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Old 06-29-2018, 01:59 PM
Forrest r Forrest r is online now
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Default Testing hot 357 loads

Haven't did any testing for the 357 in awhile (years). Always used 4" or longer bbl's so it really didn't matter. Any 158gr or heavier bullet using powders like unique or slower would result in a pretty good thumper.

Picked up a l-comp 587 7-shot that is supposed to have a 3" bbl. The bbl shroud is 3" long which is a good thing (full length ejector rod for the long cases). The actual bbl is only 2 1/2" long with a 1/2" comp in the end of the bbl shroud.


I tested several different bullets just to see how they would perform. Was really interested in the Mihec 359640 bullet so that's where I did the most testing.


I used 2400, mp-300 & h110 for powders. And used the 2 1/2" bbl'd l-comp 586, 4" bbl, 6" bbl", 8"bbl Dan wesson with the cylinder gap set @3/1000th's. And a 10" contender bbl. I've had several 4" & 6" dw bbl's over the years. I kept the ones that performed extremely well (higher than usual velocities) & got rid of the rest. I don't use/shoot the 8" bbl that much & really need to find a good replacement for it.


I set the chronograph up 10' away and leveled it. Then measured the height of the muzzle and put a target up down range with the bullseye the same height as the muzzle/rest & did 20-shot test strings.

158gr hp 2400 14.7gr test load:
3" bbl ='s 1197fps
4" bbl ='s 1257fps
6" bbl ='s 1343fps
8" bbl ='s 1406fps
10" bbl ='s 1610fps

158gr hp mp-300 18.5gr test load
3" bbl ='s 1124
4" bbl ='s 1261fps
6" bbl ='s 1404fps
8" bbl ='s 1477fps
10"bbl ='s 1672fps

158gr hp h110 16.0gr test load
The 16gr h110 load pretty much mirrored the 18.5gr mp-300 load. All bbl lengths were within +/-10fps of each other.

The faster burning 2400 did better in the shot 2 1/2" bbl.
All powders were pretty much = in the 4" bbl.
The slower burning mp-300 & H110 really shined in the 6" and longer bbl's.

I'm going to stick with the 2400 powder and work on accuracy. I can go up to 15.5gr of 2400 so there's a lot of wiggle room/testing that can be done between the 14.7gr & 15.5gr load.

The mp-300 & H110 are going to be saved and used for hot loads with my home swaged jacketed bullets. Home swaged jacketed bullets for the 357mag


Home swaged jacketed bullets for the 44mag.


It's hard to beat 2400, I use it in the 357 & 44mag, 38spl p+ loads, hot p+ 44spl loads and 1600fps to 2000fps rifle loads. It's not hard to find the sweet spot with cast bullets in rifles when using 2400. The groups shrink up like the 18.7gr 2400 load (upper left). 10-shot group @ 100yds from a 308w that measure 1 3/8" outside to outside of the holes.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:06 PM
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scout789 scout789 is offline
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Thanks! Those are interesting results.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:46 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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Iíve been playing with the 2 different 180gr hyTek coated bullets from Missouri using 2400 ang H110 in my 8 3/8Ē mod 686 and getting pretty much the same results. I can squeeze a little more velocity with the H110 but the 2400 is more accurate. I get around 1250fps with 12gr of 2400 and is the most accurate of everything Iíve tried with 189gr bullet. Got some of the 175 and 190gr from GT loaded up but hot weather has kept me from trying them
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:28 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
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I see loads with a Lee 0.312" 160 gr tl bullet and 19.2 gr 2400. Are you sure you have the 357 target pictures?
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:15 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgianni View Post
I see loads with a Lee 0.312" 160 gr tl bullet and 19.2 gr 2400. Are you sure you have the 357 target pictures?
The lee 312 target picture was posted simply because I find the 2400 powder extremely versatile.


The real push for this testing was hot loads for the short bbl'd l-comp. Getting 1200fps from 125gr bullets with that short bbl is child's play. I have 2 different 125gr bullets laying around and full house loads of bullseye & american select got 1200fps + in that l-comp. Move up to a 158gr/160gr bullet and finding a 1200fps load gets harder.

I didn't do any test targets yet. Was simply testing for consistency & velocities. Most factory ammo is anemic at best.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revo...cs-test/#38spl

Now that I found a "ballpark" load I can work on accuracy and bullet alloy. Shouldn't take too much tuning seeing how 6" groups or less @ 50ft would be more than accurate enough for for my needs considering the longest shot inside my house that I would encounter is 34ft.

The next set of testing will be with targets stapled to wet pack @ 50ft. Wet pack is bundles of newspaper (12") that have taped together and then put into a cooler. The cooler is then filled with water. The bundles of paper swell up and it typically takes putting water on them twice to get them fully saturated. The cooler with the wet pack is brought to the range and a bundle is pulled out and setup on the bowling pin table and a target is stapled to it.
Testing 6" bbl'd 357's in wet pack.


Testing "Ness" safety bullets (h & g #38) @ 50yds in wet pack. These bullets are designed to keep vermin out of the yard/garden and explode upon impact/ no ricochet. The blow golfball sized holes 4" to 5" deep in things that they hit.


Testing alloys in wet pack:
Took 4 or 5 tries to get the alloy right to get the bullet to hold together (the home swaged jacketed 44cal in post above) @ +/- 1100fps. Made those bullets up for deer hunting and wanted to simulate a full house load hit @ 75yds to 100yds. IE 1400fps at the muzzle ='s 1100fps @ 100yds. The recovered bullets along with the test target.


45acp alloy testing in wet pack:
Wanted these bullets not only to penetrate I wanted them to explode. They left fist sized holes in the wet pack and penetrated at least 7 1/2" of wet pack. The test target and recovered bullets tested @ 50ft. 3 shots in 10 seconds and a double tap.


If you look at the blue picture in the center of the wet pack you will see holes in it where the double tap blew out the bundle of wet pack. Don't know how true it is but they say 1" of wet pack is = to 1 1/2" of jell. I've tested factory ammo in wet pack and it seemed pretty close to being true. Really doesn't matter, just another way/form of testing.


Anyway, I found a load. Now it's time to tailor the bullet to that load along with refining it. I want these hp's to stay intact/mushroom which will be hard seeing how they have a huge hp that is designed for slower loads. If I can't get the 359640's to work I'll simply pick another hp to test. I wanted to use the 359640 bullet simply because I have as 4-cavity mold that rains bullets in a hurry. I'm sure I can get 1 of these 35cal hp's to work in the 1200fps range.
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Old 07-01-2018, 03:52 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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Those swaged bullets they look like 9mm brass.Am I having a bad case of hallicination here?
Do you use a Corbin press and dies?
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:16 PM
jwk jwk is offline
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Those lead HPs are good looking bullets.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:12 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
Those swaged bullets they look like 9mm brass.Am I having a bad case of hallicination here?
Do you use a Corbin press and dies?
Yes they are made out of 9mm brass. Anymore I make:

150gr hps ='s 380acp brass/35cal
170gr fn's ='s 9mm brass/35cal
220gr to 280gr 44cal's ='s 40s&w brass
220gr to 280gr 45cal's ='s 40s&w brass

All of the jacketed bullets I make using shell cases for the pistols/revolvers are made with nothing more than common reloading dies. Along with an arbor press to swage the 9mm/380acp cases down. And a rcbs single stage press to swage/form the bullets. The rcbs press is all that's used to make thew 45cal & 44cal jacketed bullets.

I also use the rcbs press to make bullets out of 22lr cases for the 223's.


Since the picture above I've modified the swaging dies to make a 58gr hp bullet for the 223's. Every now and then a bullet would implode while going down range. Too thin of a jacket for the 1 in 7 twists. Making the jackets thicker also makes them shorter/less volume. The end result is the hp's are 58gr.

Need to get moving and make a sp point forming die. I can use the same jackets to make 69gr sp bullets.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:39 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwk View Post
Those lead HPs are good looking bullets.
Thank you, there's a lot of history in that photo. There's:
Lyman 358156, 358439, 358477
cramer 25a, 26
h&g #51
Mihec 359640

The cramer 25a (bottom center) is old, real old & is the least known out of all the bullets pictured above. It's called "the hunting bullet" & was designed for the 357. It has the smallest hp of all of them. Small hp ='s hold together better at high velocities.

The cramer #26 (top row 4th from left) is another interesting design. It's listed as a "keith hp" but it has the large bottom drive band like the 358477 lyman bullet. The large bottom drive band does extremely well with high pressure loads.


I'm getting older and have started selling off some of the molds I've accumulated over the years. Just don't use a lot of them anymore or I bought them simply because they were rare. Sold off most of the cramer's and I'm down to 1 h&g mold (from 50+).

Anyway, it's always interesting to cast the hp's out of different alloys and test them. Or take the cast hp and run it up in a set of swaging dies to re-form the body, nose or hp.
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