter load uses the HBWC bullet at low velocity (c 710 fps) ... this is where the swaged skirt of the hollow based expands to catch the rifling and give the best accuracy. To get the same accuracy from cast DEWCs and BNWCs you have to play with the bullet sizing. Shooting a swaged HBWC at a higher velocity risks the separation of the hollow base skirt from the wadcutter.

DEWCs can be used to increase reloading speed (production, not charging the cylinder) or for semi-autos like the Smith 52 or the old Colt National Match 38s. BNWCs are typically a revolver bullet that can aid in aligning bullets into chambers when using a speedloader or speed strips.

Swayed HBWCs are velocity sensitive while cast WCs are not as velocity sensitive.
__________________
Judge control not gun control!

Last edited by lrrifleman; 04-12-2018 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-12-2018, 12:56 PM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 215
Likes: 34
Liked 138 Times in 79 Posts
Default

These 148 I had seated nearly flush over 3.1 grs tight group.
My other loads are out at typical length. Yeh These are bayou coated can push them at whatever velocity I want. Cases were sooty so I am thinking I need more pressure to work. Really though the intent was to make some mousefart loads for the wife to start with.
Ive got plenty of 158 SWC and 147 TC's
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-12-2018, 01:07 PM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is offline
Member
surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results surprising 148 WC results  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,996
Likes: 4,475
Liked 1,705 Times in 899 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
These 148 I had seated nearly flush over 3.1 grs tight group.
My other loads are out at typical length. Yeh These are bayou coated can push them at whatever velocity I want. Cases were sooty so I am thinking I need more pressure to work. Really though the intent was to make some mousefart loads for the wife to start with.
Ive got plenty of 158 SWC and 147 TC's
Joe,

A true mousefart load would be comparable to 2.8 gr Bullseye at about 700 fps.

The presence of soot indicates that you need more crimp. Do a noticeable roll crimp into a crimp groove.If you want flush bullets, do a noticeable roll crimp over the top of the wadcutter. Take a look at a picture of a factory swaged HBWC as a guide.
__________________
Judge control not gun control!

Last edited by lrrifleman; 04-12-2018 at 01:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Surprising Roadster. bigwheelzip The Lounge 2 07-23-2017 10:21 AM
Surprising statistic (to me)... Adk.IBO Concealed Carry & Self Defense 84 01-06-2015 09:46 PM
Surprising penetration UKRsoldier Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 10 02-10-2014 04:13 PM
Surprising Auction Results HEs glowe S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 7 12-18-2013 04:42 PM
Surprising Auction Results glowe S&W Antiques 7 12-17-2013 02:42 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)