Hi guys,
I've been reloading for decades, involved in all kinds of esoteric aspects of the game. But, this is a new one to me: resizing loaded 22lr ammo!
Apparently there's a few makers of the tools.
Here's an interesting article:

Waltz, DRock, PacoAcu’Rzr resizing dies bulk 22LR testing : Day At The Range

One of the test guns is a S&W K22, tested at 50 yds!
The results are surprising. Anyone here try this?
I can see the potential for single shot 22 target guns, in which the loaded round is pressed into the rifling. The results with more general purpose arms is impressive.

Best Regards,
Jim

A few years back I bought a two piece die. Put a 40 grain lead roundnose in, smack it like the Old Lee Loader and you have a 100 percent metplat, basically a .22 LR wadcutter.

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Certified Curmudgeon

I have seen a few people over the years take a file with a homemade tool to convert them to basically a lead wadcutter. Serious .22 LR shooters. They have shot tons more ammo than I have (which says something) but I would think you would have to be exceptional to notice the difference. Each to their own. Might just be something to tinker with.

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Rather be outdoors

I have the sizer made by Paco,it does work, at least as much as I have tested it in my guns.

I haven't. But there are .22 rifle benchrest matches and I know a few folks that are into it. Every thing it can be done to give you an edge, will be done. Resizing, optimizing the bullet tips, weighting every round, sellecting the brand and lots your rifle will perform the best... You name it. They'll do it.

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Expect the unexpected

So you would be putting a rimfire cartridge in a shell holder that holds the rim only and are pushing and pulling on the case? That would make me nervous.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

So, what could go wrong? Or what could go wrong more than once?

I actually have a tool..well case holder that you put a round into and then file it like a file trim die and make a flat nose on the loaded cartridge. They seem to shoot well. I shot a few rabbits with the filed rounds and they hit with authority.

Gotta hunt that thing down cause the wabbit crop is somewhat large this year.

That should make you nervous.

Haven't look at the others, but the Paco tools don't put
pressure on rim.

Maybe everyone else understands what happened here, but I don't.

Paco Kelly's .22 stuff has been around for 30 or years.

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S&W Accumulator

Thanks for sharing. Interesting read.

I use a waltz die and the paco tool to resize/re-shape 22lr ammo. The waltz die makes a hp bullet and a eps (eley eps nose) nosed bullet that are .225" in diameter. Most rifles with sporter chamber benefit from the larger bullet.


The paco tool makes extremely lethal hunting ammo. I use a lot of these nasty nosed bullets made with the paco tool.


I also re-size ammo down to .223" with the paco tool. The small diameter bullet tends to not only feed better/more reliable in a couple of tight chambered match pistols. The groups are tighter/more consistent.

I reload 22 lr. with cast bullets. I bought all the stuff a few years back during the 22 ammo drought.

Has anyone done the old trick of turning the empty .22lr casing into a .224 bullet for reloading .223?

This is amazing, I never even heard of this. is there any advantage in using these tools for use in a target pistol for 22 steel plate matches?

I have seen some target shooters sort their .22 ammo with rim thickness gauges. But I have never seen anyone size the bullet.

G3 Rimfire Rim Thickness Tool and Base-to-Ogive Length Gauge
G3 Rimfire Rim Thickness Tool and Base-to-Ogive Length Gauge << Daily Bulletin

Not even close. To be honest, factory match .22 will put five or ten shots into a single, smooth hole at 50 feet. CCI Standard is perhaps marginal in some guns for 1.5"/50-yard standards, ammunition like Eley Tenex clearly isn't.

Ditto for feeding. When you have a misfeed using good ammo, it's not the ammo, it's the gun. Most of the guns people wind up using for rimfire steel (Rugers, Buckmarks and the like)--well, they're not bad guns, but you can feel the difference between them and something like a match 1911-22.

And sometimes if EVERYTHING aligns perfectly, one can do this with a custom rimfire bench rifle. Even then a few rounds don't like to play nice and go off on their own. 7 shots (out of 10) in .39" at 100 yards.



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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Paco Kelly used to post quite a bit on other forums, Lever Guns and Six Guns are two that come to mind. "His" .22 sizing/forming tool was actually designed by Paco's father quite a few years ago.

There are several tools that are intended for different things, but principally changing the nose profile to make the ammunition more effective for shooting game, improved accuracy is a secondary benefit in many cases. The tools are intended for use with standard quality .22 ammunition, not to improve accuracy if used with match quality ammunition.

Here is a link to Paco's web site: http://pacotools.com/ if you are curious about how the tools work and what they are intended to do. I have no financial interest in thses products but have read most of articles on various forums in years past. I have never bought or used any of his tools but have read his srticles and numerous posts from happy customers!

I honestly have no idea how accurate bulk-box .22LR ammo is.

I don't think I've used it in...10 years? 12? Even CCI SV at the high point was like $4/50.

I was using Eley Club Extra (which became Team ammo) it has the EPS tip on the bullet. Out of my scoped Anschutz 1903 Prone Rifle (circa 1972)in a rest of medium quality, I could hit the primers in shot gun shells at 200 yards 8 or more times out of 10, That was probably the wind.

I had a friend that reworked the bedding in a surplus Kimber Government Training/target Model, that could made a block with TEN 1/8" holes an inch apart. He inserted strike anywhere matches in the holes and at 100 yards regularly light all 10 with that rifle. At 50 yards, he would light all 10, then extinguish all 10 by shooting all the black off then shoot the base of the match. There was even scoring on the boards surface.

Eley makes a batch of high grade ammo in a specific bullet configuration. It is intended to be top quality, but they test each batch and the result of that test firing determines which line it is. Only the best batches are TENEX and of TENEX one in six to ten batches is good enough for some of the best shooters. The one I know tests each lot of ammo by shooting 10 shot groups on a 25 Meter indoor range. Each group is shot at a specific torque on the action screws, this is repeated at a different setting a total of 6 times. All six groups must be 6mm or smaller to be accepted. When a suitable lot is found he buys 15,000 rounds (3 cases) of that lot, which will last for 3 years of competition.

I try to buy the lots that almost pass his testing! They are better that I can shoot!

By The Way; he doesn't measurer or modify any of that ammo! It must pass his test as it came from the box! How much ammo will pass the test? Usually one lot in Fifty (or basically, one every other year!)
He once let a common friend of ours know which lots were of that quality, the supplier had 2 cases left. He used that ammo for the season to make his last run for the National Overall Championship. A perfect score is 3000 with 300X. He came in second at 2998 which was a tie for first but lost by 1X.

The guy that developed that testing process has since passed away at 79 years old. The guy that made his run and came in second has retired form competing at the National level, and just beats us up locally! He is now 69 or 70.

To make his run for the Nationals he took the year and shot a match every weekend. (Missed 2 family funerals and 4 or 5 weddings) spent just under $8000 on travel and lodging, $4000 on ammo, $3500 on the rifle and sights. Knowing it was his last attempt, his wife gave her blessing to the time commitment and expense. After his second place finish, I ask if it was worth the cost? The response was, "Every last minute and every last dime, but now it is time to quit competition, and start training the grandkids!"

Ivan

And that is why I shoot pistols, Ivan. Hell, I know better than to even toy with the idea of buying Tenex. $14/box is just the start of that ammo's true cost:



I thought that metaphorical hole in the ice fit shooting sports perfectly. Bonus points if you know what show that's from.

When your chasing the gold, you will end up spending the gold. Whether it's time, money or both.

My Dad was a bullseye competitor with the US Army in the 50's. He attained the coveted Distinguished Pistol. It took a lot of time and being away from the family. Now, at 87 years old, he out shoots people for fun!


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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Which goes to prove MY point...if you want extreme level performance you need extreme level ammo.

Eley Tenex has won the Olympics and World Cup, and National championships more times than all others combined.
A few have been able to equal Tenex...****ssian Olymp was one and then Federal cloned Olymp and introduced UM-1 to the world of competitive shooters and it fared quite well. Sadly, now no longer manufactured.

My stash of Russian ammo is used very sparingly. Eley Tenex and Eley Black Box Match carry the load for most of my shooting in my 1813 Anschutz.

Lapua Midas Plus is doing quite well, as well as Fioochi.

The Gold medal is usually given to the shooters using Eley Tenex.

Randy

My father-in-law is a 2 time Distinguished Marksman One in 45 Bullseye with the Army and the other in Police Combat (and 2 time National Champion). From late Spring to Mid to late fall the only way the family spent any weekend time together was the family camped close to where ever the match was. My hand gun shooting improves about 50% just talking to him the day before! He's 83-84 now and probably shot with and against your dad.

When it comes to shooting, there is something in my wife's family that is genetic. Her brother set the Army record for score upon completing basic training in 1980; 298/300. It has been tied once but still stands! Her dad's father "Hunted Men" in the Teens and Twenties of last century, that man's wife was a crack shot with Colt Single Actions in 45. My wife's sister is so deadly with her M&P 9c, she throws out one inch to one and a half inch groups at 25 to 30 yards with no great effort! The next generation has 9 in it, 6 are naturals and 3 don't care! Me, with a hand gun, I might survive a shoot out. With a rifle, I have to work very hard to outshoot my sons and nephews! But I buy better guns and ammo than the can afford, so that keeps me on top.

I just couldn't find the motivation to be a competitor. So I spent about 1/10th the time practicing than a competitor would, and spent time in the woods with my family! I love to shoot Sporting Clays, 2 of my 3 sons did that with me after church until they went off to adulthood. Once in a while we would as a family do a Cowboy match. and all of us guys love Long Range. But we just don't desire a trophy case that's full. My oldest is starting his daughter on 22's this summer. She is the oldest in the 4th generation, and shows promise already. (I really hope she can teach the boys on the base, That she's not just a pretty face!)

Ivan

Not really that much difference. Several years ago, I did a test at 50 yards using my Winchester 52B and a Unertl 12X scope from a bench rest. I don't have the numbers, but bulk pack Remington Golden Bullet and Federal HP grouped very nearly as well as Western Super Match Mark III (old stuff) and CCI Standard Velocity (10 shot groups). Back during my much younger days when I was a competitive rifle shooter (on my college's rifle team) using that same rifle, I found that plain CCI standard velocity LR shot the best for me, even in comparison to both Eley and Western Super Match. I remember another very good .22 round I used was Lapua, but it was more difficult to come by. I still have a few boxes of it. I think it had a copper case rather than brass, at least a very coppery color.

There was a feature article in one of the older editions of Gun Digest about an extensive grouping test of about every brand and type of .22 LR ammunition available in several different rifles and handguns. As I remember, there were several "ordinary" .22 types that shot groups at least as well as .22 Target ammunition. I'll see if I can find it and cite the source.
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The GD article I referred to above was in the 2003 edition (#57) of Gun Digest, titled "Practical Accuracy of .22 LR Ammunition" by Mike Thomas. Overall, Winchester 40 grain HV came out on top for both rifles and handguns at 50 yards for rifles and at 25 yards for handguns, although individual rifles and handguns had different types and brands with which they grouped the best.

Smacking a rimfire like the old Lee loader.....that would make me nervous.
The occasional primer going off was one thing... but a loaded round going off would be ....very interesting !

How does this die work , I mean how does it work without setting off the rimfire priming ?
Gary

I have and use a Paco Kelly Acu'rzr. I can take bulk 22 lr ammo and reduce group size by a minimum of 25%. I have 2 good 22 rifles, one scoped Ruger MkII and one excellent Contender 22 lr. and I get excellent results in all. IIRC, I got plain Blazer to group around 1" at 40 yds with my Marlin, about the same mebbe slightly smaller in my Contender, my 10-22 will shoot bulk Federal into 1 1/4" easily. All ammo run through the Acu'rzr...

Be aware that the Acu'rzr can be ordered with different size dies and bullets resized for one gun may not chamber in another. Case in point: The Old Model Ruger Single Sixes were bored straight through from one end of the cylinder to the other. There is no "ball seat" (I believe that is what it is called anyway) or "throat" to speak of. You can literally take a round of .22 LR and stick it in the front of the cylinder all the way to the rim just as easily as you can from the rear. My chambers measure .226" in one gun and .227" in another. Other .22 revolvers I have from Colt & S&W have throats that measure from .223" to .225" and will not chamber cartridges resized for the Rugers. I guess Old Man Ruger was too cheap to purchase actual chambering reamers and just used drills of the right diameter to allow an average .22 LR to insert fully and didn't care what size the business end of the chambers were.

Yes.

I have also made 25 ACP bullets out of fired shotgun primer cups and #3 buckshot.

I regard both as interesting, but otherwise pointless, academic exercises. As long as there are companies making commercial bullets, buying factory bullets is going to be far more cost effective than making bullet jackets out spent 22LR cases. And if the time comes when there is nobody making commercial bullets any longer, the situation with the country is going to be so bad that the rigors of getting "enough" to live something more than a "Fourth World" existence is going to be so all-consuming that nobody is going to have time to make their own jacketed bullets.

I too made bullets from 22 cases. Bought a Rock Chuck Bullet Swage press and dies when I was 11 YO. I could not find bullets to load in my 22 Hornet in those days. But since the late 60s bullets have been available so I no longer use the dies.. I also found out when I got my first Swift and the 22 Varminter...the bullets could not handle the high rotation or velocity together. nMaking bullets is an exercise that requires a lot of work...fine for a young'un that seems to have plenty of that available..

I burn piles of them every year. What I save by making my own bullets pays for the powder.

I can remember Paco Kelly's tool, is this what you're talking about?
Steve

I don't know who made this thing. It is like a file trim die. Put a round(LR only) in the die and then file the end of the bullet off to a flat wadcutter shape. The ammo shoots well and when you hit something with it, it certainly has a real smack sound to it. I have used it extensively on rabbits here and it dispatches them very well. Esp better than round nose solid 22s

Steel 028, sounds a lot like Paco's. Does any of this look familiar?
Pacotools - Tool discriptions
Steve

The ATS tool is somewhat like what I have only prettier...and it is made to file with. That thing is pretty...but really expensive. Mine came in a box of stuff from a gun show that cost 5 bucks...I bought it cause it had a 358 156 Lyman GC mold in it. The color of mine is a uniform gray.

While looking for something else tonight out in the grudge...where some folks can park their car... I happened to find the user manual for the tool....called the 22-SGB Tool made in 22 short 22 LR and for the 22 mag also. Sold by The Hanned Line from Cupertino Ca

I still have one of the rim fire ‘rim’ measurement gauges from Bullseye shooting days. Hand held instrument, slide each cartridge into the case holder, measure the rim thickness via an attached dial gauge. They actually work. The idea is consistency, sort bullets into like/same lots. You would be surprised at the range of variance within each box. This measurement is one of the primary factors you pay for with the high end target .22’s. The sorted groups were much tighter and had fewer flyers when you did your part...this of course was back in the day when I could actually see the sights and the target.

Here's a good thread with a show & tell discussion on 3 of the 22LR resizer type kits/dies at the time (mid 2017).
Good pics and info.

The idea is to bump up the bullet dia to a very specific size to match your firearm for best performance. At the same time the bullet shape can be altered to most anything you want.

bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/accurizing-22-rimfire-ammunition-do-the-bullet-modifications-really-work.198039/



These don't resize the brass at all.
There are FL resizing dies avail though for those that reload the 22LR and 22MAG.

>
>
..deleted info about the rim thickness gauges,,I see Engieman and bigedp51 covered that already.

This is a bullet nose mod that seems promising. I'm doing some evaluations as time permits.

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I'm with her