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Old 08-05-2018, 04:24 PM
PeterK PeterK is offline
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Angry 460 load data

Hey guys! I'm working out of state, and just ordered a new 460 with 7.5" barrel that should arrive when I get back in town this Thursday. I ordered some dies and 240 grain CUP bullets, now I'm wondering if anyone has some moderate load data to use with 2400? This is the only powder that I'm sure I have at home when I get there. Looking to make some loads to get use to the gun, and will probably pick up some other powder when I get back to town, just don't know what I'll be able to find. I appreciate the help!

Peter

Last edited by PeterK; 08-05-2018 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:27 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Alliant manual shows 31.0 gr as max for 250gr Speer GDHP; 45 Colt load for same weight is 15.4 gr - so any load in that range (15.4-31) should technically work. Also standard disclaimer applies - do your due diligence to double check yada yada.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:46 AM
ruggyh ruggyh is offline
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Make sure your bullets are rated for the speed and pressure you intend to use them at. Typical .451-.452 bullets meant for 45 ACP and such are not suited for 460 use at 460 pressures and velocities even what would be moderate loads.

If you will provide actual bullet information I will provide you starting load information for 2400.

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iouri View Post
Alliant manual shows 31.0 gr as max for 250gr Speer GDHP; 45 Colt load for same weight is 15.4 gr - so any load in that range (15.4-31) should technically work. Also standard disclaimer applies - do your due diligence to double check yada yada.

That is very bad advice!


A 460 and a 45 Colt are not the same cartridge and the load data for each is totally different.


Your "range" is not correct!
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
That is very bad advice!


A 460 and a 45 Colt are not the same cartridge and the load data for each is totally different.


Your "range" is not correct!


I’m aware they are different cartridges, 460 shoots fine everything from 45 schofield to 460 with 45lc and 454 casull inbetween. Might be not optimal small charge in bigger case but I don’t see danger in it.

Edited to clarify: I was looking at it as using 38SP data in 357Mag case.

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Last edited by iouri; 08-06-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:12 AM
PeterK PeterK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh View Post
Make sure your bullets are rated for the speed and pressure you intend to use them at. Typical .451-.452 bullets meant for 45 ACP and such are not suited for 460 use at 460 pressures and velocities even what would be moderate loads.

If you will provide actual bullet information I will provide you starting load information for 2400.


be safe
Ruggy
I'm sorry, I thought I had that. I will be using the Hornady 240 grain XTP MAG bullets designed for the 460. I know that they typically 45 acp bullet wont hold up, but I do appreciate the warning!

Peter

Last edited by PeterK; 08-06-2018 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:59 PM
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Alliant 2400 data for a 250gr GDHP is maxed at 26gr for a 454 Casull. As another person mentioned, it's 31grs for the same bullet in a S&W 460.

It may be a little dirty with 26gr but it would be a good start charge. The 240gr XTP Magnum bullet shank may be different than than 250gr GDHP. I do know the 250gr GDHP seats deeper than a 250gr XTP with the .45 Colt.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:47 PM
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Pete--- You might want to look at Speer #12 or 14 Loading Manuals.

They both have reduced loads in 460S&W. Also an old trick some loaders

use in reduced loads is some type of filler to reduce the voids in bigger ctgs.

This is/was used when subbing smokeless for black powder. Notably in 45-70..

btw... ruggy is the ''460 guru''.. l have followed his advice for years on my 460 PC
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iouri View Post
Iím aware they are different cartridges, 460 shoots fine everything from 45 schofield to 460 with 45lc and 454 casull inbetween. Might be not optimal small charge in bigger case but I donít see danger in it.

Edited to clarify: I was looking at it as using 38SP data in 357Mag case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no "analogy" between the 38 special/357 mag and the 45 colt and 460 magnum

Just look at the difference in length.

Between the 38 and 357 there is 3.7 mm in length difference
between the 45 colt and 460 mag there is 13.4mm

You can not just guess or extrapolate a minimum charge anymore than a maximum charge

Ballistics are based on many many thing, especially case volume.

How much load data have you seen with a 15.0 grain variance between min and max data??
Some SW 460mags have a very long 8" barrel will and tiny charge of a very slow powder make it out the end of the barrel.


The OP needs to look at some manuals or Alliants load data, not get it from a forum.
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:53 AM
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The best advise given here is to buy a loading book and do your own research. Getting reloading recipes from an Internet forum may very well work out but in this case, the information provider did you no favor. Developing your own loads for your gun and your needs is part of the joy of owning your gun. If you are too busy and don’t have time, buy factory ammo.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:10 PM
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With 240 XTP MAG using 2400 and bullet crimped in cannelure start at 80% case fill or 33.4 grains and work up. 37.4 grains will be typical commercial type load.

Guys don't use 45 colt data in 460 case, with most jacketed bullets you may experience squib loads.

be safe
Ruggy

Last edited by ruggyh; 08-07-2018 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:40 PM
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I appreciate the info Ruggy! Like I said in my opening post, I'm working outta town, and will be in town for a short time. I do have manuals, and I have sent and email to Allient powders, still waiting to hear back just looking for some direction. I appreciate all the help guys.

Peter
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:37 PM
ruggyh ruggyh is offline
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I will add it here again for those new to reloading the 460.

Extraction is the best guide to operating under the the design pressure of this cartridge.

Do your load development with clean chambers and extraction should never be sticky unless you are near over pressure condition.

The max load data you see printed is not an absolute but a guide line. The tolerances of firearms vary widely. I have several 460s with tight throats and max loads are 2 full grains lower (depending on powder) than the average in my collection.

Always work your way up.

be safe and good luck
Ruggy
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh View Post
I will add it here again for those new to reloading the 460.

Extraction is the best guide to operating under the the design pressure of this cartridge.

Do your load development with clean chambers and extraction should never be sticky unless you are near over pressure condition.

The max load data you see printed is not an absolute but a guide line. The tolerances of firearms vary widely. I have several 460s with tight throats and max loads are 2 full grains lower (depending on powder) than the average in my collection.

Always work your way up.

be safe and good luck
Ruggy

^^^More words of wisdom from Ruggy, coulda been me that wrote that......

I too stop and back off when I get sticky extraction(sometimes doesn't take much of a charge increase to go from cases falling out, to having to drive them out with a dowel), and my P.C. Compensated Hunter has tight throats, so most of my max loads are more "middle of the road" according to the books. Even many commercial reloaders backed off a tad since the inception of the .460 to ease with extraction. While max pressure is 65,000 psi, most load to about 56,000.
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Old 08-15-2018, 01:28 AM
Friendlyfred Friendlyfred is offline
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Quick question. A new 460 reloader is having problems with ftf light strikes using rifle magnum primers. He said that his reloading books specify those, yet all factory ammo fires normally. Springs tensions etc all checked, problem is only on reloaded 460 ammo using large magnum rifle primers. He is worried about trying to use large pistol primers in a 460.
Bottom line, which primers should he be using??
tia

Last edited by Friendlyfred; 08-15-2018 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:48 AM
ruggyh ruggyh is offline
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The 460 uses Large rifle primers
The problem will be worse with pistol primers as they will be seated deeper

For some reason it is not uncommon for those new to the cartridge fail to seat the primers completely.

Does it light strike with factory ammo?
Does it light strike in SA, DA or both?
Do they fire when struck a second/third time?

Winchester WLR primers produce best results with most powder in this cartridge per my personal testing.

be safe and good luck
Ruggy

Last edited by ruggyh; 08-15-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:53 AM
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Default 460 lite primer strikes

First off , my Hornady book calls for large rifle primers. My Lyman book calls for large rifle,magnum primers.

I use a haornady hand primer and seat primers as far in as this tool will go . There is no adjustment, it goes in all the way.

My revolver is the 460xvr in 5Ē, factory ammo shoots fine , all my reloads are loaded only 1 grain above minimum, and when I get a lite strike I back up the cylinder and fire again and the cartridge goes off.

Iíve tried cci, Winchester, and just today federal primers , Iíve tried large rifle and large rifle magnum primers , and as of now am still getting lite strikes both in single and double action .
Iíve contacted S&W after holding for 30 min that basically will do nothing as long as it works with factory ammo.
The S&W rep I talked to said sure go ahead and try magnum pistol primers ! But I do not think that is a good odea because of the high pressure .

My local smith recommends getting a longer firing pin , Iím watching ting on a new release from apex tactical that is suppose to be a beefier, slightly longer firing pin designed for this heavier gun/cartridge the X frame.

Iím quite disappointed with this fire arm, I have 2 mod 29 and a mod 629, and reload all my 44 mags , theses 3 pistols have no issue with setting off the large rifle magnum primers !
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Old 08-15-2018, 01:00 PM
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Jason, when you solve the problem, post the results on the other group. Others may be having the same problem
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romick33 View Post

My revolver is the 460xvr in 5Ē, factory ammo shoots fine , all my reloads are loaded only 1 grain above minimum, and when I get a lite strike I back up the cylinder and fire again and the cartridge goes off.

!
99.5% of the time that means your primer is to high and not seated fully.


As mentioned LRP are all that is needed in a 460SW, Some like Hodgons say LR magnum, but they used a mag primer in anything labeled magnum regardless of the powder.


Magnum primers are bit thicker, in the 460 the difference in "spark" is not gonna mater as far as pressure,


If it fires factory ammo, something is not right with the hand loads.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh View Post
I have several 460s with tight throats and max loads are 2 full grains lower (depending on powder) than the average in my collection.
Ruggy
What do you consider a tight throat to be on a .460? I just got a new 8 & 3/8" model and a .452 minus gauge is a very tight fit in each hole. .453 won't go into any of the holes. I'm assuming this is a good size and hopefully will be able to get some good groups with .452 lead bullets traveling around 1500 FPS.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
What do you consider a tight throat to be on a .460? I just got a new 8 & 3/8" model and a .452 minus gauge is a very tight fit in each hole. .453 won't go into any of the holes. I'm assuming this is a good size and hopefully will be able to get some good groups with .452 lead bullets traveling around 1500 FPS.
I would consider you to have normal throat and should not have any issues with published load data form Hornady or Barnes.

I have not had any leading issue with throats like yours using cast bullets sized .452 or .453 though typically I used gas checked bullets as I drive them at 460 velocities.

While I have built reduced load with cast and non gas checked bullets, the only time I encountered is was use correctly sized bullets but the were exceptionally hard. The lesson is the bullet has to seal properly.

The lube has also been a problem for some 460 reloaders- dont use a hard lube in my opinion.

Just starting playing with coated bullets so don't have enough experience to make an informed opinion but so far it looks promising.

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:46 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I'm planning going the powder coated route. I've load .30-06 with 150 to 200 grain going 1500 FPS without any problems so I'm guessing 1500 shouldn't be too difficult assuming one use the correct alloy.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:01 PM
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I would also like to see some Moderate loads for the 460. I started out using 2400, but it proved to be Very Dirty. I switched to H110, and am much Happier with it's Cleaner Burn. I have been Loading around 45gn of H110 in a Starline case, under a Hornady XTP 240gn Mag. I was thinking of trying some AA 5744. I have a Pound somewhere. I have seen reduced Loads for the 460 using 5744 but can't remember who published them. BTW I have been using Win LR Primers which lit off the H110 fine.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
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I would also like to see some Moderate loads for the 460. I started out using 2400, but it proved to be Very Dirty. I switched to H110, and am much Happier with it's Cleaner Burn. I have been Loading around 45gn of H110 in a Starline case, under a Hornady XTP 240gn Mag. I was thinking of trying some AA 5744. I have a Pound somewhere. I have seen reduced Loads for the 460 using 5744 but can't remember who published them. BTW I have been using Win LR Primers which lit off the H110 fine.
The cleanest burning powder across its loading range is N110

Down loads reasonable well also

AA5744- starting load 36 grains

You should note most powders become dirtier as the are down loaded

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken158 View Post
The best advise given here is to buy a loading book and do your own research. Getting reloading recipes from an Internet forum may very well work out but in this case, the information provider did you no favor. Developing your own loads for your gun and your needs is part of the joy of owning your gun. If you are too busy and don’t have time, buy factory ammo.
Great advice and trying loads that can not be found on the web bugs me when using H110 or W296.
Yesterday I losded up a test batch
460
Beartooth 280 gr
W296
Man I found a sweet spot with no sticky cases or without popping out primers. Maybe a tad flat but dang it hit a quarter .
All about the fun but really dont like testing it
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:38 AM
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I like it
Beartooth 280 gr
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