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Old 08-09-2018, 11:43 PM
rich5674 rich5674 is offline
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Powder for 110gn 38 SPL?  
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Default Powder for 110gn 38 SPL?

What’s your go to powder for standard and +P 38spl with 110 jhp. I’m looking to make a practice load ( maybe PD ) comparable to standard presusure and +p 38spl out of my snub nose 360 and 60. Low flash powder is a plus. Have any favorite recipes?
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:32 AM
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I don't. But I recently bought some 110 gr. to load as .38 +P, so I'm glad you asked the question. I've loaded the .38 for many years, but almost always with lead at target velocities and never +P. I'm looking forward to some of our more experienced handloaders sharing their knowledge.

My "go to" powders for .38 Special are Bullseye, Red Dot, 700x, and Unique, usually behind the standard 158 gr. SWC, and 148 gr. HBWC.

Last edited by RobertJ.; 08-10-2018 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:20 AM
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I like AA#2, or American Select, if you can get it.
HP-38/W231 is also good for pretty much any 38 special loads - including +P.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:49 AM
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I can't remember if I ever loaded a 110gr bullet in a .38 Special case. I'm not a fan of light bullets and usually stick with at least a 140gr bullet or heavier.

That said, a good .38 Special powder is a good powder across the bullet weight range with the possible exception bullets heavier than 160gr. I use a lot of W231/HP-38, it should work just fine with a 110gr bullet.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:55 AM
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It's been a while since I loaded some 110's, but I think I used Accurate #2 and HP38. A #2 is definitely low flash and meters great. A #5 looks like it would work well too, looking at the Western data tables.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:51 AM
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Typically light bullets in snubnosed 38spl's are a bad combo due to the poi being low. I understand every firearm is different, that being said. In 2 different snubnosed/short bbl'd revolvers the poi was 8" +/- @ 7yds when testing 158gr vs 110gr bullets loaded to p+ levels.

Powders:
AA#5 or BE-86
Oddly enough universal clays has little or no flash in longer bbl's (5" or longer). But has a pretty good flash in the snubnose's.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:35 AM
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The 2 powders that are flash suppressed that I have used in 38 spl are Ramshot Zip and Alliants BE-86 . Zip is a faster burn rate powder , about like 231 . I have read that Accurate Arms #2 is also suppressed . I have loaded light bullets in 38spl and those powders worked just fine . Paul
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:08 AM
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With light bullets I use a more substantial crimp in order to get better burn. I recently cast and processed a bunch of 105 grain semi wad cutters for 38 special. They will be loaded on top of Unique because that is what I have and it works.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:32 PM
rich5674 rich5674 is offline
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Default Thanks guys and now.....

Since I’m only buying a pound I’m at the mercy of what’s available at the gun shops. I’m familiar with 231 and Unique and prefer ball powder. As far as the 110s go. The idea is for home defense load for the trophy wife’s m60. Lower recoil so she does practice. Low penetration because we’re talking “house load” POA vs POI isn’t too important because max distance is 30ft but it will be checked. I’m looking mostly to duplicate factory loads that will actually be used.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:05 PM
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I read an article long ago that had w231 and HS-6 as a low flash powder
for a high vel. 110gr jhp in a 38 special.

As for a 38 snub nose and a +P loading near a factory load,
You will need at least Green Dot or slower powders to get a
consistent load at 950fps or better.
If you have a 3" or longer barrel, most powders will work for
light target loads to full ones with the data out there.

There are also the new "Low flash" powders on the market, that
you can pick up and try out.
I have had good luck in 38 and 9mm with CFE Pistol and BE86.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:13 PM
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I have never loaded a .38-Spl with 110-gr bullets but if I were to then it would be with Bullseye OR Accurate #2 and crimp the hell out of it.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:46 PM
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As a note;
In my M49 S&W snub nose, the 110gr JHP target fps did best
in the 872 to 898 fps area, in my weapon.

Full loads rand from 909 fps with the fast burning powders to
a maximum load of Unique at 996 fps for the best slow burn powders that I tested, accuracy wise.

The light 110gr will work in a snub but a 125 at 880 bare bones
or 903 fps if you can handle it, is a little better in the SD department.

The problem is getting a JHP to expand with the fps out of the short 1 7/8" barrel !!

One reason, many just shot a "Slow" big 158 gr. lead wc bullet.
Good luck.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich5674 View Post
Since I’m only buying a pound I’m at the mercy of what’s available at the gun shops. I’m familiar with 231 and Unique and prefer ball powder. As far as the 110s go. The idea is for home defense load for the trophy wife’s m60. Lower recoil so she does practice. Low penetration because we’re talking “house load” POA vs POI isn’t too important because max distance is 30ft but it will be checked. I’m looking mostly to duplicate factory loads that will actually be used.
Forget the 110gr bullets for what you are looking to do. I highly suggest you load a 148gr DEWC bullet at around 800fps and you are done. That bullet is already at full caliber expansion, it will not over penetrate and recoil should be mild with a powder like W231. I'm thinking a charge of only 3.5/3.6gr will get you there.

Good luck finding something your wife will shoot.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:03 AM
JagmanFL JagmanFL is offline
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I reload with the Accurate line of powders. I would recommend trying Accurate #2.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:26 PM
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For 110 XTPs in 38 Special I have had good results using 4.5 grains of bullseye.
Velocity in the mid 800s, depending on the gun.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:49 PM
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Back in the day , when Lee Jurras first came out with those new 110 grain jacketed hollow points we used Unique , in charges I'm not going to repeat. Taken from the Speer Loading Manual #8 (1970) they were the forerunner to +P+ and were best fired out of a 357 magnum.
Shooting water melons and water filled milk jugs was spectacular fun

Today the 110 gr. JHP with 6.0 grs. Unique would be a maximum load and 6.3 grs. would be +P Max. Work up to both loads and if sticky extraction is noticed , stop and drop back a little .

I still like Unique in the 38 special for these types loads . Another powder that shows promise is AA #5 .

Gary
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:15 PM
rich5674 rich5674 is offline
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Default A absolute option

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
Forget the 110gr bullets for what you are looking to do. I highly suggest you load a 148gr DEWC bullet at around 800fps and you are done. That bullet is already at full caliber expansion, it will not over penetrate and recoil should be mild with a powder like W231. I'm thinking a charge of only 3.5/3.6gr will get you there.

Good luck finding something your wife will shoot.
This is a absolute viable old school option that will be tried. With this Bullet I will be looking for a top standard pressure load from my loading manuals with a common “target” powder like 231 WW Super Target or AA#2. I like that the DEWC doesn’t depend on expansion. My Mom always said “sometimes boring is good”
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:20 PM
rich5674 rich5674 is offline
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Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Back in the day , when Lee Jurras first came out with those new 110 grain jacketed hollow points we used Unique , in charges I'm not going to repeat. Taken from the Speer Loading Manual #8 (1970) they were the forerunner to +P+ and were best fired out of a 357 magnum.
Shooting water melons and water filled milk jugs was spectacular fun

Today the 110 gr. JHP with 6.0 grs. Unique would be a maximum load and 6.3 grs. would be +P Max. Work up to both loads and if sticky extraction is noticed , stop and drop back a little .

I still like Unique in the 38 special for these types loads . Another powder that shows promise is AA #5 .

Gary
My Dad was NYPD in the bad old days of social unrest and 38 special. He was given some of the original Super Vel 110s that we’re passed to me. I fired a few and if I had more than the few I do have I would use them SPARINGLY
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:20 PM
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No need to go to the top of the pressure limits since you are looking to produce low recoil. 800fps or a little more will deliver acceptable penetration without excessive felt recoil.

I load 4.0gr W231 to produce a "defensive wadcutter" load but I suggested less because of you wanting less recoil.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:36 PM
rich5674 rich5674 is offline
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Default All well taken

Of the DEWC I just want something that will “break the skin” 4gns of 231 it will be. I found 110 XTPs in my stash so they will be tried but the DEWC sounds like the recipe
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Back in the day , when Lee Jurras first came out with those new 110 grain jacketed hollow points we used Unique , in charges I'm not going to repeat. Taken from the Speer Loading Manual #8 (1970) they were the forerunner to +P+ and were best fired out of a 357 magnum.
Shooting water melons and water filled milk jugs was spectacular fun

Today the 110 gr. JHP with 6.0 grs. Unique would be a maximum load and 6.3 grs. would be +P Max. Work up to both loads and if sticky extraction is noticed , stop and drop back a little .

I still like Unique in the 38 special for these types loads . Another powder that shows promise is AA #5 .

Gary
If you are getting sticky extraction, what do you suppose the pressure is? 50,000 psi? 60,000 psi? Either way, you are well over proof pressures for .38 Special.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:55 PM
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I have used Unique for 110 JHP bullets in the 38 special because I had a pound of it. What ever the max load in the Speer #10 manual is what I used (I shoot them in my model 27 so I am not to concerned about +P 38 special loads). They shot well. If you have not bought powder yet HP-38/W231 are good powders for 38 specials.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:22 PM
gehlsurf gehlsurf is offline
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If your looking for a light load for her, and also for house safe, I think I'd stick to maybe a 140-160 grain bullet and some trail boss.

To be real honest,I've been working on some subsonic loads for a suppressed 77/357. Since I know my speed, under 1050 fps, weight is the only change. Hence I've been messing around with 180 grain bullets. They always shoot light with low recoil, and never break the sound barrier.

Give it a shot, plus trail boss is awesome fun!! And while it may "seem" expensive.... it isnt. A 357 case only holds about 4.1 grains MAX, so the 5 lbs I got is good for about 8,500 rds!!! So buy a pound you'll like it, even just for fun!
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:42 PM
gehlsurf gehlsurf is offline
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Oh, to add to my above post, if looking for lighter loads. It makes no sense, but I'd look at a heavier bullet than the 110. First off, the lighter bullets you have to watch for come erosion on some powders, but also for penetration of a bad guy. Recoil typically doesnt come from bullet weight, it comes from speed. But weight can destroy a bad guy/critter. In slower loads you're looking for more mechanical destruction than hydroshock destruction. So, not to be gross, but breaking stuff and plowing through arteries and muscle, etc. Not fracturing inside and shrapnel and creating big vacuum/shock holes in the bad guy. Hope that makes sense.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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you can go over reloading manuals and load at the top; cfe and longshot in hogdon manual produce the most velocity. energy. I would load a light load for practice which would be easier on the gun and shooter; and heavier load or factory load for other than that.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:13 PM
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having shot 3 deer and 8 javelina and 3 coyotes; .357 mag 125s the handgun is not a powerful weapon. a model 60 if it is a 1 7/8 " 38 even less.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:12 PM
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some prefer the heavier 158 +p 38 special . I like 110s and 125s out of my 3" model 13 , but I load .357 cases and a whole lot of blue dot, 296 or 2400.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:41 PM
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A lot has to do with the weight of the weapon with the amount of recoil.
A 3-4" barrel can soak up a lot of the punishment from SD loads.

In a steel snub nose weighing in at 21 oz. , my data is........
110 jhp 950fps 220 ME.... with a recoil of R3.83
125 jhp 880fps 215 ME...........................R4.33
158 LHP 822fps 237 ME ........................ R5.33

in a air light 38 Spl. that weighs in at just 15 oz.
110 jhp at 950fps .................................. R 5.20
125 jhp at 886 Remington GS ................. R 5.65
158 Lwc at 718fps ME181 hvy 38 spl. ...... R 5.24

Most lady's and young can not control a 158 full load +P load
with just minimum practice sessions.

I comes down to how much recoil one can handle and still be able to
shoot well enough to at least put the first two quick shots on target.

Some say that you only need one 158 +P on target..............
yes this is a good thing but what if the first shot is a miss? Are you up to
shooting a second shot, knowing what is in store for your hands?

I have one family member that flat refuses to shoot a 158 gr lead bullet out
of her 15 oz. snub nose, if it is going faster than 725fps.

Good shooting.
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