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Old 05-23-2018, 07:29 PM
15mtyler 15mtyler is offline
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Default Converting jsp into sjhp

I have acquired a bunch of 158 grain 357 ammo that are jacketed soft points. I know jsp is not recommended for carry in a defensive revolver, but can on turn the bullets into semi jacketed hollow points by drilling or melting a small hole into the soft point? Thanks
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:51 PM
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"I know jsp is not recommended for carry in a defensive revolver,"


Really? By whom, and why?
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
"I know jsp is not recommended for carry in a defensive revolver,"


Really? By whom, and why?
I have read and heard that it does not have enough velocity out of a 3 inch or under revolver to expand, and thus provides the characteristics of a fmj
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:15 PM
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"I have read and heard that it does not have enough velocity out of a 3 inch or under revolver to expand"


I load jsp over 296 in .357 as my hunting load. A local "expert" gave me the same "some guy said" story, and I loaded my model 65 3" with my hunting loads and told him to shoot the water jug. Convinced him...after his vision recovered from the flash enough to find the bullet.


Now what you do need to avoid is buying .357 JSP bullets and loading them in .38 SPL, which is probably where the tale started. Speer makes bullets especially for .38 Spl Short Barrel.
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:45 PM
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It is a matter of getting a bullet deep enough to hit the "Vitals".

Some HP bullets can't do it or even a FMJ in some loads with enough
damage to slow down the attacker.

Some times you just get lucky.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:22 PM
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You can pretty much do anything with the time, tools, and talent, but it seems like the long way around the barn to me. Why not just use those for practice, and buy what you need?
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
You can pretty much do anything with the time, tools, and talent, but it seems like the long way around the barn to me. Why not just use those for practice, and buy what you need?
Or trade them for what you need. Or sell them and buy what you need.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:30 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
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That's why I like the forster case trimmers. They have a hp tool for them consisting of a 1/16" bit for rifles and a 1/8" bit for pistols. I like to use a 9/32" *60 center point drill myself for short bbl'd hp's in revolvers. Did these for a 2 1/2" bbl'd 44spl.


You might want to do a little testing with your 3" bbl/loads into wet newspaper or water jugs to get an idea of how bad the advise was that was given to you. A 1100fps+ 158gr bullet out of a 3" bbl'd 357 is no joke. I've done a little testing with 3" bbl'd 357's. The s&w l-comp 586 I own/use.
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:54 AM
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158gr. jsp is my preferred woods carry/ .357 carbine ( Winchester Trapper or Ruger 77/357) load...... it also rides in my 3" 66 in Penn's Woods.

In urban environments I opt for a +P.38 hollow-point.
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:42 AM
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I've been making my own hp's for years. I chuck them in my Unimat and drill a hole in them! Work fine for me.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:33 AM
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FWIW Midway says the Forster Universal Hollow Pointer 1/8" is not for jacketed bullets IN ALL CAPS but Forster's says ok for JSPs.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/...ow_Pointer.pdf

Go figure and YMMV.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:08 AM
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A SP is a lot better Bear load than a HP design.

It also works on deer and smaller critters.

You might want to save a few?
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:39 PM
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Get the Forster Universal H. P. Tool and convert those SP's to HP's,
that's exactly what the tool is designed to do.....
It's not dangerous and the little tools have been used for decades.
I have one from the 1970's , a little hand tool, called the Goerg Hollow Pointer ($9.75 then) look on Ebay....probably find one for the same price!
Gary
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:58 PM
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If this ammo shoots well for you as is, i.e., accuracy, point of impact, your ability to control the gun and recoil, and quickly get back on target, you need go no further. Hitting your target consistently is far more important than bullet design, shooting through jello, water jugs, etc.

You already have a good weight bullet. Keep things simple and don't obsess over the "what ifs" that some people seem to thrive on.
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:07 PM
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Just buy a box of JHP ammo & shoot up the JSP for practice. You do practice right?
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:48 AM
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There was an article in Handloader magazine a while back where they used center drills (small pilot drill on a cone shape bit) and tapered drill bits to good effect with JSP's and cast bullets.

That was for hunting, I wouldn't recommend it for SD.
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:55 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Just picking nits here: you can't turn a SP into a SJHP without pulling the jacket off the core and putting a semijacket on it. That's not a home shop job.

I've got some Remington SP & SJHP and the jackets are definitely different.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
Just picking nits here: you can't turn a SP into a SJHP without pulling the jacket off the core and putting a semijacket on it. That's not a home shop job.

I've got some Remington SP & SJHP and the jackets are definitely different.
To further pick that nit, if they are Rem JSP, they already have the shorter/scalloped jacket.
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Old 05-29-2018, 01:31 AM
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Default I've toyed with modifying bullets....

I was working on a theory about very heavy bullets in 9mm. It stands to reason that I didn't have a large choice of heavy bullets in 9mm. And loading data is as scarce as hen's teeth.

I found two. 165 gr. FMJ and 158 SWCHP

I flattened the nose of the 165 grain and drilled a hollow point into the end. Shot it into wet pulp One bullet expanded to a nice .6". Others not at all. Totally unreliable.

Next I tried the 158 grain SWCHPs. Again, total failure. The only one that expanded wasn't any larger than the diameter of the 9mm bullet.

Without good max loading date for that weight, I was getting about 850 fps which SHOULD have been enough to expand. (I was trying to emulate a .45 acp bullet)

It's fun to experiment, but for actual SD duty I'm going with something that is very thoroughly tested by more than a few parties.





The 158 grain jobs
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:07 AM
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There's more that goes into hp's than meets the eye. This is an over simplification on alloy and hp size/shape.

Typically you want to use 1bhn alloy per 100fps up to 12bhn. meaning
8bhn ='s 800fps
9bhn ='s 900fps
10bhn ='s 1000fps

The shape and depth of the hp play huge roles in how the hp performs. Same bullet with 3 different hp's as cast.

Penta point ='s 800fps to 1000fps
Large round hp ='s 1000fps to 1200fps
Small round hp ='s 1200fps to 1400fps

In the 5-24 post above, that bullet was done with a center drill. Center drills make an excellent cupped hp.
4-piece Center Drill Set

The 158gr bullets pictured below do well in the 38spl's and heavy 9mm's with their large hp's.


Swaging jacketed hp's from range brass:
It depends on what you want to use the hp for when it comes to weight retention. It took several tries to come up with a hp for hunting with the 44mag that would expand and stay intact. Simulating the velocity of the hunting load for +/- 75yd hits.

The 45acp on the other hand, I wanted the bullets to frag/implode. These bullets left fist sized holes in wet pack and were 7 1/2" deep or out the back of the 9" bundle.


Ness bullets for the 30cal's. The ness bullet was designed for pest control in gardens without having ricochets.The hp is extremely large/long. A cut-a-way of the bullets hp.


That ness bullet in wet pack 13bhn/1800fps. All that was left was the gc/base of the bullet. The rest vaporized.


A hp whole is 1 thing. Making the wright hp hole for the bullets velocity and the type of alloy being used is another.
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I was working on a theory about very heavy bullets in 9mm. It stands to reason that I didn't have a large choice of heavy bullets in 9mm. And loading data is as scarce as hen's teeth.

I found two. 165 gr. FMJ and 158 SWCHP

I flattened the nose of the 165 grain and drilled a hollow point into the end. Shot it into wet pulp One bullet expanded to a nice .6". Others not at all. Totally unreliable.

Next I tried the 158 grain SWCHPs. Again, total failure. The only one that expanded wasn't any larger than the diameter of the 9mm bullet.

Without good max loading date for that weight, I was getting about 850 fps which SHOULD have been enough to expand. (I was trying to emulate a .45 acp bullet)

It's fun to experiment, but for actual SD duty I'm going with something that is very thoroughly tested by more than a few parties.

The 158 grain jobs
The older style jhp need impact vel up around 1000fps. A heavy, soft lhp will likeky expand around that 900fps mark if the hp os large enough or designed correctly.
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Old 05-30-2018, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
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The older style jhp need impact vel up around 1000fps. A heavy, soft lhp will likeky expand around that 900fps mark if the hp os large enough or designed correctly.
I was hoping for SOME results but almost zero results was really disappointing. I was hoping that I could get expansion similar to the way a .45 acp acts at around 830 fps. It quickly became obvious I was going to need some more velocity. I had loads for Power Pistol and Unique which gave the best velocities but didn't have any idea what the max load was. I inquired some manufacturers and was told they didn't even test those bullets. Having such disappointing results I didn't think it worthwhile to delve into the unknown. I may revisit this but I'm letting it stew on the back burner for a while. Maybe I'll get some inspiration.
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