Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:49 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,339
Likes: 53
Liked 4,622 Times in 864 Posts
Default Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?

I picked this up last month. I tried a #10 Cap Primer, but it seems too small (won't fire the gun, although the cap ignited after sever tries.). I figure someone here would know what size caps I need to order for this.
Thanks.

Updated: a #11 worked.

__________________
Watch & Pray

Last edited by Dump1567; 08-28-2018 at 04:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:14 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 5,346
Likes: 11,606
Liked 9,018 Times in 3,192 Posts
Default

Right offhand, I would say you need some 4 wing musket caps. They are larger than a #10 percussion cap.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:22 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 14,354
Likes: 23,195
Liked 26,154 Times in 9,068 Posts
Default

There are also #11 percussion caps. Some of my revolvers prefer 10's some prefer 11's. Musket caps are very large comparatively, but now are available with wings and without.

Make sure your nipple isn't clogged. A nipple pick is usually built in the "T" style wrenches. A straightened out paper clip will do in a pinch, Just avoid anything a magnet can pick up as it could spark and be more interesting than you bargained for!

Ivan
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:30 PM
crstrode's Avatar
crstrode crstrode is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Free side of Washington
Posts: 819
Likes: 691
Liked 1,667 Times in 542 Posts
Default

Cqps are not all alike. I've used #10 caps on those guns - as long as it fits on the nipple and goes down all the way it will be fine. A larger cap can be pinched a bit to keep it from falling off. Since we cannot see the top of the nipple, I would not be surprised to find the nipple has been peened-over by dry firing. The top of the nipple should be flat and even, not mashed over with only a smallish hole left for the fire to get through.

Dry firing is the bane of percussion cap guns. NEVER do it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:57 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,339
Likes: 53
Liked 4,622 Times in 864 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crstrode View Post
Cqps are not all alike. I've used #10 caps on those guns - as long as it fits on the nipple and goes down all the way it will be fine. A larger cap can be pinched a bit to keep it from falling off. Since we cannot see the top of the nipple, I would not be surprised to find the nipple has been peened-over by dry firing. The top of the nipple should be flat and even, not mashed over with only a smallish hole left for the fire to get through.

Dry firing is the bane of percussion cap guns. NEVER do it.
The #10 basically didn't seat all the way down.

Maybe I'll order some #11's. I cleaned this out before attempting to fire it. I really just want to shoot it once to see it work.
__________________
Watch & Pray
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-04-2018, 05:25 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is online now
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,940 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

I'd try #11s. If they are too large for the nipple, you can squeeze them a little so they can be forced on the nipple. I use #11s for everything. Musket caps are too big for anything other than muskets and some larger rifles. I have a Sharps replica and a 3-band Enfield which use musket caps.

Last edited by DWalt; 08-04-2018 at 05:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 08-04-2018, 06:42 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,726
Likes: 1,633
Liked 9,093 Times in 3,364 Posts
Default

If you already have some #10's and you just want to shoot the pistol a few times,,I'd simply remove the nipple and trim the dia down a bit so the #10 will fit correctly. It doesn't take much, just keep a slight taper to the nipple as it originally has.

Ordering a single lot of #11's just for a few shots here can be kind of expensive. Maybe you have other uses for the 11's though.

One other thing I see is that the hammer doesn't appear to be striking the nipple squarely.
That's just an observation based on the angle of the nipple and that of the face of the hammer.

The hammer is counterbored to catch cap fragments and maybe the counterbore is more correctly matching the nipple face. But in the pic, it appears the hammer striking the nipple at the rear edge of it.

That angle (along with the poor fit of the cap) isn't going to get you much positive ignition.

Correcting the angle of the hammer to the nipple to better the contact means bending the hammer in this instance,,or carefully recutting the counterbore in the face of the hammer to better match the nipple.
You can't do much with the angle of the nipple itself as it's a tang breech,,not a drum breech.
The latter you could turn a few degrees to match up better.

You might not get a perfect match between the two surfaces, but the closer they meet flat the better to smash and ignite that cap.

When you have the nipple out to trim the stem down to #10, clean up any battering from dry firing all ready mentioned and make sure the flash hole is clear in it and the breech plug
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:19 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
US Veteran
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,471
Likes: 88,955
Liked 24,778 Times in 8,481 Posts
Default

"Musket caps are very large comparatively, but now are available with wings and without."

The wingless caps are no longer in production. A lot of the members of the North-South Skirmish Association liked the wingless caps, but alas, they are no more, unless you have a stash of them.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:15 PM
Pisgah Pisgah is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,439
Likes: 37
Liked 5,413 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
The #10 basically didn't seat all the way down.

Maybe I'll order some #11's. I cleaned this out before attempting to fire it. I really just want to shoot it once to see it work.
#11s are probably your answer, BUT... before you go buy some, examine the nipple closely to see if the top has been slightly "mushroomed" by dry firing. If so, remove the nipple, chuck the threaded shank in to a hand drill, rotate it at slow speed and hold a flat file to it, just enough to reduce the mushroomed area to original diameter.

BTW, I hear Lincoln will be at Ford's Theater the evening of April 14...
__________________
Pisgah

Last edited by Pisgah; 08-04-2018 at 09:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:16 PM
SMSgt's Avatar
SMSgt SMSgt is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,555
Likes: 3,343
Liked 9,152 Times in 3,432 Posts
Default

Looks like an old CVA derringer kit gun. Probably ran about $39 at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-04-2018, 10:23 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,339
Likes: 53
Liked 4,622 Times in 864 Posts
Default

Thanks for all the info.

I cleaned-up the nipple. Tried a 10 again and it really doesn't fit unless I force it. I'll find some 11's eventually.
__________________
Watch & Pray

Last edited by Dump1567; 08-04-2018 at 10:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-04-2018, 10:35 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is online now
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,940 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

"BTW, I hear Lincoln will be at Ford's Theater the evening of April 14..."

Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-04-2018, 11:34 PM
RobertJ.'s Avatar
RobertJ. RobertJ. is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Posts: 6,321
Likes: 24,986
Liked 12,549 Times in 3,779 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
There are also #11 percussion caps. Ivan
I owned one of these years ago, and I used #11 caps.

This was back in my younger and wilder days. My friend Kip (who built it from a kit and then traded it to me) and I took a 1/2" drill and bored it out to .50 caliber. It really wasn't any less accurate after the conversion. Safe? Probably not. Fun? Yes. We traded it back and forth a couple more times until we lost the desire to fool around with black powder.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-05-2018, 02:35 AM
Firesticks Firesticks is offline
Banned
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Stuck in Wyoming.
Posts: 358
Likes: 1,053
Liked 876 Times in 246 Posts
Default

CVA percussion Derringer uses a #11. If it won't slide down and seat the nipple has been mushroomed and should be replaced with the right size and thread nipple. If a #11 is ever so slightly loose a light pinch will snug it up and hold it in place. Don't trust half cock for a safety and carry it around with a nipple in place while doing so. Yes gamblers used to do it but it's not a good practice.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-28-2018, 04:30 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Member
Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer? Correct Size Black Powder Cap for this Derringer?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,339
Likes: 53
Liked 4,622 Times in 864 Posts
Default

Finally shot it. The #11 worked.
__________________
Watch & Pray
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Black Powder Blank 12 gauge shotshells. Powder help? Vegetaman Reloading 23 10-06-2022 08:53 PM
Does This Gun Use Black Powder Or Smokeless Powder? Dating H&R .32 Cal. Vest Pocket MackHR Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 2 07-08-2016 11:15 AM
Black Powder Derringer Appears to be old S&W model - Need Help from Collectors walk_the_walk The Lounge 6 04-09-2012 09:48 AM
Poll: Black Powder powder measures. Andy Griffith Reloading 9 02-24-2009 09:52 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:27 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)