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Old 07-11-2018, 07:00 PM
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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Default Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?

Hey all, just picked up a 1956 Winchester 94 for a bit less than $200. Has some good finish issues on the barrel but should make a fun beater.

My question is I have Missouri coated 165’s sized .311 for my marlin and wondering if these would be too big to shoot in the 94?

I DON’T load full power loads, instead I load “pest” rounds or plinkers with red dot or unique. Low velocity, somewhere around supersonic (yes I need to chrono them, maybe next trip to the range).

What’s everyone’s opinion on that size bullet?

I also load round ball’s (I think they’re 45 grain), that are .310” over very small loads of red dot. I’d like to try these too web the winni!
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:12 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
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I use .311" diameter cast bullets in all .30 caliber cartridges. However, some rifles may not accept a .311" bullet; .309" or .310" bullets may work better.

Try the .311" buller by loading a couple to maximum magazine length, about 2.55". If they will chamber without difficulty, they're fine. If not seat a little deeper and try again. If that doesn't work, you probably need a slightly smaller diameter bullet.

I no longer have a .30-30, but the last one I had was a '94 Winchester made in the 1980s. It worked with .311" bullets.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:56 PM
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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.311 lead bullets are generally recommended for the .30-30.

HOWEVER, my personal grouping performance experience with those identical MBC bullets in my 1965 M94 has been less than perfection, and makes it more of a noisemaker than anything. I don't remember group size, but a long ways from tight. Anyway, I let those bullets sit thereafter.

I recently made up some .300 Savage loads firing 168 grain gas check lead spitzers against the MBC bullets. Powder charge was 23 grains of IMR 4227. Both loads were producing 3"-4" groups (from a bench rest with open sights) at 50 yards with my Remington M81, but groups with the MBC bullet loads were hitting about 10" to the Northeast of the GC lead spitzers. I thought that was strange.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:02 PM
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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I agree with the above. Load one or two and see if they chamber and otherwise function. Start with a light loading to avoid pressure issues. Big and heavy is the way to go with cast bullets.
You could always get a Lee push-through die in .310 or .309 if need be.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:45 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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I'd only repeat what has been said above;don't forget that lead bullets are way more ''flexible'' than jacketed.I even wonder why people keep shooting them jacketted bullets!Don't they know that they are outdated!?!
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:31 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
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Take a fired case from the rifle and measure either the hole where the bullet used to be. Or the outside to outside neck/case measurement minus the thickness of both sides of the brass. Measure both sides of the brass because they will not be even unless the brass is neck turned.

This will tell you the max diameter of the bullet you should use.

Typically you should size your cast bullets to the diameter of the ball throat in the rifles chamber. You find this by doing a pound cast/casting and measuring.

1 of the issues most reloaders run into using cast bullets in rifles is:
Too light of a load/low psi of a load for the hard commercial cast alloy.
Too fast of a burning powder when using a high pressure load.

You should consider looking at some reloading data and work loads up using typical rifle powders for those 18bhn hard cast/coated bullets. Powders like 3031/4064/h335/etc. Use the lyman 31141 data
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:10 PM
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Thanks guys. I’ll make up a dummy round and see.

About the fired brass, don’t have any from this gun as I just got it and I actually don’t have any factory ammo these days. I could grab a box if needed though.

As to the slower powders, I don’t hunt or shoot for maximum accuracy so I just make up plinkers that are around 1000fps. Low pressure and shoot good (for me), our to 50 yards. 100 yards is good too but hard for me to see the target when the front sight covers it completely. When I say “good for me”, I get 2-2.5” groups at 50 yards, iron sights, out of lever guns. Nothing to write home about but fun for me to hit cans and such. Kind of slow for those 18bnh bullets but they seem to work ok for what I’m doing.

As always, great info to chew on.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:22 PM
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I had a Winchester 94 , .311 size cast bullets would not chamber , .309 was all that it would accept . My Marlin loves .311 . excellent accuracy . I use IMR 3031 powder and not max loads . For plinkers , Red Dot did a great job , I don't remember the load though . Regards, Paul
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:52 PM
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All of our (2 sons, 9 grandchildren, and 3 great-grandkids coming up) Winchester .30-30's shoot the Lee C309-170F cast of 50/50 wheel weights and linotype metal, gas checked and sized in the RCBS lubri-sizer with a .309" die. After sizing these bullets "spring back" and actually measure .310". No problems at all in Winchester rifles dating from the 1930's to 1970's, and all the freezers are always filled. I don't think the grandkids understand that .30-30 ammo can be purchased; they just send the fired cases to Grampa for recharging!

I use the same bullets in .300 Savage, .308 Win, .30-06, and .30-40 Krag. Usually the same load, 30 grains H335, which in .30-30 yields about 1900FPS, nearly duplicating the factory 170-grain load for velocity.

I have cast and loaded at least 500 of these every year for the past 30 years. Last Model 94 went to a grandson a few years ago, but I have 3 great-grandsons now so I am looking around again for starter rifles for them.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:56 AM
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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Thank you every one! I had the old Winchester out this weekend along with my 336. The rounds loaded just fine and the gun shot well. I want to try a .309 bullet to see if there’s much difference at 50 yards.

I’m also embarrassed to admit this but I couldn’t get the rear sight high enough and figured it was just the light load. Got home and realized there’s an extra adjustment on the blade itself! The leaf was lowered all the way which explains the low shots with the ramp all the way up. Next time....
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:52 PM
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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311 bullets? Only if they are cast bullets. I wouldn't shoot in my 1953 Model 94. Those pre 1964 model 94's are to valuable to shoot 311 jacketed bullets in!!! Just MHO.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:53 PM
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Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets? Winchester 94 and .311 bullets?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnev View Post
311 bullets? Only if they are cast bullets. I wouldn't shoot in my 1953 Model 94. Those pre 1964 model 94's are to valuable to shoot 311 jacketed bullets in!!! Just MHO.
They are mbc coated cast.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:24 PM
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A mite off topic, but I loaded a few .307 jacketed Speer bullets for a friend to use in his .30-30. Those same bullets shot wonderfully in a .30-40 Krag rifle I had.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:05 PM
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Slug the barrel. Make up a dummy round and see if it chambers with a .311 bullet. If it chambers and it's larger than the groove diameter by a couple thousandths, then yes, they will work.....
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:14 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
A mite off topic, but I loaded a few .307 jacketed Speer bullets for a friend to use in his .30-30. Those same bullets shot wonderfully in a .30-40 Krag rifle I had.
Jacketed bullet diameter is seldom as critical as cast bullet diameter. You can generally get good accuracy from an undersized jacketed bullet. It's nearly impossible with an undersized cast bullet, not to mention potential bore leading.
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