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  #51  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:19 AM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
I've used the same kinetic bullet puller for 25+ years and it still hasn't broken - they're tougher than you would think at first sight.

If you want to avoid hammering 100 rounds, any collet style bullet puller should work for this job. I have the RCBS one simply because most of my equipment is RCBS and they really stand behind their products if there's a problem.

Good luck.


I ended up ordering the Forster collet puller with collets for both my 38 and 222. Also ordered another 4-place turret to pop them in&out of my Lee turret press.

BTW, I have used my whack-a-mole puller a few times, but find it more stressful than it's worth IMO.
One thing I did learn from all this is to adjust my crimp setting a bit.
Forster Collet Style Bullet Puller - MPN: BP1010
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  #52  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:23 PM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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I've never been able to pull handgun bullets with a collet puller because of the bullet profile. I find the hammer pullers to be more trouble that the reloads are worth if there is more than a couple that need pulling.

If in doubt, dispose of the cartridges.
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  #53  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:51 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Exclamation Another Unexpected Lesson Leanred

While waiting on my new collet bullet puller, I had 13 empty barss of 38s. Remembering that I set up for 125gr, 7.2gr., 38s I thought I would do a short run for the Halibut... I double checked the powder charge multiple times, and made sure I HAD the 125XTPs this time!

Well, I quickly finished the 13 cartridges, so I thought I would weigh them post-loading. Boy was I surprised! I found some of them weighed in as I expected, but then I got an extreme variation, like 7.4 grains too heavy! (Double charge?)...

I still had my whack-a-mole hammer so I pulled about three or so, so I could measure the powder charge. THAT did not work so well since case/bullet lube caused the powder to stick on both bullets and case edges...

For the life of me, I could NOT understand that 7.4 grain delta! The powder looked to be ~about the correct amount, so I decided to weight the empty brass cases. In the past My Starline brass was +-.1gr nearly all of the time. But NOW I was finding a big difference!

Finally, I realized that my ammo reloads (Fiocchi brass) was weighing in at a 7.4gr Delta, and I was worried about a double charge! LESSON LEARNED. The brand of brass matters. Looks like the Fiocchi brass is much more stout than the Starline.

I ended up calculating the difference between brass+bullet in order to see just how much powder I real had in these Fiocchi cartridges. See the inserted image.
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6-web-bulllet-data-jpg  
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  #54  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:35 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Shoot em. Quickload says your combo is a near max 38+P load. 18,000psi
357mag is 35,000psi max. Youre fine
If you dont report back we will assume you lost your fingers and/or vision and I was wrong
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  #55  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:53 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HorizontalMike View Post
While waiting on my new collet bullet puller, I had 13 empty barss of 38s. Remembering that I set up for 125gr, 7.2gr., 38s I thought I would do a short run for the Halibut... I double checked the powder charge multiple times, and made sure I HAD the 125XTPs this time!

Well, I quickly finished the 13 cartridges, so I thought I would weigh them post-loading. Boy was I surprised! I found some of them weighed in as I expected, but then I got an extreme variation, like 7.4 grains too heavy! (Double charge?)...

I still had my whack-a-mole hammer so I pulled about three or so, so I could measure the powder charge. THAT did not work so well since case/bullet lube caused the powder to stick on both bullets and case edges...

For the life of me, I could NOT understand that 7.4 grain delta! The powder looked to be ~about the correct amount, so I decided to weight the empty brass cases. In the past My Starline brass was +-.1gr nearly all of the time. But NOW I was finding a big difference!

Finally, I realized that my ammo reloads (Fiocchi brass) was weighing in at a 7.4gr Delta, and I was worried about a double charge! LESSON LEARNED. The brand of brass matters. Looks like the Fiocchi brass is much more stout than the Starline.

I ended up calculating the difference between brass+bullet in order to see just how much powder I real had in these Fiocchi cartridges. See the inserted image.
This is why target reloaders sort brass not only by brand but also by weight.
Be especially careful of military brass. A pet load in a standard case can be overcharged in military brass.
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  #56  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:34 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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I found an old thread that is pertinent here.

BLUF: 8gr of HS6 under a 158gr LSWC showed minor signs of overpressure.

Duplicating Buffalo Bore FBI Load

This goes back to how gutless modern .38 SPL loads are.
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  #57  
Old 06-15-2018, 01:28 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Some bad advice here! An overloaded .38 special is NOT a .357 mag! It is an OVERLOADED .38 special! The smaller case will generate much more pressure with those charges. DO NOT fire them! The results may be a damaged gun or MUCH worse. Pull em and start over.
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  #58  
Old 06-15-2018, 01:39 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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The Speer #8 manual shows a max load of HS-6 behind a 158 grain lead SWC as 8.0 grains. The starting load is 7.0 grains

Don't strain your brain - the 686 will eat your wimpy 7.2 grain load and never hiccup.
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  #59  
Old 06-15-2018, 01:51 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firesticks View Post
Some bad advice here! An overloaded .38 special is NOT a .357 mag! It is an OVERLOADED .38 special! The smaller case will generate much more pressure with those charges. DO NOT fire them! The results may be a damaged gun or MUCH worse. Pull em and start over.
If 8gr of HS6 in a .38 SPL shell didn't generate overpressure (proof linked above), I'm pretty sure he'd be ok with almost a grain less powder.
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  #60  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:03 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Exclamation Got my Collet Bullet Puller AND PULLED THEM!

Just wanted to let everyone know that I finally got my collet puller, and after screwing up 2-3 rounds, I got things adjusted and finished out pulling the ~100 overloaded rounds. Only negative thing to say about this is that this Forster puller works in my 4-hole Lee Turret, but the turret does not want to stay locked in to the one slot. It keeps wanting to shift the turret when tightening/loosening the grip on the bullet. PITA, but not too bad. Got all pulled in less than 1-1/2hr.

The best part of this is that reloading THESE pulled rounds has allowed me to test several new loads of HS6 with both the 125 and 158xtps in the 38. Actually find out that a max load of HS6 with the 158xtp is NOT as fast or steady as a lesser load of same. In other words, I learned two things:
  1. How to efficiently pull large numbers of bullets
  2. Test several NEW load possible loads with these salvaged reloads.


    And yes, I did chronograph these as yet another learning curve. All said and done, I am glad I have learned from this experience and will not, in the future, attempt to just "get by" with any of my reloading mistakes. I have found this well worth the time and effort to quantify my possibilities by salvaging my over-loads.
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  #61  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:58 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Mike, sounds like you have made a good tasting lemonade out of the lemons you originally brewed up. Any time you spend learning new things about reloading is both informative and interesting to me. I'm glad you learned from this experience and also learned some new things in reloading.
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  #62  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:48 PM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firesticks View Post
Some bad advice here! An overloaded .38 special is NOT a .357 mag! It is an OVERLOADED .38 special! The smaller case will generate much more pressure with those charges. DO NOT fire them! The results may be a damaged gun or MUCH worse. Pull em and start over.
Sorry, but you are simply wrong. Your statements sound like panic and hyperbole.

As I stated in an earlier post, the 38 special case is 1/8 inch shorter than the 357 magnum case - which is about a 10% reduction in case volume. That is the only practical difference between the two cases. The 38 special is a low pressure cartridge with a SAAMI pressure rating of 17,000 psi. Therefore the effect of that 10% reduction in case volume is going to be negligible. Especially if the cartridge is being fired in a 357 - which per SAAMI specs is rated for 35,000 psi. A slightly over charged 38 special case with far less powder than what would be used in a 357 under the same bullet is not going to DOUBLE the pressure due to a 10% reduction in case volume - so it is still going to be under the pressure that a 357 is designed to handle.

If we were talking about a small case volume, high pressure round, like the 9mm that same 1/8 would reduce the case volume by more like 25%. That would have a HUGE effect on pressure. Assuming the round would already be loaded with enough powder to approach the 9mm SAAMI pressure spec of 35,000 psi, a 25% reduction in case volume would put it WAY over pressure.

Per 3rdgeargrndrr's post #54 above, the Quickload ballistics calculator program has already shown that the pressure for these loads wouldn't even be above 38 special +P SAAMI spec of 18,500 psi. Naturally that is way, WAY below the 35,000 psi that a 357 is rated for.

So your statements just aren't logical if you really look at and understand the physics of the situation. Sorry, but you're getting all lathered up over nothing.

HorizontalMike, glad you feel good about your decision to salvage the components by breaking them down - and about having learned something in the process. I think unloading them with your 686 would have been a lot more fun, but different strokes as they say.

One other little trick I can suggest for you. Get yourself a Lee Hand Press. Works really great with a collet puller - and you can pick one up on eBay for dirt cheap. It will work with your regular shell plate, and being hand-held it makes putting the rounds into it really easy. Also, since it is single-stage, there are no alignment issues, and you won't have to remove one of your dies from your turret to use it. Controlled pulling of bullets is one of the main things I use mine for.

Last edited by BC38; 06-16-2018 at 01:44 AM.
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  #63  
Old 06-16-2018, 01:02 AM
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Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6 Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firesticks View Post
Some bad advice here! An overloaded .38 special is NOT a .357 mag! It is an OVERLOADED .38 special! The smaller case will generate much more pressure with those charges. DO NOT fire them! The results may be a damaged gun or MUCH worse. Pull em and start over.
Sorry but you Sir are the one giving bad and inaccurate advice. Everything you said was a paranoid guess on your part and totally wrong. There is nothing at all dangerous with shooting those loads in any .357 Magnum revolver, especially a M686.

Since the OP has already pulled them it's a moot point.
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