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Old 05-14-2018, 06:34 PM
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I found an interview where the Great One says:

"PMC 230-grain ball and PMC cases loaded with American Select... .45 was loaded to IDPA revolver minimums, which were a 120 power factor, and it is also legal for IRC competition. "

Link for context:
Interview with Jerry Miculek after he set three world revolver records, Part 2. - Free Online Library

So, if I understand PF, that means he was loading a 230gr bullet at ~520fps to make 120 pf?

If so, I didn't know you could load a 45 ACP that light. I'd be worried about getting a bullet stuck in the barrel of the 4-5" barrel guns he competes with.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:03 PM
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Wayne Gretzky is a handloader?! Who knew!

Anyway, I sure hope that is a lead bullet. I believe it's totally nuts to try and send a jacketed bullet anywhere under 750ft/sec and lord, if you are talking about a revolver with a flash gap (that bleeds much needed, critical pressure) seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:26 PM
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All speed shooters load as lite as load as possible. I once raced a friend mine double action against his 1911 six in mine six in his. My load in 38 cases was running around 920fps 158 SWC. His a 200 SWC. I was done before his last case even came close to hitting the ground. He couldn't believe he got smoked. He still tells people at work and the club he lost.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:33 PM
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I always thought that Jerry shot the "Blue Box" ammo at all his shoots.......
since they are his ammo Sponsors !!
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. mordo View Post
I found an interview where the Great One says:

"PMC 230-grain ball and PMC cases loaded with American Select... .45 was loaded to IDPA revolver minimums, which were a 120 power factor, and it is also legal for IRC competition. "

Link for context:
Interview with Jerry Miculek after he set three world revolver records, Part 2. - Free Online Library

So, if I understand PF, that means he was loading a 230gr bullet at ~520fps to make 120 pf?

Well, I think the interviewer got it wrong on the IDPA comparison references, either for the previous or present IDPA requirements. Presently, the IDPA minimum for Enhanced Revolver (ESR) (load with moon clips) is PF 155, which also is more than enough for ICORE's PF 120.
My Mod 66 using speed loaders in .38 spl only requires PF 105 for stock service revolver (SSR). Now both are combined into one Revolver Division for IDPA.


When they were separate IDPA divisions, ESR was PF 165 and SSR was PF 125.


Since IDPA rules were irrelevant to the record, the IDPA reference is irrelevant, inaccurate, and should not have been thrown in anyway.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Well, I think the interviewer got it wrong on the IDPA comparison references, either for the previous or present IDPA requirements. Presently, the IDPA minimum for Enhanced Revolver (ESR) (load with moon clips) is PF 155, which also is more than enough for ICORE's PF 120.
My Mod 66 using speed loaders in .38 spl only requires PF 105 for stock service revolver (SSR). Now both are combined into one Revolver Division for IDPA.


When they were separate IDPA divisions, ESR was PF 165 and SSR was PF 125.


Since IDPA rules were irrelevant to the record, the IDPA reference is irrelevant, inaccurate, and should not have been thrown in anyway..
That was Jerry, not the interviewer who said 120 PF was all that was required.

Note that the interview was from 1999-2000. Have the standards changed since then? To make a 155 PF, 230 gr would have to get up to 675 fps, which is still pretty tame but much more reasonable than 520 fps.

Last edited by dr. mordo; 05-14-2018 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dr. mordo View Post
Note that the interview was from 1999-2000. Have the standards changed since then? To make a 155 PF, 230 gr would have to get up to 675 fps, which is still pretty tame but much more reasonable than 520 fps.
In 2000, the IDPA requirement for clip-loaded revolvers was PF 165 (ESP), and PF 125 with speedloaders (SSP). I repeat, just remove the reference to IDPA rules, since the reference is wrong, and irrelevant anyway.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:29 PM
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Nosler data lists several starting loads for 45ACP that are under 700 fps from a 5" barrel.

With the Nosler 185HP and their recommended starting charge of 4.4 grains of Bullseye I clock 685 fps from my 3" 625. It's the most accurate load of the 16 powders I tried.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:49 PM
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Default I'm not advocating doing anything silly......

Like stick a bullet in your barrel but as long as they shoot consistently and they reach that muzzle velocity, they probably won't. 520 fps is very slow for a firearm projectile but it's fast enough. An arrow goes 350 fps. Paintballs go 300 fps. The slowest pellet guns do about the same.

You probably won't even get near to sticking a bullet in the barrel as long as your 1911 functions.

I'd have no problem with a .38 at about 600 fps. Using a powder that burns well under light loads, I'd drop the charge back until the pistol quits functioning (making darn sure that all the bullets hit the target solidly) then add a little more in to optimize what you want.

I had good luck using Acc#7 and a 147 grain bullet at very low levels in 9mm Luger which shot so well, I was sure that I could drop the charge more if I wanted. And the most accurate target load I've ever built.

So my story is to feel free to decrease loads AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T EVEN CLOSE to sticking a bullet in the barrel by checking the target EACH shot. And if it's not consistent, it's too much. I'm going to differ with conventional wisdom here. Jacketed bullets these days are bonded to the core and have enough jacket on the ogive to keep a bullet from shedding its jacket in the barrel. Here, though, you have to be very careful that you use bullets that aren't going to come apart and be very careful that somehow a jacket doesn't get left behind in your barrel. No old jacketed bullets and no 'half jacketed either. I'd use a dowel to check until you are sure you can depend on them. And stay with the same bullets.

Safety is primary. And if you push the bounds it needs to be more than primary.

PS. The light charges are not in danger of 'detonating'. Experts agree that kabooms caused by low powder charges are from firing a shot AFTER a bullet is stuck in the barrel. Not from the powder charge.

PPS. I would weigh each charge in this situation.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:22 PM
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I think Jerry may have been misquoted or simply mistaken in what he said. I've been called out by a range master at a steel challenge match for running lead 38 Specials at less than 750 fps. His point was the lead bullet should atomize rather than fly off the steel in chunks. He was right about my ammo which was old extremely MILD PPC ammo. PPC shooters were not into manly recoil.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&WIowegan View Post
I think Jerry may have been misquoted or simply mistaken in what he said. I've been called out by a range master at a steel challenge match for running lead 38 Specials at less than 750 fps. His point was the lead bullet should atomize rather than fly off the steel in chunks. He was right about my ammo which was old extremely MILD PPC ammo. PPC shooters were not into manly recoil.


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Old 05-16-2018, 11:57 AM
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Bowling Pin with a Periscope.... ?? !!

Who's inside?
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
In 2000, the IDPA requirement for clip-loaded revolvers was PF 165 (ESP), and PF 125 with speedloaders (SSP). I repeat, just remove the reference to IDPA rules, since the reference is wrong, and irrelevant anyway.
That was 2000, it has since changed to 155 & 105.
Sticking a bullet in the bbl is more a rifle thing, think CAS, than a pistol thing. Even with fmj, it doesn't take much to clear the bbl. Though I would not, do not run jacketed in a handgun lees than 700fps.
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