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Old 05-28-2018, 07:15 PM
sjs sjs is offline
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Default 44 Mag OAL

I am trying to load a 300 gr. cast bullet to about 900 fps for use in my 629. From my manuals it looks like something close to 14.5 gr of 2400 will do that, with 15.7 gr being maximum. 2400 is the only powder I have that is listed for a 300 gr bullet in my manuals.

I ordered a sample pack of 300gr coated cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Co and the two options for a crimping groove leave me with an overall cartridge length of + 1.900 and one of 1.615.

The first will not fit in my cylinder ( I wonder what gun could handle that length) and the second is below the minimum OAL in my manuals, which is 1.665 (Alliant Powder) and 1.710 (Lyman).

I believe those minimum OAL numbers are for a max charge. My question is whether my intended load would be safe given the fact that it is more than a grain under max. I would start at a minimum charge of 14.o grains and work up slowly but perhaps it is too risky to even try that.

Any one have a manual that shows an allowable OAL as short as 1.615?
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:31 PM
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Full disclosure, I don't reload 44 mag.

Your bullets probably have two crimp grooves, one for 44 mag cases and one for 44 special. Hence the difference.

My experience reloading 357/38 thus far as seemed to indicate that OAL in revolver cartridges, as far as pressures are concerned are negligible as they have such large case volumes to begin with. It's not like .40 S&W where even few thousandths can cause massive changes in pressure.

I doubt, but I can't state from experience in this cartridge, that your seating depth will cause an overpressure condition.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:40 PM
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If you were wanting to go full throttle into it, then comparing the bullet shank depth of your bullets with the bullets used by Alliant and Lyman would be pretty important. The bullet shape can cause the OAL to be much higher or lower while maintaining the same amount of bullet inside the case.

If it were me, I wouldn't feel unsafe going with 14gr as a starting load.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:44 PM
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You shouldn't have any pressure problems loading to the second crimp groove with the MBC bullets, especially with a downloaded bullet. And the Hodgdon load data website shows 300 grain XTP bullets with an OAL of 1.600, which is shorter than what your OAL would be with the MBC bullets. As to your powder, there would be better choices to build some 900 fps loads than 2400. That will be a pretty low pressure load and 2400 will run dirty as heck. Other powders such as 231/HP38, Longshot, or CFE-P for Hodgdon powders and Unique or Bullseye with Alliant would be better choices I think. What other faster powders do you have in stock at the house?
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:31 PM
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Oal in any revo is set by th crimp groove. There is enough case volume to not be an issue seating to any reasonable depth by the crimp groove.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:44 PM
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Seat to the crimp groove in the bullet. I wouldn't give the OAL in the manual a second thought.
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Old 05-28-2018, 11:46 PM
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The longer Over All Length might be for TC Contenders or Leverguns. Also many of the heavy 44 slugs were first designed for 444 Marlin.

Ivan
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:33 AM
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I think the lower groove you are referring to is actually the lube groove if the bullet was not powder coated. I used those bullets for rifle and handgun. I used 13.0 of 2400 as my starting and I want to say it got me around the 900 or so fps in my 6". I lost quite a few of my notes not to long ago and that load was among them. Coal that worked for me was 1.615. I used Oregon Trail Rifle data for these loads. Same bullet from what I can tell. As with any loads on a forum your mileage may vary. One of the best investments I made years ago was to join Loaddata.com. For a yearly rate you get all published manuals, and published load data out there. The data is copied right from the actual manuals and published articles. Its great.
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:45 AM
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Oregon's load data states 1.610 minimum for the 300 TC by the way.
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confederate Tyrant View Post
If you were wanting to go full throttle into it, then comparing the bullet shank depth of your bullets with the bullets used by Alliant and Lyman would be pretty important. The bullet shape can cause the OAL to be much higher or lower while maintaining the same amount of bullet inside the case.
For me, this is a key point whenever loading bullets of the same weight but of different brands/styles/shapes, or purposely deep seating a bullet.

I always record a new bullet's overall length and the bullet's depth to which it was seated, for future reference. If you know seating it to .xxx" is "normal" then other brands of the same weight can be compared to it & adjustments made if needed.

Not all bullets have crimp grooves & just because it has a crimp groove doesn't guarantee any level of conformity.

So if you can compare it to any other 300gr. bullet you've used, that you have published data for, that would be useful. (I don't shoot 300gr bullets in my 44s so I can't help you there.)

I did notice some cast bullet websites have started listing these dimensions with the bullet's details. Bravo!

.
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:29 AM
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I would not worry about the oal of your loads as long as they fit the cylinder. If they get too long bullet jump can become a problem with heavy recoil. Hodgdon and Accurate have lots of data for other powders on-line. My 629 loves 300 gr bullets.
C.G.B.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
You shouldn't have any pressure problems loading to the second crimp groove with the MBC bullets, especially with a downloaded bullet. And the Hodgdon load data website shows 300 grain XTP bullets with an OAL of 1.600, which is shorter than what your OAL would be with the MBC bullets. As to your powder, there would be better choices to build some 900 fps loads than 2400. That will be a pretty low pressure load and 2400 will run dirty as heck. Other powders such as 231/HP38, Longshot, or CFE-P for Hodgdon powders and Unique or Bullseye with Alliant would be better choices I think. What other faster powders do you have in stock at the house?
I mostly use 2400 for my 357 and 44 but I also have Bullseye, HP38 and Trail Boss. Didn't find any 300 gr data for those but I will try the Hogdon and Accurate sites mentioned above.

Thank you very much guys, very helpful.
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Oal in any revo is set by th crimp groove. There is enough case volume to not be an issue seating to any reasonable depth by the crimp groove.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetopper View Post
Seat to the crimp groove in the bullet. I wouldn't give the OAL in the manual a second thought.
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Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
The longer Over All Length might be for TC Contenders or Leverguns. Also many of the heavy 44 slugs were first designed for 444 Marlin.

Ivan
Pretty hard to add much to that.
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:55 PM
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The bottom one is a lube groove as I stated above. When powder coated, no lube. I have loaded this bullet.

Last edited by yfdcap; 05-29-2018 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:08 AM
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You need more than one manual.
You can get data from most powder companies and some bullet manufacturers online.

The OAL listed in the data is not the minimum, it is only reporting the OAL of the round when crimped into the manufacturers supplied crimp groove. You should be crimping in the groove and not worrying about OAL. The groove supplied by the manufacturer is the correct seating depth for that bullet.
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Last edited by ArchAngelCD; 06-02-2018 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yfdcap View Post
Oregon's load data states 1.610 minimum for the 300 TC by the way.
There really is no min oal. Oal is always bullet & gun specific. Bullet must fit the barrel & magazine if applicable. From there it is just working the load up.
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Last edited by fredj338; 06-11-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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