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Old 04-12-2018, 07:56 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
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Default Is reloading bottle neck cases a PITA

I have been loading straight cased pistol cartridges for years. A few times I've thought about reloading for my rifles but after considering the case lube and the mess and everything I end up saying to myself "eh, sounds like a PITA". Straight walled cases with carbide dies are super easy. Is it really a pain taking the extra steps on bottlenecked cases or am I limiting myself by not fully understanding the process. I have some older lever action rifles that would lend themselves well to cast bullets. I also was offered a really sweet deal on a nice Winchester .375 which I would love but ammo is scarce and stupidly expensive when (if) you find it.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:01 PM
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No big deal....many of us use Hornady One Shot Spray lube and the issue of lubing is a thing of the past.......Get some dies and have a blast!!

Randy
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:08 PM
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I have a 223 contender barrel and I find loading for it a minor nuisance compared to the pistol calibers I'm used to loading for. It's not hard but straight wall has me spoiled.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:14 PM
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i think trimming is the biggest annoyance but still worth reloading bottleneck cases
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:15 PM
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It's not hard, but it's different. I use my Pacific single stage for .243's and such. I would get a old Lyman or Pacific/Hornady reloading manual and read the section about loading them, then read it again. Just follow the instructions and have fun.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:21 PM
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The last time I remember reading anything on it they mentioned applying the lube with your fingers and I thought "geez that's got to be messy". So before going back to my Lyman cast bullet manual to do some reading let me ask this. Do most guys Lube, resize, trim and decap as one step then after cleaning the cases come back to do the actual loading.

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Old 04-12-2018, 08:22 PM
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I don't think it's a pain, but it's different. You have to trim the cases but that is not a big deal. I use One Shot to lube and that isn't a bother. There is more to setting up the die then straight cases but the directions are clear on how to do it.

I started loading with rifle cartridges first so maybe I'm used to it. You can really produce some accurate ammo that will amaze you.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:25 PM
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If do not use your rifles often, I would agree that purchasing your ammo is the better choice. You can spend a great deal of time in case preparation and more money for equipment to produce rounds that equal factory fodder.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sailor View Post
The last time I remember reading anything on it they mentioned applying the lube with your fingers and I thought "geez that's got to be messy". So before going back to my Lyman cast bullet manual to do some reading let me ask this. Do most guys Lube, resize, trim and decap as one step then after cleaning the cases come back to do the actual loading.
Yup,rather than using my fingers I just roll them across a pad and use a case neck brush on the inside of the neck.Its easy enough,I started with rifle cases long before reloading for pistol
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:30 PM
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When you can load X-Lite to full loads for your rifles that are
not put out by the factory ammo and get super tight groups
you will understand why people reload for rifle cases.

Lube is mandatory unless you like a case stuck in your die !!

Making a 30-06 into a light 30-40 Krag to take deer is sweet.....
little recoil and less meat wasted.

A little 100gr Hornady at just 1,600fps for the kids or a 50 yard rabbit
for the pot is also nice to have as a load in the ammo box.

Later.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:34 PM
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Any of the spray lubricants greatly reduce the effort in reloading bottle neck cases, Spray, size, trim if needed, than reload as usual. Bottle neck cases don't usually last as long as straight walled, but the cost savings is worth it especially for odd or antiquated ammo.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:41 PM
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To put it simply.......no! Anyone truly interested in handloading enjoys any time spent engaging in the hobby. Whether it means full length resizing 460 Weatherby magnum cases or cleaning salvaged lead from shooting ranges! I've been involved in all aspects of handloading for well over 45 years and I still enjoy it!
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:45 PM
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I've got tons of brass for the 32-40 and the 30-30. Not sure how much I have for the 25-35 but I always keep my brass so I must have a decent supply in my store room. I wouldn't think cost would be too bad. I'd need dies of course and the correct dies for my trimmer. Most of the rest is just normal reloading stuff (powder, bullets, primers etc) I would think.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:47 PM
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Default Reloading Bottleneck Ctg

As others have said , the Hornady One Shot spray lube works great with no mess. I started with rifle .223 and 6mm BR, so when I went to the straight wall handgun cartridges it was an easy transition. Willyboy
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:48 PM
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I still load the same way I did when I was taught over 50yrs ago. Started
with bottle neck rifle cartridges. Shot a lot more back then but not to the
extreme of feeding ARs to a shooter that is engaged in one of the shooting
games. With most CF ammo going for at least $20/20 and some much more like the 375Win or 375 H&H you may want to look into it. It's not
that much different and brass doesn't have to be trimmed each time in
most rifles. Once you see it done or do it yourself you will think nothing
of it. The only thing you will have to buy is Lube, dies and case trimmer
if you don't already have one.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:48 PM
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I suppose I should have mentioned the only reason I find loading 223 a nuisance is because I basically plink with it. I'm not setting out to find the best accuracy, all it has to do is knock down a 1/2 scale ram at 100 yds with a pistol.

Now the truly accurate rifle loads I make are quite enjoyable as I load them on a much smaller scale. I wasn't really thinking about rifle loads when I made my first post
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:21 PM
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Yep they are a pain compared to pistol straight walled cases. I look at this way, I only reload 20 to 40 at a time for hunting rifles, pistols its 100+ at a time.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:37 PM
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.375 Winchester is not a bottle necked round. The case has a taper but no neck like a traditional rifle case.

Reloading bottle neck cartridges has a couple different aspects to it and takes a little longer but it's worth it if you shoot a lot. Spending $.75 to $1.00 or more per shot starts to add up real quickly. In my experiences the Hornady spray is not sufficient lube for the inside of the case mouth and will result in stretched cases that do not chamber. Additionally if you don't coat the case real well in can result cases stick in he die. Applying traditional lube is real easy and using a Q-tip to apply lube in the neck isn't too bad. I figure Spending the extra time is worth it because you are also saving quite a bit more with every round. Additionally you can download the rounds as it so you're able to shoot 50 or more rounds at a time without having to ice your shoulder afterwards.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:01 PM
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It's not PITA, just more steps involved. As already been mentioned you'd need some kind of lube for bottleneck cases (I use same can of Imperial wax for past 5 years and there's still plenty left). After sizing I tumble in lizard bedding to remove lube, trim if necessary, chamfer case mouth and then it's the same - prime, charge, seat bullet, crimp. For some calibers I combine sizing and trimming into a single step (Dillon trimmer) but that's kind of expensive solution.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sailor View Post
The last time I remember reading anything on it they mentioned applying the lube with your fingers and I thought "geez that's got to be messy". So before going back to my Lyman cast bullet manual to do some reading let me ask this. Do most guys Lube, resize, trim and decap as one step then after cleaning the cases come back to do the actual loading.
My usual procedure is:
1. Deprime, clean primer pockets (to assure uniform primer seating).
2. Inspect brass (cracks, excessive head expansion, noticeable damage).
3. Lube cases (case bodies only, no lube on case necks or shoulders). I use wax-based lube, no grease or oily stuff.
4. Resize. I remove the expander buttons from my sizer dies, relying on the Lyman M-dies for most consistent neck expansion with much less wear and tear on the brass.
5. Neck expansion using Lyman M-die.
6. Clean off case lube. Wash hands thoroughly.
7. Prime cases.
8. Charge cases.
9. Seat bullets (crimp if required).

Might sound cumbersome, but I load rifle ammo in 100-round batches and usually perform only one or two of these steps at a time, completing the batch over the course of several days. Some calibers that I like to shoot a lot (like .30-06 for the M1 rifles) I will process several hundred cases at a time so I always have brass ready to just charge with powder and seat bullets.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:40 AM
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I started loading bottleneck cartridges before loading pistol cartridges and it is different, but not a big bother either. I usually do preparatory cleaning in my vibratory tumbler then lube them with RCBS Case Lube 2 on a lube pad and neck or full length size them, depending on what they are being shot in and then check OAL and trim if necessary. I then will put them in my wet tumbler with a little soap to get the primer pockets clean and remove the case lube (it's water soluble). After drying them, the cases are now ready for loading.This also gives you a chance to inspect the cases for defects while sizing and depriming them. For all my bolt action guns I mostly neck size my brass instead of full length resizing to maximize case life and minimize trimming. If you are loading for a semi-auto or lever gun though, that is pretty much out of the window as they don't have the camming action of a bolt gun and could give you feed problems.
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:00 AM
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I find rifle cases no more difficult than pistol cases. I reload .223 and .243. Don't have a tremendous problem with stretching, might have to trim after 5 or so reloads. It's the only way I can get ammo that shoots to my satisfaction.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:45 AM
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Default NO BIGGIE.

If you enjoy loading straight wall cases, bottle necks "shouldn't" be a problem. IF the gun IS NOT a semi auto, neck sizing will give you a custom fit case, & longer time between case trimming. A quick inspection & clean/lube (VERY LIGHT) of dies prior to use, keeps things running smooth for me. I too use a LIGHT spritz of H one shot, on the clean brass prior to sizing & so far (since 1980) stuck cases are almost non existent. My Winchester mdl 94 BB is a favorite, YES cases & flat nosed 220 gr bullets are harder to find (220 gr Hornady flat point interlocks) & more expensive, but once you have the brass you are good to go. Cast boolits would be a serious consideration for the 375.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:11 AM
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It's not a difficult procedure but you have to understand the process. To learn it the right way requires reading about the procedures in a couple of loading manuals.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:15 PM
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There is still data for the 25/35.
.257 Dia., Large rifle primer, max case length 2.043, trim to 2.033"

60gr to 117gr bullets, with the use of 4895, BL-C(2), H-335, H4198 powders.

Pressures listed at 38,000 CUP.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:02 PM
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Default Just some differences....

Not hard, just different. Look at a good 'how to' book. There are some things you have to watch out for. Lubing cases is essential.

Often bullet seating is done by chamfering the mouth, depending on the bullet. Crimping is different, sometimes there is no crimping.

Like mentioned before, case length is important.
It can complicate headspace, which needs to be understood in bottle neck, rimless cartridges because it's different either than rimmed or cartridges like the 9mm that headspace on the mouth of the case.

Also, rifle cartridges can fail in ways that you don't see in straight wall pistol cartridges.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:27 PM
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One of the best parts of reloading especially for rifles is that you can tailor the load for that particular gun from mild to wild.
This is even more pertinent when you can revive a firearm that is nearing or is actually obsolete. The .375 Winchester mentioned is a perfect candidate.
Trimming IS a factor in rifle cases, but it is no big deal.
Keep us posted on the adventure with a .375 and cast bullets. You are in for a hoot!!

Randy

Last edited by growr; 04-13-2018 at 08:00 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:43 PM
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I use a home made case lube of alcohol and lanolin and spray the cases inside a large zip lock bag. Then just work the cases with your hands spreading the lube. The alcohol evaporates and leaves a thin coat of lube. I use this method when doing large batches of .223/5.56 cases for my AR15 rifles.

For small batches of cases I just use my fingers to spread Hornady Unique case lube.

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Old 04-13-2018, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growr View Post
One of the best parts of reloading especially for rifles is that you can tailor the load for that particular gun from mild to wild.
This is even more pertinent when you can revive a firearm that is nearing is is actually obsolete. The .375 Winchester mentioned is a perfect candidate.
Trimming IS a factor in rifle cases, but it is no big deal.
Keep us posted on the adventure with a .375 and cast bullets. You are in for a hoot!!

Randy
You can make what you WANT instead of what you find on store shelves. I load my 30-06 from 1700 fps to over 3000 with a variety of bullets. And cast bullets start around 8 cents each.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:02 PM
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I reload 32-20s for revolvers and 7.63 Mauser for a pair of C96s then if you really want to "fiddle a little" try the Nagant 7.62 revolver cartridge with its recessed bullet and the crimp on top. After those any rifle ammo is child's play. Dave_n
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:10 AM
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Today I fully resized, prepped 200 cases for 7.62 X 39. new brass needs to prepped the first time. You have a understanding of reloading, now get your books out and read up on loading bottle neck cases.
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:25 PM
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I use Hornady Unique and remove it by dry tumbling. Works great.
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:28 AM
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I don't think reloading bottle neck rifle cartridges is a PITA. Since I pretty much just shoot cast lead in all my rifles 99% of the time the only real difference is that I have to trim the rifle cartridges on occasion but not as often as I would full power jacketed bullet loads which I hardly ever shoot.

You do have to lube the cases during resizing. and for that I use Imperial Sizing Wax, other than that it's just like reloading pistol ammo as the process is basically the same which includes flaring the case mouth to accept the cast lead bullet.

The only common caliber I reload for is 30-30, but I also reload for a Sav. 99 in 300 Sav. three SKS rifles of different origins in 7.62 x 39 and two Mosins a M44 and 91/30 in 7.62 x 54r. I enjoy much better accuracy with the X39 and 54r with my hand loads over factory ammo and shooting cast lead in those two cartridges is much more economical especially since my lead is basically free, my only real expense for making bullets is cost of molds, which most pay for themselves after a few hundred bullets and about 2.5 cents if I use a gas check.

A test group I shot in my 1933 Mosin using my Accurate 215 gr. FP bullet a few weeks ago, I'm still developing this load as I have around 8 more grains of powder to work with. I could never get consistent 5 shot groups like this with any factory or surplus ammo.

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John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 CptCurl Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 28 12-27-2012 08:25 PM
WINNER, ANCIENT-ONE!!!1000th POST KARMA ME TOO!!! Randy and I are NECK AND NECK ditrina The Lounge 72 07-27-2010 09:13 AM

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