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Old 08-05-2018, 10:19 AM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is online now
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Maybe stupid, but is H4227 and IMR4227 the same powder?
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Old 08-05-2018, 10:48 AM
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According to Hodgdon, the distributor for both, they are now identical and come from the same manufacturer. Previously, when IMR 4227 was distributed by IMR or DuPont, this was not true. This has been several years ago. At that time the H-4227 had a slightly faster burning rate than the DuPont/IMR product.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:05 AM
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I have used them in the 38 special and 357 Magnum loads and
you do not have to worry about exceeding pressures with this powder.
At best, it gives nice low target fps in these weapons with all the
jacket and lead bullets that I tested.
Do to the slow burn rate, it was not the best powder to use in these
small pistol cases.
They may do better in the 40 cal's but I do not load those and
don't even try the little case, of the 9mm, hint.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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They are the same. I shoot a lot it in my 357 Maximums handloads. Very accurate.

It is similar but better than H110/296 in that it downloads without issues.


Prescut
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:35 PM
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According to the Hodgdon website they no longer produce or distribute H4227 leaving only IMR 4227 as the sole choice. What I did notice tho' is the IMR site shows 4227 in .45 Colt for Ruger, Freedom Arms and T/C only!

I'm sure my 25-15 could handle the hotter loads in small quantity, but why push it.
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:49 PM
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H4227 was made by AUstralian Defence Industries (ADI) who also made an identical burning powder but with a coating to reduce temperature for loading .223 for the Australian military marketed at ADI/Mulwex AR2205.

The two powders were interchangeable for reloading data but the coating meant that AR2205 metered differently from powder measures. A little more space was taken up for an H4227 equivalent weight.

Back in the ‘90’s I tried both powders in .38 Special and 44/40. In both cases I preferred the Hodgson powder over the Mulwex powder.

At some time both Mulwex and Hodgson were owned by the same parent company and a question was asked at board level “Why are we making two basically identical powders”?

As a result H4227 was discontinued while AR2208 remained for the military contracts. I cannot find anything definitive to confirm this but I believe that what is now known as H4227 in the US is actually AR2205. H4227 is no longer available down under.

For a few years I replaced H4227 with AR2205 in my reloading, but it was never as accurate for me in my guns, so I switched to Tightgroup.

I have no experience with IMR powders but if they are now referred to as being “the same powders” by the manufacturer then again, I suspect it is AR2205.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:12 PM
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I have mentioned this before, but 4227 is an excellent propellant for use with cast lead bullets in CF rifle loads. I have used both the IMR and Hodgdon versions, and never saw any significant difference in chrono MV measurements with the same loads. I also have used 4227 in .30 Carbine loads, but even with a nearly full case, the MV is somewhat lower than achievable using 2400 or H110/296 loads.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:15 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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Like Dwalt said;4227 in either IMR or H form(if you happen on an old stash of it since it's not manufactured anymore)you cannot stuff enough of it in a .357 hull to create an overcharge.It is,for handgun calibers,very slow burning.
I used it for .44 Mag when H110,2400 and W296 were hard to come by but now that this is only bad ''souvenirs'',I use it for my ''Ruger and Contender only''loads in .45 Colt(4 5/8 Blackhawk).
I think that being so slow burning,it should make for a very good .460 S&W powder.If the God of $$$ decides to drop some of it on my house,I might report the results of my tests!
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
I think that being so slow burning,it should make for a very good .460 S&W powder.....
It does work very well in 460S&W particularly with bullets 300 grains and heavier.

be safe
ruggy
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:22 AM
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From what I have read... The IMR formulation of 4227 has been discontinued. The Hodgdon formulation of 4227 has replaced the IMR formulation and is being sold under the IMR label and the H4227 label is now gone.

In any event, both were so close the data was pretty much interchangeable even though the powders were not identical.
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:49 AM
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I used to buy the DuPont made IMR4227 powder back in the 80s.
It came in a heavy duty metal can with screw lid.
I started reloading 44 magnum with a Lee Loader. 4227 was the specified powder for 240-250 grain bullets using the 1.6cc scoop that came with the tool. It was a great load! Not too hot, but still quite powerful. I even loved the distinct scent of that powder.
Anyhow, the bulk and burn rate were very reassuring when loading in 44 or 357.

Not a very helpful post for the OP. Sorry!

Jim
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:33 AM
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When it comes to magnum powders ? IMR 4227 is by far the easiest powder on the gun itself , less forcing cone erosion . I give up a bit in velocity but all things considered , it's the magnum powder I reach for 99% of the time . I use the CCI " full magnum " primers only for a more complete burn . Regards, Paul
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:42 PM
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I use it in 38/44 loads with the Lyman 358429 . 12.5grs , WSPM primer , Starline +P 38 cases gives me an honest 1150fps from a 6 1/2" pre 23 Outdoorsman . I also used to use SR4756 , now discontinued for same type loads & the old standby 2400 . 4227 won't give top velocities , is easier on forcing cones & give great accuracy . Not to mention it used to cost less than the others .
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:09 AM
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I was using H110 for 500 S&W and it worked great most of the time with maximum loads. But I would get squibs every now and then with anything less than that. Bad news when you get a bullet stuck in the barrel with that one. Using 4227 now and it is working great.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:11 AM
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I have 4 sealed 1lb Metal Cans of Dupont IMR 4227. I have been hesitant to load with it because I know that it is not the same as the Current Powder sold by Hodgdon. So if it's a little slower than the new 4227, I guess it is safe to load it using modern data.

Last edited by nipperdog; 08-19-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Raby View Post
I was using H110 for 500 S&W and it worked great most of the time with maximum loads. But I would get squibs every now and then with anything less than that. Bad news when you get a bullet stuck in the barrel with that one. Using 4227 now and it is working great.
I used H110 Previosly in my 500, and am currently using it in my 460. The trick with H110/W296 is a Good Tight Crimp to get Complete Ignition. I still carry a Wooden Dowel, and a Small Hammer in my Range Bag.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:26 AM
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I am using H4227 in .44Mag with great success for Met. Sil. My load is 18 gr. powder with 300 gr. Hornady XTP bullets, firm crimp and Fed. LP Mag. primer. The recoil is mild, I've shot 120 rounds in one day with no problems at all. I'm getting 1050 fps muzzle velocity, and 900 fps at 200 meters according to my ballistic chart. Takes down rams every time. Also, 5 to 6 inch groups at 200 m. out of an 8-3/8 629.

A long time ago I ran out of H4227 and had a metal can of IMR 4227 so used that. All the sight settings were still spot on at 4 distances, so there has to be very little difference in the 2 powders.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nipperdog View Post
I have 4 sealed 1lb Metal Cans of Dupont IMR 4227. I have been hesitant to load with it because I know that it is not the same as the Current Powder sold by Hodgdon. So if it's a little slower than the new 4227, I guess it is safe to load it using modern data.
I wouldn't give it a second thought. Any difference in IMR 4227 vs. H4227 is insignificant.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
eddietruett asked:
"...is H4227 and IMR4227 the same powder?"
No.

At some point following the consolidation of powder manufacturing in just a few hands, H4227 and IMR-4227 became essentially identical powders, but I have canisters of IMR-4227 powders made in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's and 2010's.

Which one(s) is(are) identical H-4227?

Unless you know, from the manufacturer, by lot number, which powders are, in fact, identical, I would use the reloading data specific each one.
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