Reloading 460 Problems

[cladd1]

Need some advice on first time reloading for my 460 S&W. I have reloaded for rifles and handgun 9mm and 45ACP without any issues. Just today I tried to reload for my 460 and am having some problems. I an using RCBS dies and have resized factory cases, flared and primed them. I am using Hornady 240 grain XTP MAG bullets. Per the RCBS instruction I completed the following;

* place primed, charged case in press and run to top of stroke
* screw seater die in until it touches case mouth
* back die up 1 turn and set lock ring
* unscrew seater plug several turns
* lower case and insert bullet
* run case/bullet into seater die
* adjust seater plug until proper depth is obtained (used 2.18 OAL)
* next adjust die body to crimp
* with cartridge still in seater die unscrew seater plug several turns
* screw seater die down until it touches case mouth
* lower cartridge down and adjust die down 1/8 turn
* check crimp - crimp was OK
* set die lock ring
* run cartridge into seater die and lower seater plug until it touches bullet

After following this procedure the cartridge looked fine - so far so good. I'm thinking now I have the die set to seat bullet and crimp in one step. I then charge another case, insert a bullet and attempt to load a new round. The press handle then stops before I have seated/crimped the bullet. I then press harder on the handle and the cartridge enters the die. I raise the handle and the case is crushed on one side and the bullet is stuck in the seater die!! I then started over with the entire process and was able to load a round OK. I then attempted with the lock ring set for seating/crimping to load another round. The same thing happened again the press handle stopped cold before cartridge was seated in die. This time I didn't try and force the cartridge into the die. Obviously I don't have something set right.

Ideas welcome!! I'm certain it a simple step I'm screwing up on.

Thanks!

[cmj8591]

Try a bit more flare on the case mouth. The other thing I do with 500's and everything I'm going to crimp heavy is to crimp separately from seating the bullet. It seems to give me better results and I don't end up with bulged cases. Another idea is to get a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I've had good luck with them in several calibers.

[DonD]

I do what CMJ does with regard to seating then crimping on my 500 Mag loads. Supposedly, this isn't necessary but my experience suggests that theory and reality are not the same in this instance. Don

[iouri]

I don't like seating and crimping with same die. I also have RCBS set for 460 but I've added 45 Colt to crimp (I use slow powders and heavy crimp). For 500 I've just bought Redding profile crimp die - no more shaving lead bullets.

[AmStaff64]

You have loaded rifle and taper crimp pistol - roll crimp a tad different.

I own both 460 & 500 - I seat and crimp separately. It makes things much easier(more forgiving).

If the stars align you can do both together - but checking case length, which impact flare amount and crimp - not worth the overhead.

[cladd1]

Sounds like a good idea to purchase a die just for crimping - any suggestions on which one to buy?

Thanks

[biquer]

I've used Redding and Dillon crimp dies on the Dillon 550 for quite a long time. Both highly recommended.

Others seem to like Lee crimp dies.
Take your pick.

[Alk8944]

While seat and crimp in 2 steps is a good idea the answer to your problem is simply flare the cases a bit more, until the bullet can be just set in the flare.

[Imissedagain]

We always seat and crimp, any style, in two steps.
Set your flare properly as stated.
We trim cases, new or reloading, on all adult calibers!!!

Debating ordering a 460 Snubby or another Colt rifle and 458 upper...... which one first . .....as we don’t live forever but will try and have as much fun as possible until then..... or make a 460 upper???

There are times when a big bore is wise.

[twodog max]

I have been reloading for 50 years and always seat and crimp in one step. I have never trimmed a straight wall pistol case. I do not have problems with case crushing or bullet crimp. I have loaded and shot untold thousands of heavy loaded 44 magnum and many 45 Colt and 357 magnums without problems. While seating and crimping separately is OK if you if that is what you want to do IMO it is unnecessary.

[nipperdog]

I also Just Started to Load for My 460. I fired up 40rds of Federal Factory Ammo, and using Lee 460 Dies Resized, and Belled the Cases, and Loaded H110 behind a Hornady 300grain XTP Mag Bullet. I did not set the Seater Die to Crimp, but instead used the Lee 460 Factory Crimp Die. Loading was normal, and I did not destroy any Cases. Neck tension felt good too. I'm going to the Range on Tuesday and will see how they shoot. I have been using the Lee Factory Crimp 45 Colt Die on my 454 Casull for a while and it works very well with heavy Loads

[ruggyh]

Originally Posted by twodog max

I have been reloading for 50 years and always seat and crimp in one step. I have never trimmed a straight wall pistol case. I do not have problems with case crushing or bullet crimp. I have loaded and shot untold thousands of heavy loaded 44 magnum and many 45 Colt and 357 magnums without problems. While seating and crimping separately is OK if you if that is what you want to do IMO it is unnecessary.

Hollar when your 44 operates at 55KPSI, then you can tell us about case length changes

Things are different when it comes to the "super magnums"- 454 Casul, 460 S&W, 500 S&W and even the 500 JRH

Trim your cases if you want a consistent crimp with these calibers.
As others have stated you can do it in one step but it is much easier to do it in two - there is a reason die manufactures make separate dies.

be safe
Ruggy

[argon18smith]

Similar problem only I gave up early. I could never get a good crimp with the seating/crimping die anyway. Used the factory crimp die because you really need a good crimp to stop bullet jump and that was with 230-240 grn projectiles with light loads. I have ordered some jacketed 300 grn projectiles and I can't wait to load them up. I am trying for 200 yard targeting. I never flare the cases either and all works well.

[MichiganScott]

I use a Redding Profile Crimp dies when loading heavy bullet .44 Mags. I usually seat and crimp at the same time when loading everything else.

From the OP's description of what's happening, I wonder if his dies are not beginning to fold the crimp in while the case mouth is below the cannelure. You can't roll crimp a cartridge into the side of a bullet.

[Imissedagain]

Originally Posted by ruggyh

Hollar when your 44 operates at 55KPSI, then you can tell us about case length changes

Things are different when it comes to the "super magnums"- 454 Casul, 460 S&W, 500 S&W and even the 500 JRH

Trim your cases if you want a consistent crimp with these calibers.
As others have stated you can do it in one step but it is much easier to do it in two - there is a reason die manufactures make separate dies.

be safe
Ruggy

The truth be told ^^^ Produce the best ammo you can... why else would anyone reload!

Would be nice to be shooting a 460 Snubby today.... or knowing where the best place/price to get one happens to be ....
Happy Fathers Day

[cladd1]

I am planning on purchasing another die to crimp with however I observed something interesting with my expanding die. The expanding die that came with my RCBS 460 (3) die set has "454 Casull" stamped on it. Is this normal? I would think it should read 460. I know one can shoot 454 rounds through the 460 so I assume this is the correct expander?

[ruggyh]

Originally Posted by cladd1

... The expanding die that came with my RCBS 460 (3) die set has "454 Casull" stamped on it. Is this normal? I would think it should read 460. I know one can shoot 454 rounds through the 460 so I assume this is the correct expander?

Is not an issue - same size

be safe
Ruggy

[iouri]

45 Schofield, 45 LC, 454 Casull, 460 SW - same diameter bullet; so expanding die for any of those calibers would work.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by cladd1

Sounds like a good idea to purchase a die just for crimping - any suggestions on which one to buy?

Thanks

No need to buy another die unless you are reloading on a progressive and have an open station. Just adjust the die(seat/crimp die) to seat the bullet to the center of the cannelure and then when you have seated all your bullets, unscrew the seating stem a few turns back and then adjust the die for proper crimp. This is how I do it when I seat/crimp in two steps with my RCBS dies.

Iffin I read your first post correctly, from what it sounds like, you are buckling your cases before the dies comes down far enough to crimp.......and I quote, "The press handle then stops before I have seated/crimped the bullet. I then press harder on the handle and the cartridge enters the die. I raise the handle and the case is crushed on one side and the bullet is stuck in the seater die!". This tells me, that you are either flaring too much and the crimp ring is getting hung up on the case mouth and buckling the case on it's way down, or you are not flaring enough and the bullet is buckling the case mouth, because is is not getting started completely inside the case mouth. You should be able to decipher which it is by how far the ram lowers before the resistance is felt.

While I have seated and crimped in one step for many years in all my other handgun calibers, when it comes to heavy loads for the .460, I generally do it in two. It comes down to with the amount of heavy crimp one is applying the bullet is still moving downward being pushed by the seater stem when the crimp ring has already begun to crimp. With the long case of of the .460, it's easy for the case to buckle just a smidgen with the last 1/16 of a inch of travel. If you read the directions that came with your dies, you will see RCBS actually suggests crimping itself, in two steps for the really big boomers like .450 and .500. Many times I seat and slightly crimp in the first step and then finish the heavy crimp in a second step. For lighter loads with the .460, I crimp and seat in one step and have no issues.

Originally Posted by ruggyh

Hollar when your 44 operates at 55KPSI, then you can tell us about case length changes

Things are different when it comes to the "super magnums"- 454 Casul, 460 S&W, 500 S&W and even the 500 JRH

^^^....yep. I suggest folks don't take suggestions about reloading for the .460 from folks, unless those folks have actually reloaded for it. It ain't your sisters .44. [ruggyh knows what he is talkin' about, especially when it comes to consistent heavy crimps. Only way to do it with cases as long as the .460 is to trim them or at least measure them all and then sort them to length. Then your flare will be consistent and so will be the heavy crimp and you won't buckle a case because it's short and you didn't get enough flare on it or because the case was a few thousandths longer than the case you set up the die on and it buckles the case because you are crimping before the bullet is seated. Smaller diameter and shorter cases that use less crimp are more forgiving if and when case length varies a titch.........not so with the .460. It's a different animal. Another good reason for trimming cases is to get more consistent crimps is a increase in accuracy from those slow burning powders used. Consistent crimps mean consistent ignition and burn, and this means better accuracy. Again, maybe not so noticeable shooting a .357 or .44 at 25 yards, but when shooting the .460 @ 150, it will and does make a difference.

[cladd1]

Thanks for all the tips - plan on today working on loading some more.

[cladd1]

Update - I don't believe I was flaring the case mouth sufficiently so I repeated this step. The RCBS instructions state to turn the expander down to where it touches the case then 1/2 turn more. I did this and the bullet would not even begin to "snap in". I ultimately had to take it down almost 4 full turns before the base of the bullet would just begin to enter the case. Seems like too much however it finally seemed to work. I then adjusted the die per instructions for a proper crimp. I then loaded 2 rounds and they seated/crimped just right. Hooray I thought I've got it! Third round press handle stopped like before - I applied additional pressure and crunch the case crumpled on one side. I had changed nothing between 2nd and 3rd round.

If I adjust the die to just seat the bullet and not crimp all is well. It's when I try and seat and crimp things mess up. In one of the posts it mentioned "it's trying to crimp before the bullet is fully seated". I believe that's where my problem is.

I'm going to follow the suggestion from the last post - seat my rounds to proper length. Then go back and adjust the die to crimp the round only.

Observation - roll crimping is a different animal ( :

[Confederate Tyrant]

It does sound like the case is crimping before the bullet is fully seated.

Are you using any once-fired Hornady brass? If so, are those brass noticeably shorter than your other brass?

Not sure if they do it with the .460 but the .44 Magnum and .45-70 brass (probably others too) from Hornady FTX factory loads are shorter.

[3rdgeargrndrr]

Just Get the Hornady bullet seater die and use the RCBS for crimping.
I can't understand why you are having so many problems with this load without direct observation. You are losing money on destroyed cases