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Old 05-21-2018, 06:31 PM
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Default 38/357 Load + COL + Starline Brass

I'm used to reloading for semi-auto pistols but have my new to me 686 now to load for. I generally tend towards loading COL longer so long as it cycle properly, doesn't engage rifling prematurely, etc. if making a load for a specific gun.

However, wheel guns are be a different beast.

I'm going to be using Starline 357 mag brass and Berry's Preferred 158grn FP Plated @ .358. Intended powder is Titegroup, but have CFE Pistol, Unique and AA# 2. The goal is a target load that's slightly more stout than 38 special pressure to practice getting sight picture after a shot break, but no current intentions of full house 357 loads.

I'm thinking to start with 4.3 grains Titegroup, which is Hodgdon published for Hornady XTP (albeit, these a JHPs) as a .38 spl +P load, in a 38 case. Hodgdon lists max load of 6.1 grains for 357 loads for the same projectile/power, in 357 cases so have plenty of margin (except for double charges of course).

Some questions:

- This Starline brass reminds me of military 9mm. It's ungodly thick. It's a tough push through the resizing die (sizing the new brass so it's the same dimensions when once fired and sized) and seems to get stuck on my powder through expanding die every time. Once + fired range 357 brass of other headstamps doesn't have this issue. I'm barely belling enough to seat the bullet without it falling. It's a tough flare and a tough drive to seat the bullet than I'm used to. However, I pulled the bullets on some samples and didn't see any copper being shaved down to lead. Is Starline known to be this stiff? It's not much better skipping the sizing. I'm thinking the slightly oversized .358 projectiles might not be the best fit for this brass.

- What's the general trend for COL in 357 revolvers for consistent velocity and accuracy? Should the cartridges be loaded long COL to minimize the throat jump (obviously not long enough to bind the cylinder or prevent the round from seating headspacing against the rim), or since the bullet will be swaged slightly by the throat anyway, is it better to seat deeper and get more neck tension for better powder starts? The 158 grn FPs seem to get a decent amount of surface area even when loaded to just ~.004 below cylinder face

- Titegroup is known to be hot burning, is there a non-negligible concern with premature erosion of the forcing cone/top strap enough to warrant NOT using TG in this application?
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:58 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Your Hornaday manual will list an OAL for cartridges, use that, or something close to it. I'm using 1.400" for Berry 158 gr THPs in .38 Spl brass. Taper crimp at that length. If you don't have a taper crimp die, seat the shoulder of the bullet inside the case mouth and roll crimp over the shoulder. RCBS has separate roll & taper crimp dies if you need them. Having one of each is handy.

Given the distance between bullet nose & rifling, playing with cartridge length to try to increase accuracy is a waste of time & effort. Your wibbles & wobbles will have more affect on groups. The other consideration is that seating the bullet long increases case capacity, lowering velocities. [I use the OAL listed above because it gives me better velocities and less variation than the book 1.450".]

You don't mention your brand of dies. RCBS & Lyman use an M die profile on the expander ball. This provides a shoulder on the expander to increase the expansion enough to allow the bullet to be an easy fit into the case. You adjust this shoulder to go about 1/32" into the case. If you don't have either brand of die, the Lyman M die is available separately (Grafs & Son or direct from Lyman products).

There have been a couple of threads about Tite Group, you might want to do a search.

Last edited by WR Moore; 05-22-2018 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:27 PM
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I'm using Berry's Plated. The mention of the HDY XTPs was just Hodgdon's reference point. Berry's doesn't publish data.

I'm using a Lee 4 die set with factory crimp die. This does a roll crimp which appears to be the consensus crimp type for plated. I adjusted the die so it leaves a minor indentation when the bullet is pulled.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:51 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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My bad, forgot to put Berry in on my bullet, took care of that.

I've been using taper crimp on plated bullets. Works for me. As I change bullets depending upon use, I have both crimping types, also save fiddling with adjustments.

No experience with Lee dies, if your expander doesn't have the shoulder I noted, you might want to try one with it.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:18 PM
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COL for 38 Special or 357 Magnum..................

put the crimp into the bullet's cannelure!!
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:19 PM
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COL for 38 Special or 357 Magnum..................

put the crimp into the bullet's cannelure!!
No cannelure on plated bullets that I've ever come across.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:27 PM
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I load my 686 with 4.3 grains of 231, Starline Brass, 158 SNS SWC Coated Bullet (.358) at an OAL of 1.610. I use LEE dies. This is a very accurate and mild load.

Starline brass for the first load is stiff mainly on belling the case mouth. I make sure before I load them the first time I lightly chamfer the case mouth and run them through my media tumbler with used media to dirty them up a bit. I think the brass is just too clean. This seems to help but still bit stiffer than once they are fired the first time but it’s doable. No problems after that. The inside of the case after the first firing is nice and black and acts as a lube for belling. Bullets are not shaved.

I can get a lot of reloads from my Starline Brass. It’s good stuff.

Last edited by cds43016; 05-21-2018 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cds43016 View Post
I load my 686 with 4.3 grains of 231, Starline Brass, 158 SNS SWC Coated Bullet (.358) at an OAL of 1.610. I use LEE dies. This is a very accurate and mild load.

Starline brass for the first load is stiff mainly on belling the case mouth. I make sure before I load them the first time I lightly chamfer the case mouth and run them through my media tumbler with used media to dirty them up a bit. I think the brass is just too clean. This seems to help but still bit stiffer than once they are fired the first time but itís doable. No problems after that. The inside of the case after the first firing is nice and black and acts as a lube for belling. Bullets are not shaved.

I can get a lot of reloads from my Starline Brass. Itís good stuff.
That's a good point. I've never bought unprimed brass before this and my cases have always had some walnut dust on them prior to sizing/flaring/seating.

I've read of similar issues being present in wet tumbled brass vs dry for that reason.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:42 PM
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Starline is good brass. With new brass, I do a light chamfer of the case mouth, then give it an hour in the tumbler with used media to get it lubed up a little. Solves the sticking problem with the Lee expander die, at least for me.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 86ed View Post
No cannelure on plated bullets that I've ever come across.
Some do have a shallow cannelure. Xtreme Bullets makes them for instance. I have good results using xtp data and oal with flat nosed under 12-1300fps and at the light magnum loading you are looking at that should be fine.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:35 PM
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No cannelure on plated bullets that I've ever come across.
X-treme's plated bullets for 38/357 come with cannelures. <<<X-treme>>>

And for some decent jacketed bullets for good prices I recommend Zero brand bullets. You can buy them from Roze Distribution. <<<Zero Bullets>>>
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:37 PM
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(1) The brass is hard to resize and expand because it's factory new. Lube every 5th or 7th case. You may also trim/chamfer/deburr the new cases, if you have the equipment to do that.

(2) Throat jump doesn't matter a whole ton. Load to whatever length makes you happiest.

(3) Premature throat and topstrap erosion doesn't happen because one powder is "hotter" than another. It happens through the use of extremely slow-burning ball-type powders. Titegroup is not one of these.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:55 PM
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Starline is HARD. During the shortages when they were making only a little .357 I got some cases from them and it was like trying to resize diamonds. They were even worse than usual.

Nice thing about revolver cartridges that are based on old black powder cartridges is that COL isn't nearly as critical as in a small case like 9mm, 10mm, .40 cas

If the bullet has a crimp groove, all the better., just use that. Seating deeper doesn't help because a revolver cartridge is held by the roll crimp, unlike a straight wall semi that is held by neck tension with a taper crimp. I believe that XTPs have a groove.

With the light loads you propose, I'd suggest a light roll crimp. Moderate loads take a slightly heavier crimp. Using slow magnum powders like h110/win 296 people generally advise a heavy crimp to get a good burn started before the bullet leaves the case.

Are you sure you want to shoot targets with slow moving XTPs? If you are rolling in dough, go ahead, but for plinking and target I use much less expensive bullets than defense style.

Plated bullets are ok to about 1200 fps. Heavy plated plated bullets are almost like jacketed

For the best accuracy I use .38 HBSWC swaged bullets. Grease in groove lube for harder bullets is ok.

I mostly shoot polymer coated bullets, mostly Hi-Tek coated that cost about 8 cents each.
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Last edited by rwsmith; 05-21-2018 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:12 PM
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86ed View Post
I'm using Berry's Plated. The mention of the HDY XTPs was just Hodgdon's reference point. Berry's doesn't publish data.

I'm using a Lee 4 die set with factory crimp die. This does a roll crimp which appears to be the consensus crimp type for plated. I adjusted the die so it leaves a minor indentation when the bullet is pulled.
Reading your original post I would have guessed Lee dies by the comment on the expander button on the powder dispensing die sticking.

I use Lee pistol dies almost exclusively for pistol cartridges and Starline brass from new (but with range pickups when shooting competitions I end up with a lot of mixed brass) and yes, case mouths sticking in the powder die is common with Starline for me. And not just on the first loading either.

It even happens after case tumbling.

My solution is to spray lube the cases. Pistol cases loaded with carbide dies do not need lube but it works. My LGS has their own proprietary case lube using an alcohol base for dispersal in a spray bottle but any good spray on case lube should work.

Keep the coating light though. I generally only use a max of two short sprays per 200 - 300 cases.

You may find your powder charge a bit light. I use 4.2 gn Tightgroup under a 148 gn HBWC in my 6” 686-4. Hodgson lists this as a +P load with a max 4.4 gn at 980 fps, and while I can’t offhand remember the velocity it is lower than Hodgson lists (most of their loads are a bit optimistic in my experience). I load for a minimum 120 PF with an additional 8-10 PF as a safety margin so it is probably in the 850-900 fps range. In a .357 Magnum case velocity will be a fair bit lower again.

And Starline brass will last for years. I loaded an original 500 cases for almost 20 years to +P pressures before I bought some more to replace those that were splitting.

Last edited by Kiwi cop; 05-21-2018 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:08 AM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
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Kiwi--Whenever I bust out a new "lot" of .44 brass from my giant box of Starline, I spritz a little case lube (regular wet spray, non-aerosol) on a paper towel, and then wipe five or six cases out of 50 with the lube'd towel. I let the cases dry, and use one for the first round. When the press starts slowing, I use another lube'd case. Generally I have a couple left over when I'm done with the box.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:09 AM
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i reload 357 magnum using only Starline brass and Berry's 158gr FMJ-FP bullets. I use a Hornady Lock N Load classic single stage press, RCBS 3 piece die and a Dillon factory crimp die. I get all my data from my Hornady 9th edition manual and stay within the load parameters listed.

I highly suggest H110 for use with 357 Magnum. That has been my powder of choice lately and I've been real happy with the results. I also use Winchester small pistol magnum primers, or WSPM for short. When using the dies for the brass. Adjust the expander die until you can push the bullet in without having it fall out but not to the point where the case mouth looks like a trumpet either. You want it so the bullet can be pushed into the case a couple mm's. I don't use the crimp in the seating die. I insert a empty sized case and adjust the die until it just touches the case then back off 1 full turn then lock it down. I use my Dillon crimp die for that.

The recipe I like is as of follows:

13.9gr H110

Hornady 158gr XTP OR Berry's 158gr FMJ-FP

Winchester small pistol magnum primer

COL of 1.590"

The revolver I use is a 4" model 686-6. I use these loads for bowling pin matches. As far as "flame cutting". No. There will always be some kind of mark above the forcing cone from shooting magnum loads but that is normal. I think, and I'm not sure but I think the 125gr 357 magnum loads are the real hot ones that can cause flame cutting. the heavier bullets not so much.

From the Hodgdon page.


158gr Hornady XTP

Starting load of Titegroup is 5.4gr - max 6.1gr.

COL is 1.580"

Keep in mind that a cartridge overall length is not going to be the same for every bullet weight and powder brand/charge. Those COL have been tested with those specific powders/charges and it is wise to stay within those exact lengths for that given bullet & powder.

Now if you really want to use titegroup, if it was me, I'd start with 5.5grs. I think you'd be fine at 5.5 grs since there's only a spread of 94fps between the starting load and max load.

Word of extreme caution!!!
5.5gr of Titegroup is gonna be at the bottom of the case and if you accidentally double charge a case, it might be difficult to tell the difference between a double charge and normal charge. This is another reason why I suggest using H110 or similar, I also like using Blue Dot for 357 magnum. If I try to double charge 13.9 gr of H110 the case will overflow. 14gr of H110 will fill a 357 magnum case about 2/3rds full. Real easy to tell if there's powder in the case and a accidental double charge is a no-brainer.

Last edited by RGVshooter; 05-22-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Starline is HARD. During the shortages when they were making only a little .357 I got some cases from them and it was like trying to resize diamonds. They were even worse than usual.

Nice thing about revolver cartridges that are based on old black powder cartridges is that COL isn't nearly as critical as in a small case like 9mm, 10mm, .40 cas

If the bullet has a crimp groove, all the better., just use that. Seating deeper doesn't help because a revolver cartridge is held by the roll crimp, unlike a straight wall semi that is held by neck tension with a taper crimp. I believe that XTPs have a groove.

With the light loads you propose, I'd suggest a light roll crimp. Moderate loads take a slightly heavier crimp. Using slow magnum powders like h110/win 296 people generally advise a heavy crimp to get a good burn started before the bullet leaves the case.

Are you sure you want to shoot targets with slow moving XTPs? If you are rolling in dough, go ahead, but for plinking and target I use much less expensive bullets than defense style.

Plated bullets are ok to about 1200 fps. Heavy plated plated bullets are almost like jacketed

For the best accuracy I use .38 HBSWC swaged bullets. Grease in groove lube for harder bullets is ok.

I mostly shoot polymer coated bullets, mostly Hi-Tek coated that cost about 8 cents each.
Where do I find some swaged HB-SWCs?
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:20 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Hornaday and Speer make swaged HBWCs. Grafs has the Hornadays in stock.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
(1) The brass is hard to resize and expand because it's factory new. Lube every 5th or 7th case. You may also trim/chamfer/deburr the new cases, if you have the equipment to do that.

(2) Throat jump doesn't matter a whole ton. Load to whatever length makes you happiest.

(3) Premature throat and topstrap erosion doesn't happen because one powder is "hotter" than another. It happens through the use of extremely slow-burning ball-type powders. Titegroup is not one of these.
(1) I have a Lyman case prep tool that will do all the above.

(2) Figured it might be negligible.

(3) I've read that too, in combination with using light projectiles.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post

Are you sure you want to shoot targets with slow moving XTPs? If you are rolling in dough, go ahead, but for plinking and target I use much less expensive bullets than defense style.

Plated bullets are ok to about 1200 fps. Heavy plated plated bullets are almost like jacketed

For the best accuracy I use .38 HBSWC swaged bullets. Grease in groove lube for harder bullets is ok.

I mostly shoot polymer coated bullets, mostly Hi-Tek coated that cost about 8 cents each.
The XTPs were mentioned just as a datapoint for 158grain projectiles. My Lee manual or die set sheets don't have a close analog in 158 grn FPs in lead or plated. Those are expensive pills for target shooting absolutely.

I was able to get my Berry's 158 grn plated at about 7 cents ea with some clever use of coupons and promotions.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiwi cop View Post
My solution is to spray lube the cases. Pistol cases loaded with carbide dies do not need lube but it works. My LGS has their own proprietary case lube using an alcohol base for dispersal in a spray bottle but any good spray on case lube should work.

You may find your powder charge a bit light. I use 4.2 gn Tightgroup under a 148 gn HBWC in my 6Ē 686-4. Hodgson lists this as a +P load with a max 4.4 gn at 980 fps, and while I canít offhand remember the velocity it is lower than Hodgson lists (most of their loads are a bit optimistic in my experience). I load for a minimum 120 PF with an additional 8-10 PF as a safety margin so it is probably in the 850-900 fps range. In a .357 Magnum case velocity will be a fair bit lower again.

And Starline brass will last for years. I loaded an original 500 cases for almost 20 years to +P pressures before I bought some more to replace those that were splitting.
How are you ensuring the case mouth interiors are coated with a spray? I don't mind the stickyness of the full length sizing/decapping die, it's not that bad, the sticking in the expanding die really interrupts my flow though.

I have some Alcohol/Lanolin lube that works great but there doesn't appear to be a time efficient way to get it on the case mouth interior.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
i reload 357 magnum using only Starline brass and Berry's 158gr FMJ-FP bullets.

I highly suggest H110 for use with 357 Magnum. That has been my powder of choice lately and I've been real happy with the results.

Now if you really want to use titegroup, if it was me, I'd start with 5.5grs. I think you'd be fine at 5.5 grs since there's only a spread of 94fps between the starting load and max load.

Word of extreme caution!!!
5.5gr of Titegroup is gonna be at the bottom of the case and if you accidentally double charge a case, it might be difficult to tell the difference between a double charge and normal charge. This is another reason why I suggest using H110 or similar, I also like using Blue Dot for 357 magnum. If I try to double charge 13.9 gr of H110 the case will overflow. 14gr of H110 will fill a 357 magnum case about 2/3rds full. Real easy to tell if there's powder in the case and a accidental double charge is a no-brainer.
You have Berry's FMJs? Or did you mean plated? If you meant plated, we're using the same projectiles.

At the moment not working on magnum-level pressures. I'm using 357 cases mostly to avoid crud ring in the cylinder. Thus, I'm more concerned about complete burning, low muzzle flash and low(er) noise. Goal is slightly more pressure than 38 special, so around 38 +P.

I've heard that argument regarding powders that require higher weight charges for a given velocity regarding the impact on case volume/double charge potential. However, I'm of the opinion that if you don't have you enough confidence to avoid double-charges, you don't have confidence in your process, tools or yourself. The solution isn't to rely on a failsafe like powder spilling out of the case, but to fix your process or tools until you are confident.

I find it analogous to those that won't carry 1911s in condition 1. If you don't have confidence that your firearm won't discharge without you pulling the trigger, your gun and/or you need repair.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:07 AM
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In my 686-4 revolvers I use only 357 brass.this keeps the cylinder holes cleaner and less bullet jump if 38spl cases used.

I use a lot of Hornaday 148gr HBWC bullets and hard cast 158gr coated bullets from Summers Enterprises.

Under the 148gr HBWC is 3.6gr of Titegroup.The 158gr I load stouter with 5.5gr of Unique.

I seat the 158gr to the max .357 OAL 1.590" with a med to heavy rolled crimp in the crimp groove.

The 148gr HBWC gets a light rolled crimp over the top of the bullet.

My primers are whichever I can find the cheapest

I load on a Lee 4 Hole Classic Turret press using Lee 4 die sets and Pro Auto Disk powder measure.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86ed View Post
You have Berry's FMJs? Or did you mean plated? If you meant plated, we're using the same projectiles.

At the moment not working on magnum-level pressures. I'm using 357 cases mostly to avoid crud ring in the cylinder. Thus, I'm more concerned about complete burning, low muzzle flash and low(er) noise. Goal is slightly more pressure than 38 special, so around 38 +P.

I've heard that argument regarding powders that require higher weight charges for a given velocity regarding the impact on case volume/double charge potential. However, I'm of the opinion that if you don't have you enough confidence to avoid double-charges, you don't have confidence in your process, tools or yourself. The solution isn't to rely on a failsafe like powder spilling out of the case, but to fix your process or tools until you are confident.

I find it analogous to those that won't carry 1911s in condition 1. If you don't have confidence that your firearm won't discharge without you pulling the trigger, your gun and/or you need repair.

1... yes I use Berry's plated bullets I called them FMJ's but we're talking about the same bullet.

2. if you want to avoid carbon rings in the cylinder by shooting 357 magnum cases but not shoot 357 magnum loads then consider this load I'll share straight out of my Hornady 9th edition.

Hornady 158gr LSWC or LSWC-HP (lead semi wadcutter flat point or hollow point, it doesn't matter) They come in 300 round value packs labeled as Hornady "Frontier lead" sold at the Academy stores, LGS may have them but the best prices I found were online at MidwayUSA or Brownells.

Ok so Hornady 158gr LSWC

3.8gr Titegroup

COL 1.590"

Estimated fps of 850.

winchester small pistol magnum primers. Although I used regular small pistol primers and noticed no difference between the two on this particular load.

3... I never had a accidental double charge because I do pay close attention however did the guy next to you at the range pay close attention?

4... 1911 pistols carried in condition 1 are incredibly safe as long as they're carried in the appropriate holster. Another thing to consider guys. And this goes to everyone. Is put some thought about what style holster you use if you're going to open carry a 1911 pistol "cocked & locked". For example, would you feel comfortable standing in line at the grocery store standing behind a guy with a 1911 in condition one wearing a shoulder holster with the muzzle pointed straight back at you? LOL. The guy carrying knows it's safe, you know it's safe, I know its safe. but does average joe standing in line know? So that's my take on it. with the right holster they are very, very safe to carry in condition one...

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Old 05-22-2018, 02:07 PM
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How are you ensuring the case mouth interiors are coated with a spray? I don't mind the stickyness of the full length sizing/decapping die, it's not that bad, the sticking in the expanding die really interrupts my flow though.

I have some Alcohol/Lanolin lube that works great but there doesn't appear to be a time efficient way to get it on the case mouth interior.
I drop the cases into a plastic container, spray the lube and give the container a shake. I leave the cases a few minutes to dry then drop them into the case feeder tubes.

Instructions with the lube say to spray, shake, air dry then spray a second time, but I donít bother with the repeat.

Iím not sure how much lube gets into the case mouth but it works, no more sticking on either the resize die or the expanded button.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:00 PM
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I wipe a Q-Tip in a dilute solution of Zippo lighter fluid and Imperial Sizing Wax. The Q-Tip gets wiped around inside the case mouth about ⅛" deep.
It make case expansion easier and I get very little brass adhering to the nose of the expander die. It was the brass rubbing off onto the nose of the expander plug that got me lubing the inside of the cases.
The lighter fluid evaporates fast leaving a very thin coating of sizing wax behind.

I rub straight undiluted Imperial Sizing Wax onto my lube pad and roll my revolver cases on the wax prior to sizing them. The Imperial Wax wipes off easily with a micro-fibre towel. I found I could get a thinner coat of wax onto the outside of the case by rolling on the wax coated pad.

Last edited by Greenjoytj; 06-10-2018 at 03:14 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:20 AM
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Col in a revo is generally not an issue. Load to the crimp groove. Me, i wont load bullets in a revo without a cannelure or crimp groove to rollcrimp into, especially with heavier loads.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:17 PM
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Don't load them too long. Smooth sided plated bullets that have no cannelure or crimp groove can creep forward on you so untill you get a little experience with the 38/357 leave some room , .004 short of the cylinder face isn't a lot of room.
I taper crimp the smooth sided bullets in 38/357 by using a 9mm luger taper crimping die instead of the roll crimp that came with the 38/357 dies.
Gary
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenjoytj View Post
I wipe a Q-Tip in a dilute solution of Zippo lighter fluid and Imperial Sizing Wax. The Q-Tip gets wiped around inside the case mouth about ⅛" deep.
It make case expansion easier and I get very little brass adhering to the nose of the expander die. It was the brass rubbing off onto the nose of the expander plug that got me lubing the inside of the cases.
The lighter fluid evaporates fast leaving a very thin coating of sizing wax behind.

I rub straight undiluted Imperial Sizing Wax onto my lube pad and roll my revolver cases on the wax prior to sizing. The Imperial Wax wipes off easily with a micro-fibre towel. I found I could get a thinner coat of wax onto the outside of the case by rolling on the wax coated pad.
I ended up trying some Lee resizing lube via applicator on the case mouth. Solve the expander sticking as well as made the projectiles easier to seat.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Don't load them too long. Smooth sided plated bullets that have no cannelure or crimp groove can creep forward on you so untill you get a little experience with the 38/357 leave some room , .004 short of the cylinder face isn't a lot of room.
I taper crimp the smooth sided bullets in 38/357 by using a 9mm luger taper crimping die instead of the roll crimp that came with the 38/357 dies.
Gary
Ahhhh, have 9mm taper crimp dies. That idea escaped me.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
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I ended up trying some Lee resizing lube via applicator on the case mouth. Solve the expander sticking as well as made the projectiles easier to seat.
it seems doing that would also make the bullets more able to jump their crimp.

I have never had to lube case mouths in order to seat bullets. I think that is solving the wrong problem.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:04 PM
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it seems doing that would also make the bullets more able to jump their crimp.

I have never had to lube case mouths in order to seat bullets. I think that is solving the wrong problem.
Potentially, but a cylinder of the load 5 rounds fired 6th showed unchanged COL. Legitimately brought calipers to the range.

The lube was to solve the cases sticking on the expanding die, the bullet seating aspects were just a bonus. If I don't need to spend the time to wipe off lube no reason to. This particular brass is thick and stiff. It doesn't help that my plated projectiles are .001 over normal 357 jacketed bullets. The brass is tough to bell and the bullets are a definitely an interference fit. I don't have this issue with any range brass, this seems to be unique to Starline.

Though, on the plus side, the starline brass can almost be ejected without extractor.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:15 PM
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Ahhhh, have 9mm taper crimp dies. That idea escaped me.
And it works like a charm to boot.
Gary
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:53 PM
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covered...

Last edited by bigggbbruce; 06-07-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:01 PM
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I ended up trying some Lee resizing lube via applicator on the case mouth. Solve the expander sticking as well as made the projectiles easier to seat.
Watch the LEE sizing lube it will rust your die in a week if you leave it on, itís a water based lube. I learn that the hard way.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:58 AM
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Watch the LEE sizing lube it will rust your die in a week if you leave it on, itís a water based lube. I learn that the hard way.
Just checked them out. No signs of rust on mine and it's been a while. Maybe it's hygroscopic and it's a factor in more humid environments?
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:47 PM
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When and if you use the CFE or Unique powder in the magnum cases for your testing,
I had good luck with the Xtreme 158 plated for accuracy at +/- 1090fps
for my light target loads.
I stopped at 1180fps for my 357 full target loads due to increasing recoil and muzzle jump.

If you want X-Lite target loads with the 357 case I have gotten Unique powder
down to 976fps in my 6" 686 revolver.
Bullseye up to 918fps and Trail Boss down to just 788fps with a
Sutter Cast 158 wc with a OAL of 1.58".

Stay safe.
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Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
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When loading plated bullets (Berry's) I chamfer the inner edge of the resized/trimmed brass, which eliminates cutting. I then taper crimp just enough to remove the die's (RCBS) "M"-style enlargement, and maybe just a smidge more, to move the outside of the case mouth in, so there is nothing to hang up during a reload. Pulling a bullet showed a shallow, indented ring around the case mouth area of the bullet, but no cutting. I'm going to try less of a crimp, because I wonder if that ring may not do much for accuracy, although at close ranges, hardly a problem.

Recently, I couldn't find my preferred Winchester 357 brass, so I bought 100 from Starline, due to its reputation. (And availability)
I found that probably 30% were over or under the recommended trim-to length in all my manuals. If I trimmed the short ones all to the same length for consistent crimp, they would be much shorter than my other brass. I figured maybe I had a bad lot of cases.

I emailed the company, and received the answer that SAAMI "allows "them to turn out brass +- .010...but they would be happy to replace all out-of spec brass.

None was...close, but not more than .010" over or under, so, I'll trim and use what I can, and use the shorties for snake shot loads.
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Old Today, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
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When loading plated bullets (Berry's) I chamfer the inner edge of the resized/trimmed brass, which eliminates cutting. I then taper crimp just enough to remove the die's (RCBS) "M"-style enlargement, and maybe just a smidge more, to move the outside of the case mouth in, so there is nothing to hang up during a reload. Pulling a bullet showed a shallow, indented ring around the case mouth area of the bullet, but no cutting. I'm going to try less of a crimp, because I wonder if that ring may not do much for accuracy, although at close ranges, hardly a problem.

Recently, I couldn't find my preferred Winchester 357 brass, so I bought 100 from Starline, due to its reputation. (And availability)
I found that probably 30% were over or under the recommended trim-to length in all my manuals. If I trimmed the short ones all to the same length for consistent crimp, they would be much shorter than my other brass. I figured maybe I had a bad lot of cases.

I emailed the company, and received the answer that SAAMI "allows "them to turn out brass +- .010...but they would be happy to replace all out-of spec brass.

None was...close, but not more than .010" over or under, so, I'll trim and use what I can, and use the shorties for snake shot loads.
No issue cutting the plating, but it is a tougher seat than all other brass IME.

The crimp doesn't seem to be so important on revolver loads until you get into the magnum loadings and the cylinder becomes a bullet puller. My bullets don't move and the target gets perforated where I intend it so don't obsess about the crimp so much.
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