Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:16 PM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 61 Times in 35 Posts
Default Odd mark around bullet hole

Shooting a 40cal. With Berry’s 180gr. Plated bullets over power pistol. Noticed some odd marks on the edges of the bullet holes that not quite sure how they got there. It didn’t do it on each shot, but several of them.

Any thoughts?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2C1A0110-FCC2-4EB4-A4F4-990087DB6E99.jpg (55.0 KB, 682 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:25 PM
growr growr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 5,162
Likes: 3,433
Liked 6,245 Times in 2,061 Posts
Default

Too much blue Sharpie???

Randy

Seriously, are you shooting into cardboard or free hanging paper targets? Can't tell from your picture.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:32 PM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 61 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Free hanging 1/2 size cardboard USPSA target at about 5 yds.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:42 PM
growr growr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 5,162
Likes: 3,433
Liked 6,245 Times in 2,061 Posts
Default

5 yards on a USPSA target......I would not be at all concerned.

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:23 PM
noylj's Avatar
noylj noylj is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 493
Likes: 1
Liked 218 Times in 141 Posts
Default

Looks absolutely NORMAL to me.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:33 PM
iouri iouri is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 452
Liked 668 Times in 359 Posts
Default

As others - not sure what I'm looking at; looks normal to me.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:41 PM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 61 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iouri View Post
As others - not sure what I'm looking at; looks normal to me.
The rectangle shaped lines perpendicular to several of the bullet holes. I’ve never seen that before.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:49 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
Banned
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,609 Times in 660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus46 View Post
The rectangle shaped lines perpendicular to several of the bullet holes. I’ve never seen that before.
I think it's called the "blue sharpie effect"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:00 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

Berry's have pretty thin plating. Over crimp them & pieces can start flying off. Not uncommon to see shrapnel marks with bits of the plating sticking in the target, usual about 7-10y. Just guessing.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:00 PM
iouri iouri is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 452
Liked 668 Times in 359 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus46 View Post
The rectangle shaped lines perpendicular to several of the bullet holes. I’ve never seen that before.
If it's not your sharpie I would speculate those are marks of plating coming off the bullet.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:25 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 30,918
Likes: 41,503
Liked 29,153 Times in 13,781 Posts
Default I THINK.....

I think that the bullet first hit at the start of each stripe and the paper gave way a bit and the tip skidded until the bullet actually penetrated the paper
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 06-20-2018, 08:21 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 6,690
Likes: 10,392
Liked 5,972 Times in 2,942 Posts
Default

Easy way to tell if the plating is coming off is to shoot @25 yards. If the groups hold good you are OK. If not it might be overcrimped.
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 06-20-2018, 08:37 PM
one eye joe's Avatar
one eye joe one eye joe is offline
US Veteran
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 4,190
Likes: 3,543
Liked 3,996 Times in 1,627 Posts
Default

EVIDENCE OF ALIEN PRESENCE. ANY CROP CIRCLES ON THE RANGE ? ? ?
__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:16 PM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,481
Likes: 1,155
Liked 18,412 Times in 7,285 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I think that the bullet first hit at the start of each stripe and the paper gave way a bit and the tip skidded until the bullet actually penetrated the paper
That was my first thought too - until I noticed that the "stripes" don't all point in the same direction. If it was the target swinging from impact they would all point the same way.

Pretty much has to be a "petal" of the plating coming off the bullets. I bet the width matches up to the lands/grooves in the barrel...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:17 AM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
Banned
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,609 Times in 660 Posts
Default

There is no way those marks are from the jacket. Shrapnel? No way. C'mon... Really? Sorry but I strongly suspect your shooting buddy was marking the hits with a marker and didn't tell ya..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:02 AM
BLUEDOT37's Avatar
BLUEDOT37 BLUEDOT37 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 5,859
Liked 9,272 Times in 3,480 Posts
Default Squeeze juice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus46 View Post
The rectangle shaped lines perpendicular to several of the bullet holes. I’ve never seen that before.
It's blue Berry's juice. Totally normal.

.
__________________
Waiting for the break of day
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:12 AM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 30,918
Likes: 41,503
Liked 29,153 Times in 13,781 Posts
Default One thing wrong with my theory...

It may be a mark from the tip of the bullet, but it's not lead since it's a plated bullet.

Trying laying the target on a flat surface and push the bullet across the paper to see if it will make a mark like that.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:28 AM
Engineer1911's Avatar
Engineer1911 Engineer1911 is online now
US Veteran
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 6,115
Likes: 6,648
Liked 6,156 Times in 2,666 Posts
Default

Are you loading ammo on a Dillon press?

I've melted bullet range scrap. The plating is usually an empty 'shell' with no lead inside. So I don't think its plating peeling off.
__________________
S&WHF 366
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 06-21-2018, 07:32 AM
Ole Joe Clark's Avatar
Ole Joe Clark Ole Joe Clark is offline
Absent Comrade
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 4,091
Likes: 9,379
Liked 12,841 Times in 2,905 Posts
Default

Aliens, it's gotta be aliens. The ones in my area are armed with black tipped Sharpies.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 06-21-2018, 08:29 AM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 61 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
There is no way those marks are from the jacket. Shrapnel? No way. C'mon... Really? Sorry but I strongly suspect your shooting buddy was marking the hits with a marker and didn't tell ya..
I was the only one on the range. I did not measure them but they do look very close to the size of the rifleing.

What has me confused is they are plated bullets not jacketed. Just don’t know how they would get separated. From what I have found plating is aprox. .003 thick. When I crimp my loads I only just return the bell to straight and try to not squeeze the bullet.

Perhaps some of the cases were long and thus crimped the bullet more?

Last edited by Angus46; 06-21-2018 at 10:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-21-2018, 08:33 AM
Bakebfr480 Bakebfr480 is offline
Banned
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,469
Likes: 271
Liked 1,207 Times in 659 Posts
Default

Looks normal to me!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:16 AM
jake1945's Avatar
jake1945 jake1945 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S.E. Iowa
Posts: 672
Likes: 286
Liked 726 Times in 304 Posts
Default

My bullet holes in paper all show similar marks only mine are green. Green Sharpie that is. I'll shoot a group then mark those holes with green so I can tell where the next group will go.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #23  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:59 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgianni View Post
Easy way to tell if the plating is coming off is to shoot @25 yards. If the groups hold good you are OK. If not it might be overcrimped.
Ime, even 15y will show horrible accuracy if the plating is starting to move off the bullet.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:02 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer1911 View Post
Are you loading ammo on a Dillon press?

I've melted bullet range scrap. The plating is usually an empty 'shell' with no lead inside. So I don't think its plating peeling off.
I have seen over crimped bullets litterally throw bits of plating into the target face at 7y. Not all plated bullets are the same. I am not saying that is what the op is experiencing, but plating spinning off a bullet when over crimped, certainly does happen.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:43 AM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,838
Likes: 7,394
Liked 8,051 Times in 3,652 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
EVIDENCE OF ALIEN PRESENCE. ANY CROP CIRCLES ON THE RANGE ? ? ?
Watching the Ancient Alien Shows on the history channel again?

With all the alien shows , Naked and Afraid and Swamp People...
who says there is no quality TV shows now days !

Throw in BattleBots and what more could you ask for !
Gary
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:58 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 30,918
Likes: 41,503
Liked 29,153 Times in 13,781 Posts
Default I don't think they have to point.....

..in the same direction. It depends on which way the paper 'gave' when the bullet hit. It's a random thing. If the paper didn't 'give' at all, there's a straight hole with no mark..

PS Note that the color of the rings around every hole is the same as the 'skid marks'.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Last edited by rwsmith; 06-21-2018 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:06 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
Banned
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,609 Times in 660 Posts
Default

I've reloaded using Berry's bullets for 9mm, 40s&w and 357 magnum and I've never seen any unusual marks other than a bullet hole. Other than someone used a green marker or aliens, I can't explain the perfectly uniform green marks next to the bullet holes
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:28 PM
M3Stuart's Avatar
M3Stuart M3Stuart is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast Texas
Posts: 2,861
Likes: 921
Liked 1,326 Times in 723 Posts
Default

If you're talking about the black marks around the edges, and you aren't used to seeing that, here's what it is:
These bullets are moving SLOWER or have a ROUNDER NOSE than your usual bullets. Faster moving, flatter nose (think wadcutters) make cleaner holes. At least in my lengthy reloading experience.
__________________
But then, what do I know?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:35 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 409
Likes: 6
Liked 399 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 06-22-2018, 05:40 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 150
Liked 1,540 Times in 841 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
EVIDENCE OF ALIEN PRESENCE. ANY CROP CIRCLES ON THE RANGE ? ? ?
Come on now!Can't be....everybody know that little men from the flying saucers are green...not blue!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 06-22-2018, 07:05 PM
jimbo728's Avatar
jimbo728 jimbo728 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 8,671
Liked 3,497 Times in 1,342 Posts
Default

You are worrying to much.
Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #32  
Old 06-22-2018, 07:45 PM
sdb321 sdb321 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LaFontaine In.
Posts: 397
Likes: 5,628
Liked 629 Times in 236 Posts
Default

I would be more worried if the bullet didn't penetrate the paper!!!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 06-22-2018, 07:53 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 150
Liked 1,540 Times in 841 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb321 View Post
I would be more worried if the bullet didn't penetrate the paper!!!!!
Yeah!and then bounce back at you!Happened once to me.God that hurts!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:57 PM
3rdgeargrndrr's Avatar
3rdgeargrndrr 3rdgeargrndrr is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 1,611
Liked 1,159 Times in 527 Posts
Default

Angus— How hot are the loads and how tight is the crimp?
I also think they are plating separation.
Blue Smoke is a term when you send tiny bullets very very fast from jacket separation like an putting a 30g projectile in a 22-250
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:10 PM
rck281 rck281 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 161
Liked 517 Times in 168 Posts
Default

If the plating is only .003" thick, wouldn't the rifling cut through the plating leaving strips to Asher to the sides of the bullet. Then the spin could separate the plating strips. Just an idea.
__________________
Dick
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:38 PM
iouri iouri is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 452
Liked 668 Times in 359 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdgeargrndrr View Post
Angus— How hot are the loads and how tight is the crimp?
I also think they are plating separation.
Blue Smoke is a term when you send tiny bullets very very fast from jacket separation like an putting a 30g projectile in a 22-250
OP was shooting 180gr in 40SW that would make it subsonic I'd guess
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:45 PM
scattershot's Avatar
scattershot scattershot is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 166
Liked 977 Times in 489 Posts
Default

First thing I would do,is put the target on a solid backing and see if the phenomenon repeats itself. Also try lowering your charge a little to see if that helps? I assume a squeaky clean barrel?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:52 PM
3rdgeargrndrr's Avatar
3rdgeargrndrr 3rdgeargrndrr is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 1,611
Liked 1,159 Times in 527 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iouri View Post
OP was shooting 180gr in 40SW that would make it subsonic I'd guess
My post was confusing. Not saying he went double supersonic or anything. Just saying the plating could have sheared off and left a blue trace on the paper. Copper can have a patina from flame firing anywhere from red to blue .

There was an old joke with the Long range guys. A blue smoke round was purposefully loaded so when a buddy asks to shoot the gun, POOF! A bunch of blue smoke and a big act about blowing up the gun.
Sorry friday night. Johnnie Walker tells me my posts all make sense.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #39  
Old 06-24-2018, 09:19 AM
reloader7.62's Avatar
reloader7.62 reloader7.62 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 67
Likes: 78
Liked 62 Times in 32 Posts
Default

I've never seen those little comet tails with handgun bullets but they do pop up from time to time in some discussions on rifle loads. They are basically caused but bullet jacket failure when bullets with thin jackets are fired at a higher velocity or used in a bore with at faster twist rate than the bullet can withstand and the lead basically starts to spray out. It more noticeable at close range in rifles as the bullet usually degenerates at longer ranges.

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:06 PM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 61 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Got some final answers, and solution to the odd marks. First off I asked a local reloading supply place Graf and Sons in St. Charles Mo. the guy first said he had never seen it either, then when I offered to show him the picture pretty much called me a liar and said I could do anything to a picture....I was stunned and after 35 years of going there, I’m done.

Also contacted Berry’s manufacturing through their website. I got an email back in a day or so and then they called on the phone. Like some on the thread have said he was certain it’s the plating coming off the lead core. The cause we had to determine. He indicated that over velocity or too tight of a crimp can cause problems with separation. I’m way under 1200 FPS so that was ruled out pretty quick. He had me pull a bullet and sent him pictures all looked good. Since I use range brass and dont trim the cases he had me do a test at my next range sesssion. It still occasionally happed with all the different case head-stamps. Then a I did some closer analysis the length of the marks are about the length of the base of the bullet. So it was the entire bearing area where the bullet engages the rifling, not a crimp issue.

Let Jason at Berry’s know the results of my testing and he asked I send him a few bullets to do some quality control tests on the bullets I had. So sent them his way took a while for them to get them via UPS and then they tested no abnormal results.

So he indicated they have seen this before although rarely with match quality barrels where the rifling and in some cases tight tolerances will cut through the plating, thus opening up a pedal of plating copper leaving the marks on the target, and of course at longer distances a pretty negative affect on accuracy. Solution, they have a thicker plated bullet and he gave me a deal on them for working with him. I was like great! Felt more like he was working with me to find out the problem. Very happy with their service and assistance. I’ve always liked Berry’s products now very happy with them. Graf and Sons on the other had.....I’ll never go back after being treated so negatively by a guy who was a total jerk.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:57 PM
socal s&w socal s&w is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 754
Likes: 1
Liked 129 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Treated like Grafs treated you, I wouldn't go back either. That's just BS.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:40 AM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole Odd mark around bullet hole  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,481
Likes: 1,155
Liked 18,412 Times in 7,285 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus46 View Post
Got some final answers, and solution to the odd marks. First off I asked a local reloading supply place Graf and Sons in St. Charles Mo. the guy first said he had never seen it either, then when I offered to show him the picture pretty much called me a liar and said I could do anything to a picture....I was stunned and after 35 years of going there, I’m done.

Also contacted Berry’s manufacturing through their website. I got an email back in a day or so and then they called on the phone. Like some on the thread have said he was certain it’s the plating coming off the lead core. The cause we had to determine. He indicated that over velocity or too tight of a crimp can cause problems with separation. I’m way under 1200 FPS so that was ruled out pretty quick. He had me pull a bullet and sent him pictures all looked good. Since I use range brass and dont trim the cases he had me do a test at my next range sesssion. It still occasionally happed with all the different case head-stamps. Then a I did some closer analysis the length of the marks are about the length of the base of the bullet. So it was the entire bearing area where the bullet engages the rifling, not a crimp issue.

Let Jason at Berry’s know the results of my testing and he asked I send him a few bullets to do some quality control tests on the bullets I had. So sent them his way took a while for them to get them via UPS and then they tested no abnormal results.

So he indicated they have seen this before although rarely with match quality barrels where the rifling and in some cases tight tolerances will cut through the plating, thus opening up a pedal of plating copper leaving the marks on the target, and of course at longer distances a pretty negative affect on accuracy. Solution, they have a thicker plated bullet and he gave me a deal on them for working with him. I was like great! Felt more like he was working with me to find out the problem. Very happy with their service and assistance. I’ve always liked Berry’s products now very happy with them. Graf and Sons on the other had.....I’ll never go back after being treated so negatively by a guy who was a total jerk.
Unless the jerk at Graff was the owner, I wouldn't write them off over one negative interaction with one employee without first informing the owner. If the jerk WAS the owner then hasta la vista baby.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can a small hole be drilled in nose of plated or lead bullet? Rule3 Reloading 38 06-13-2016 01:48 PM
Found a 6906 at a hole in the hole in the wall.. mbliss57 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 19 08-06-2015 05:50 PM
Can I fit a 3 hole turret in a lee 4 hole press 1sailor Reloading 3 06-12-2013 11:37 AM
Not a Smith, But a Hole's a Hole dkees S&W-Smithing 5 01-02-2011 05:52 PM
Gun shop called "Bullet Hole" m75rlg The Lounge 13 12-09-2010 11:33 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)