|
|
08-09-2018, 11:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 443
Likes: 196
Liked 368 Times in 194 Posts
|
|
Powder for 110gn 38 SPL?
What’s your go to powder for standard and +P 38spl with 110 jhp. I’m looking to make a practice load ( maybe PD ) comparable to standard presusure and +p 38spl out of my snub nose 360 and 60. Low flash powder is a plus. Have any favorite recipes?
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-10-2018, 12:32 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 25,040
Liked 12,586 Times in 3,792 Posts
|
|
I don't. But I recently bought some 110 gr. to load as .38 +P, so I'm glad you asked the question. I've loaded the .38 for many years, but almost always with lead at target velocities and never +P. I'm looking forward to some of our more experienced handloaders sharing their knowledge.
My "go to" powders for .38 Special are Bullseye, Red Dot, 700x, and Unique, usually behind the standard 158 gr. SWC, and 148 gr. HBWC.
Last edited by RobertJ.; 08-10-2018 at 12:36 AM.
|
08-10-2018, 01:20 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,516
Likes: 1,178
Liked 18,470 Times in 7,307 Posts
|
|
I like AA#2, or American Select, if you can get it.
HP-38/W231 is also good for pretty much any 38 special loads - including +P.
|
08-10-2018, 01:49 AM
|
|
Moderator SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
|
|
I can't remember if I ever loaded a 110gr bullet in a .38 Special case. I'm not a fan of light bullets and usually stick with at least a 140gr bullet or heavier.
That said, a good .38 Special powder is a good powder across the bullet weight range with the possible exception bullets heavier than 160gr. I use a lot of W231/HP-38, it should work just fine with a 110gr bullet.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-10-2018, 01:55 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 5,346
Likes: 11,606
Liked 9,019 Times in 3,193 Posts
|
|
It's been a while since I loaded some 110's, but I think I used Accurate #2 and HP38. A #2 is definitely low flash and meters great. A #5 looks like it would work well too, looking at the Western data tables.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-10-2018, 06:51 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 178
Liked 1,661 Times in 691 Posts
|
|
Typically light bullets in snubnosed 38spl's are a bad combo due to the poi being low. I understand every firearm is different, that being said. In 2 different snubnosed/short bbl'd revolvers the poi was 8" +/- @ 7yds when testing 158gr vs 110gr bullets loaded to p+ levels.
Powders:
AA#5 or BE-86
Oddly enough universal clays has little or no flash in longer bbl's (5" or longer). But has a pretty good flash in the snubnose's.
|
08-10-2018, 08:35 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: for now ,Texas
Posts: 2,741
Likes: 186
Liked 3,300 Times in 1,525 Posts
|
|
The 2 powders that are flash suppressed that I have used in 38 spl are Ramshot Zip and Alliants BE-86 . Zip is a faster burn rate powder , about like 231 . I have read that Accurate Arms #2 is also suppressed . I have loaded light bullets in 38spl and those powders worked just fine . Paul
|
08-10-2018, 10:08 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1,398
Liked 3,330 Times in 1,428 Posts
|
|
With light bullets I use a more substantial crimp in order to get better burn. I recently cast and processed a bunch of 105 grain semi wad cutters for 38 special. They will be loaded on top of Unique because that is what I have and it works.
|
08-10-2018, 12:32 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 443
Likes: 196
Liked 368 Times in 194 Posts
|
|
Thanks guys and now.....
Since I’m only buying a pound I’m at the mercy of what’s available at the gun shops. I’m familiar with 231 and Unique and prefer ball powder. As far as the 110s go. The idea is for home defense load for the trophy wife’s m60. Lower recoil so she does practice. Low penetration because we’re talking “house load” POA vs POI isn’t too important because max distance is 30ft but it will be checked. I’m looking mostly to duplicate factory loads that will actually be used.
|
08-10-2018, 02:05 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,401
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,760 Times in 5,686 Posts
|
|
I read an article long ago that had w231 and HS-6 as a low flash powder
for a high vel. 110gr jhp in a 38 special.
As for a 38 snub nose and a +P loading near a factory load,
You will need at least Green Dot or slower powders to get a
consistent load at 950fps or better.
If you have a 3" or longer barrel, most powders will work for
light target loads to full ones with the data out there.
There are also the new "Low flash" powders on the market, that
you can pick up and try out.
I have had good luck in 38 and 9mm with CFE Pistol and BE86.
|
08-10-2018, 08:13 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Morgan County Alabama -
Posts: 440
Likes: 156
Liked 134 Times in 58 Posts
|
|
I have never loaded a .38-Spl with 110-gr bullets but if I were to then it would be with Bullseye OR Accurate #2 and crimp the hell out of it.
|
08-10-2018, 09:46 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,401
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,760 Times in 5,686 Posts
|
|
As a note;
In my M49 S&W snub nose, the 110gr JHP target fps did best
in the 872 to 898 fps area, in my weapon.
Full loads rand from 909 fps with the fast burning powders to
a maximum load of Unique at 996 fps for the best slow burn powders that I tested, accuracy wise.
The light 110gr will work in a snub but a 125 at 880 bare bones
or 903 fps if you can handle it, is a little better in the SD department.
The problem is getting a JHP to expand with the fps out of the short 1 7/8" barrel !!
One reason, many just shot a "Slow" big 158 gr. lead wc bullet.
Good luck.
|
08-10-2018, 11:18 PM
|
|
Moderator SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich5674
Since I’m only buying a pound I’m at the mercy of what’s available at the gun shops. I’m familiar with 231 and Unique and prefer ball powder. As far as the 110s go. The idea is for home defense load for the trophy wife’s m60. Lower recoil so she does practice. Low penetration because we’re talking “house load” POA vs POI isn’t too important because max distance is 30ft but it will be checked. I’m looking mostly to duplicate factory loads that will actually be used.
|
Forget the 110gr bullets for what you are looking to do. I highly suggest you load a 148gr DEWC bullet at around 800fps and you are done. That bullet is already at full caliber expansion, it will not over penetrate and recoil should be mild with a powder like W231. I'm thinking a charge of only 3.5/3.6gr will get you there.
Good luck finding something your wife will shoot.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
|
08-11-2018, 06:03 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northeast Florida
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
Liked 40 Times in 11 Posts
|
|
I reload with the Accurate line of powders. I would recommend trying Accurate #2.
|
08-11-2018, 05:26 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The wet side of Oregon
Posts: 6,292
Likes: 8,814
Liked 7,785 Times in 2,377 Posts
|
|
For 110 XTPs in 38 Special I have had good results using 4.5 grains of bullseye.
Velocity in the mid 800s, depending on the gun.
__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95
|
08-11-2018, 05:49 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,874
Likes: 7,481
Liked 8,130 Times in 3,678 Posts
|
|
Back in the day , when Lee Jurras first came out with those new 110 grain jacketed hollow points we used Unique , in charges I'm not going to repeat. Taken from the Speer Loading Manual #8 (1970) they were the forerunner to +P+ and were best fired out of a 357 magnum.
Shooting water melons and water filled milk jugs was spectacular fun
Today the 110 gr. JHP with 6.0 grs. Unique would be a maximum load and 6.3 grs. would be +P Max. Work up to both loads and if sticky extraction is noticed , stop and drop back a little .
I still like Unique in the 38 special for these types loads . Another powder that shows promise is AA #5 .
Gary
|
08-11-2018, 08:15 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 443
Likes: 196
Liked 368 Times in 194 Posts
|
|
A absolute option
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
Forget the 110gr bullets for what you are looking to do. I highly suggest you load a 148gr DEWC bullet at around 800fps and you are done. That bullet is already at full caliber expansion, it will not over penetrate and recoil should be mild with a powder like W231. I'm thinking a charge of only 3.5/3.6gr will get you there.
Good luck finding something your wife will shoot.
|
This is a absolute viable old school option that will be tried. With this Bullet I will be looking for a top standard pressure load from my loading manuals with a common “target” powder like 231 WW Super Target or AA#2. I like that the DEWC doesn’t depend on expansion. My Mom always said “sometimes boring is good”
|
08-11-2018, 08:20 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 443
Likes: 196
Liked 368 Times in 194 Posts
|
|
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
Back in the day , when Lee Jurras first came out with those new 110 grain jacketed hollow points we used Unique , in charges I'm not going to repeat. Taken from the Speer Loading Manual #8 (1970) they were the forerunner to +P+ and were best fired out of a 357 magnum.
Shooting water melons and water filled milk jugs was spectacular fun
Today the 110 gr. JHP with 6.0 grs. Unique would be a maximum load and 6.3 grs. would be +P Max. Work up to both loads and if sticky extraction is noticed , stop and drop back a little .
I still like Unique in the 38 special for these types loads . Another powder that shows promise is AA #5 .
Gary
|
My Dad was NYPD in the bad old days of social unrest and 38 special. He was given some of the original Super Vel 110s that we’re passed to me. I fired a few and if I had more than the few I do have I would use them SPARINGLY
Last edited by rich5674; 08-11-2018 at 08:30 PM.
|
08-11-2018, 08:20 PM
|
|
Moderator SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
|
|
No need to go to the top of the pressure limits since you are looking to produce low recoil. 800fps or a little more will deliver acceptable penetration without excessive felt recoil.
I load 4.0gr W231 to produce a "defensive wadcutter" load but I suggested less because of you wanting less recoil.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-11-2018, 08:36 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 443
Likes: 196
Liked 368 Times in 194 Posts
|
|
All well taken
Of the DEWC I just want something that will “break the skin” 4gns of 231 it will be. I found 110 XTPs in my stash so they will be tried but the DEWC sounds like the recipe
|
08-11-2018, 08:46 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,152
Likes: 10,990
Liked 10,878 Times in 3,281 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
Back in the day , when Lee Jurras first came out with those new 110 grain jacketed hollow points we used Unique , in charges I'm not going to repeat. Taken from the Speer Loading Manual #8 (1970) they were the forerunner to +P+ and were best fired out of a 357 magnum.
Shooting water melons and water filled milk jugs was spectacular fun
Today the 110 gr. JHP with 6.0 grs. Unique would be a maximum load and 6.3 grs. would be +P Max. Work up to both loads and if sticky extraction is noticed , stop and drop back a little .
I still like Unique in the 38 special for these types loads . Another powder that shows promise is AA #5 .
Gary
|
If you are getting sticky extraction, what do you suppose the pressure is? 50,000 psi? 60,000 psi? Either way, you are well over proof pressures for .38 Special.
|
08-11-2018, 08:55 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 792
Liked 679 Times in 437 Posts
|
|
I have used Unique for 110 JHP bullets in the 38 special because I had a pound of it. What ever the max load in the Speer #10 manual is what I used (I shoot them in my model 27 so I am not to concerned about +P 38 special loads). They shot well. If you have not bought powder yet HP-38/W231 are good powders for 38 specials.
|
08-15-2018, 08:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 145
Likes: 27
Liked 74 Times in 29 Posts
|
|
If your looking for a light load for her, and also for house safe, I think I'd stick to maybe a 140-160 grain bullet and some trail boss.
To be real honest,I've been working on some subsonic loads for a suppressed 77/357. Since I know my speed, under 1050 fps, weight is the only change. Hence I've been messing around with 180 grain bullets. They always shoot light with low recoil, and never break the sound barrier.
Give it a shot, plus trail boss is awesome fun!! And while it may "seem" expensive.... it isnt. A 357 case only holds about 4.1 grains MAX, so the 5 lbs I got is good for about 8,500 rds!!! So buy a pound you'll like it, even just for fun!
|
08-15-2018, 08:42 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 145
Likes: 27
Liked 74 Times in 29 Posts
|
|
Oh, to add to my above post, if looking for lighter loads. It makes no sense, but I'd look at a heavier bullet than the 110. First off, the lighter bullets you have to watch for come erosion on some powders, but also for penetration of a bad guy. Recoil typically doesnt come from bullet weight, it comes from speed. But weight can destroy a bad guy/critter. In slower loads you're looking for more mechanical destruction than hydroshock destruction. So, not to be gross, but breaking stuff and plowing through arteries and muscle, etc. Not fracturing inside and shrapnel and creating big vacuum/shock holes in the bad guy. Hope that makes sense.
|
08-16-2018, 08:11 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
you can go over reloading manuals and load at the top; cfe and longshot in hogdon manual produce the most velocity. energy. I would load a light load for practice which would be easier on the gun and shooter; and heavier load or factory load for other than that.
|
08-16-2018, 08:13 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
having shot 3 deer and 8 javelina and 3 coyotes; .357 mag 125s the handgun is not a powerful weapon. a model 60 if it is a 1 7/8 " 38 even less.
|
08-16-2018, 09:12 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
some prefer the heavier 158 +p 38 special . I like 110s and 125s out of my 3" model 13 , but I load .357 cases and a whole lot of blue dot, 296 or 2400.
|
08-16-2018, 09:41 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,401
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,760 Times in 5,686 Posts
|
|
A lot has to do with the weight of the weapon with the amount of recoil.
A 3-4" barrel can soak up a lot of the punishment from SD loads.
In a steel snub nose weighing in at 21 oz. , my data is........
110 jhp 950fps 220 ME.... with a recoil of R3.83
125 jhp 880fps 215 ME...........................R4.33
158 LHP 822fps 237 ME ........................ R5.33
in a air light 38 Spl. that weighs in at just 15 oz.
110 jhp at 950fps .................................. R 5.20
125 jhp at 886 Remington GS ................. R 5.65
158 Lwc at 718fps ME181 hvy 38 spl. ...... R 5.24
Most lady's and young can not control a 158 full load +P load
with just minimum practice sessions.
I comes down to how much recoil one can handle and still be able to
shoot well enough to at least put the first two quick shots on target.
Some say that you only need one 158 +P on target..............
yes this is a good thing but what if the first shot is a miss? Are you up to
shooting a second shot, knowing what is in store for your hands?
I have one family member that flat refuses to shoot a 158 gr lead bullet out
of her 15 oz. snub nose, if it is going faster than 725fps.
Good shooting.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|