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Old 07-16-2018, 08:41 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Default Need a Cat Sneeze 32 Load

I want a very mild lead (preferably wadcutter) load for my K-32. I have some swaged 90 grain Hornadys and a Mihec mould to cast some more, so that would be my first choice, while I also have a couple of other promising moulds as well.

My problem? I want to load those little bullets to mild (midrange) level and if I use my normal Bullseye powder, the required charge of 1.7 grains occupies such a small volume, metering is challenging to say the least. What I would like to find is a bulky powder to get the same performance but not have to worry so much about how many individual flakes are present.

If anyone has any personal experience with a light power load of bulky powder in the 32 S&W Long, I would greatly appreciate hearing from you.

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Old 07-16-2018, 08:49 PM
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Could you have a load in .32 S&W?
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:54 PM
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You migh try TrailBoss. It was developed for case filling but light loads with cast bullets favored by cowboy action shooters. The flakes are shaped like donuts and really fill a case. (It's hard to under or overload a case) I've had very good
( accuracy and recoil) results with it in 38 special.

New "Trail Boss" Smokeless Powder from IMR
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:02 PM
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Trailboss was my thought too. Just looked it up on the Hodgdon site and for a 32 S&W load and 90 grain bullet, they show a range of 1.5-2.0 grains. That is for a LSWC bullet.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:37 PM
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Check out the bulleye forum, a lot of posts there about 32 S&W reloads. I seem to remember seeing loads of about 1.5-1.7 grains of bulleye with a lead wadcutter. Take a look. I sure would like a model 16. Let us know how it works out.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:44 PM
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Default HP-38 would be good....

HP38 would be a pretty good choice.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:53 PM
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Finally dropped down to 2.0 grains of 231 with HBWC and 90 gr lead. Soft fun loads, good luck. Larry
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
Trailboss was my thought too. Just looked it up on the Hodgdon site and for a 32 S&W load and 90 grain bullet, they show a range of 1.5-2.0 grains. That is for a LSWC bullet.
So that will fill mote than half of the case. According to the Hodgdon reloading manual even if you fill the case to the base of the bullet you will not exceed industry allowable pressure.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:46 PM
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I got a bottle of AA#2 about a year ago that was nearly twice as bulky as what was listed on the volumetric density charts. One pound of powder filled the bottle almost all the way to the neck, while a pound of AA#5 I got with it took up about half the volume.

It turned out to be just the ticket to load plated 100-grain .380 ACPs with.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:40 PM
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AA#2 is in the Bullseye class, but bulkier. AA#5 is about the greatest bulk density propellant there is, and it's the best for very hot .38 Super loads.

When you want to use such light loads, it's usually best to make up a small powder dipper from a .22 RF case, etc. instead of using a powder measure. They tend to be non-uniform.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:16 AM
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You might look into Alliant Red Dot that is a bulky flake powder
that will fill small cases.

With a 90 weight lead bullet, 2.5 grs of powder should be around 790fps.
This is right in the middle of the bullseye powder loadings.

However if you have Trail Boss, I would use that powder first
for X-lite loads.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:03 AM
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Trail Boss was designed specifically for what you are asking for, but I don't care for it. It smells bad, it's expensive compared to others and it hasn't impressed me.

But Titegroup most certainly has, when it comes to the task of completely ignoring case volume, air space and/or especially-- powder position. And something else that Titegroup can do very well that a powder such as Red Dot could never: meter a very small yet consistent charge through a powder measure.

I use Titegroup in .32 S&W Long for my semiautomatic Walther GSP. 1.6 or 1.7 grains of Titegroup with Speer or Hornady hollow base wadcutters.

If you are ham-fisted, careless or reckless, Titegroup is NOT for you because it's density and burn rate makes it perhaps THE best possible powder to detonate a firearm if you double, triple or quadruple charge a case.

However, if you are a detail oriented handloader and your methods support a system of checks and balances, Titegroup is amazing when it comes to making great use of "too much" space.

I run those 1.6-1.7 grain charges through my Lyman 55. If I tried that with Red Dot, I would bet my wallet the consistency won't be there.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:54 AM
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I've been loading mine with 2 grains of HP-38/W231 under a wadcutter. Very mild shooting-- which reminds me, I really need to chronograph that.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:16 AM
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Can't help ya, but love your "cat-sneeze" discription for a "ka-puff" !!
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:28 AM
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May I suggest using the VMD (volume measure density) so you can determine what powder is best for your needs.

How to use VMD

The attached thumbnail, and link, is a PDF of a VMD Chart.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf
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File Type: pdf VMD Chart.pdf (29.9 KB, 13 views)

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Old 07-17-2018, 07:42 AM
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I’ve been using WST for my .32 wadcutter loads lately. I modified the small charge bar of my Dillon 550 to handle the small charges. Haven’t had any trouble yet, though I am not sure my old load using 700X was not just as good. I like the Hornady bullet better than the Speer but have not seen Hornadys for sale for quite a while.

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Old 07-17-2018, 08:50 AM
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Here are minimum (starting) loads for the .32 S&W Long using a 93 grain RN bullet, from the Lyman cast bullet handbook. They list no wadcutter loads:

Bullseye 1.5 grains; Red Dot 1.7 grains; Green Dot 1.8 grains; Unique 2.4 grains; 700X 1.6 grains; 231 2.0 grains

MVs given are in the mid-500 ft/sec range.

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Old 07-17-2018, 01:04 PM
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Be cautious with Trail Boss. I load wadcutters for my pre-model K32, and the only time I have stuck a bullet was with 1.7 gr Trail Boss. Sounded different, so checked the bore and no harm done, but I was through shooting for the day.
I like WST, Bullseye, W231.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:48 PM
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I have used W231 with success. Most powders will require a very small charge but since W231 is a ball powder it meters well so it's not a problem to repeat accurate charge weights.

I haven't tried Trail Boss but I see no reason it won't work well. It's a very bulky powder which fills the case well.
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:10 PM
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All this talk of metering problems reminded me... I’ve got a Belding & Mull micrometer powder measure that may work for the tiny charges I’ll need. I’ve got to figure out where I hid my Little Dandy and it’s rotors... the smallest rotors for that may get me down to a usable volume.

I have Bullseye, Unique, Green Dot, HP-38, 700X, and I believe Red Dot on hand, so it will take a while to work through all of those before I start buying new powder since I'm getting plenty of suggestions here for those I have. Unfortunately none of them is as bulky as I would like.

Thanks to all who responded!
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
AA#2 is in the Bullseye class, but bulkier. AA#5 is about the greatest bulk density propellant there is, and it's the best for very hot .38 Super loads.
Going by my notes now, I used a .30cc disk to dispense 2.7 gr of AA#2. For comparison, I use the same .30cc disk to drop 2.8 gr of Bullseye for .38 Spl.

In this instance--

--AA#2 was way bulkier than the VMD charts indicated (.30cc of AA#2 should have been 3.6 gr @.0838 VMD, instead I got 2.7 @ .1111, while Bullseye is listed at .1064).

--AA#2 also took a heavier charge than Bullseye. 2.8 gr of Bullseye would have been .1 gr below book max, a little over 900 fps, while 2.7 of AA#2 came in around 850.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:39 PM
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While I understand your unwillingness to want to spend money on ANOTHER powder when you already have a bevy of (******, old tech, poorly metering flake shotgun) powders consider the penny wise and pound foolish axiom.

A one pounder of Titegroup at full retail with high tax shouldn't exceed $30 and I believe that price would be horrendous... but that one pound of Titegroup metered out 1.7 grains at a time would load over FOUR THOUSAND ROUNDS of .32 S&W Long Wadcutter ammo.

If you were local, I'd give you 300 grains of it to see for yourself.

As to my "not well veiled" insult to old tech powders that are sure to upset someone , I'll clarify... the oldies are still goodies if you have used them to good effect in the past. If you are an old salt that loves his Unique and have successfully been chugging along since the 60's then I absolutely agree that it is indeed the right choice for you. The point I am making is that if you have a task at hand NOW, in 2018, and you want a direct path to success, there are many options with better formulations. Green Dot, Red Dot, and Unique have been improved in every way with many different choices. It's not that I think NOBODY should use these powders (I use a lot of Bullseye, a LOT!) it is simply that in my opinion, if you have a new task and you want the best and easiest path to success, with the mind-numbing array of choices we have now... picking Red Dot or Unique is a lousy idea.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
While I understand your unwillingness to want to spend money on ANOTHER powder when you already have a bevy of (******, old tech, poorly metering flake shotgun) powders consider the penny wise and pound foolish axiom.

A one pounder of Titegroup at full retail with high tax shouldn't exceed $30 and I believe that price would be horrendous... but that one pound of Titegroup metered out 1.7 grains at a time would load over FOUR THOUSAND ROUNDS of .32 S&W Long Wadcutter ammo.

If you were local, I'd give you 300 grains of it to see for yourself.

As to my "not well veiled" insult to old tech powders that are sure to upset someone , I'll clarify... the oldies are still goodies if you have used them to good effect in the past. If you are an old salt that loves his Unique and have successfully been chugging along since the 60's then I absolutely agree that it is indeed the right choice for you. The point I am making is that if you have a task at hand NOW, in 2018, and you want a direct path to success, there are many options with better formulations. Green Dot, Red Dot, and Unique have been improved in every way with many different choices. It's not that I think NOBODY should use these powders (I use a lot of Bullseye, a LOT!) it is simply that in my opinion, if you have a new task and you want the best and easiest path to success, with the mind-numbing array of choices we have now... picking Red Dot or Unique is a lousy idea.
But... but... Unique is cool. Unique is what all the cool people use. Don't you want to be cool?

If my hand isn't covered with soot when I'm done shooting, I don't feel like I've accomplished anything.
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745 View Post
Finally dropped down to 2.0 grains of 231 with HBWC and 90 gr lead. Soft fun loads, good luck. Larry
Good recommendation! 231 = HP38. Depends on which one is on the shelf at your LGS.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:03 PM
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So, this is not exactly what you asked for but I can add a bit more data just in case you decide to use LSWC.

Today I tested some above-modern-max .32 S&W Long loads based on older reloading data. I had 100gr coated LSWC, and loaded 2.7, 3.0, and 3.3 gr of both Universal and Herco. Those are pretty far above modern max, but older manuals were up to a full grain more powder, so I figured I'd be ok.

Sure enough, even the 3.3gr loads showed no high pressure signs at all. The primers looked perfect and the shells fell out of the cylinder. Recoil for the 3.3gr was very mild even though I was shooting a tiny transitional M30.

My point is that many folks say modern .32 long loads are very anemic to protect older I frames and break apart guns, and my tests to day supported that notion. So in that K frame I wouldn't be afraid to ramp it up a bit if you think it might improve accuracy.
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
While I understand your unwillingness to want to spend money on ANOTHER powder when you already have a bevy of (******, old tech, poorly metering flake shotgun) powders consider the penny wise and pound foolish axiom.

A one pounder of Titegroup at full retail with high tax shouldn't exceed $30 and I believe that price would be horrendous... but that one pound of Titegroup metered out 1.7 grains at a time would load over FOUR THOUSAND ROUNDS of .32 S&W Long Wadcutter ammo.

If you were local, I'd give you 300 grains of it to see for yourself.

As to my "not well veiled" insult to old tech powders that are sure to upset someone , I'll clarify... the oldies are still goodies if you have used them to good effect in the past. If you are an old salt that loves his Unique and have successfully been chugging along since the 60's then I absolutely agree that it is indeed the right choice for you. The point I am making is that if you have a task at hand NOW, in 2018, and you want a direct path to success, there are many options with better formulations. Green Dot, Red Dot, and Unique have been improved in every way with many different choices. It's not that I think NOBODY should use these powders (I use a lot of Bullseye, a LOT!) it is simply that in my opinion, if you have a new task and you want the best and easiest path to success, with the mind-numbing array of choices we have now... picking Red Dot or Unique is a lousy idea.

Thanks or the offer, Sevens,but i’m still wondering how to get past the possibility of mis-measuring those tiny little volumes where being off by just a few tenths is extremely significant. Everything I’ve heard about Titegroup performance is good, but the critical factor of volumetric measurement remains.

Froggie
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