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Old 08-21-2018, 02:55 PM
Al W. Al W. is offline
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Hi Folks,
I just got the bright idea to buy a handgun chambered for 38 Super.
Seems like a good idea to me.
So my question to you far more experienced folks then I is:
Looks like the 9mm shell plate of my Dillon 550 is also marked 38 Super.
So I know the shell plate works , but the dies for 9mm are tapered and the 38 Super case is straight wall.
So do I want to buy a whole set of dies and tool head for 38 super or can I just buy a 38 Super sizing / depriming die to put on my 9mm tool head ? Seems like the powder die and the seating die and crimp die should work fine. Might take a few minutes to set up though. I don't shoot much 9mm. More into my revolvers and model 52 just now.
Just trying to save a few cents. A penny saved is a penny earned!
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:02 PM
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The powder die should work. When I was shooting both 9mm and 38 sup. I had a separate toolhead for my Dillon 550, for the super with separate die setup. There is enough difference between the 9mm and the super that you will be better off using all super dies. It is not like 38 spec. - 357 mag.
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:18 PM
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No experience with a Dillon progressive. However, when I started loading 38 super several years back, I had read ( some of it here as I recall) that some folks just use the sizing die and then readjust the height on the rest of a 9mm set ( Powder , seating and crimping). That said, I haven't proven that since I didn't want to be messing with the settings on my preset 9mm Turret every time I want to run a batch of 38 Super for test. For my Lee Classic turret. The difference was about $20 for an entire die set and a $11 for the Turret. I can change the Turret in less than 3 minutes as well so it was a no brainier for my purposes.
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:59 PM
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Yeah, I recon I could use just the sizing die but reseting is a hassle . On the other hand buying a new tool head , powder measure and dies for the 38 Super will set me back a few bucks. Its the price of glory I guess ?
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:26 PM
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Doesn't the Super us .357 dia. bullets, not .355 like 9mm?
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyabear View Post
Doesn't the Super us .357 dia. bullets, not .355 like 9mm?
They vary from .357 to .356".

FWIW, I reload 125 and 130 gr .356 " (lead and plated )for my two 38 super caliber 1911's. They shoot good but rarely see the outside of the safe unless I'm going to an indoor range. On outdoor ranges, sorting the brass from all that left behind 9mm/40 is a challenge.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:02 PM
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Do yourself a big favor and get a whole new set for the super. I tried the Rube Golberg way to go to try and save a few bucks. What a royal pain in the butt having to switch and adjust all the dies every time I switched..
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyabear View Post
Doesn't the Super us .357 dia. bullets, not .355 like 9mm?
Some folks use any 9mm projectile load heavy and push them hard . some folks claim .356 is the right diameter . Others say slug the barrel first and then decide . But seems like you can use .38 cal bullets . I always look for a target load. Think I'll be shooting 148 gr. RN . And 125 gr RN. the 125 is a nice soft shooting bullet . Fun to shoot.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:08 PM
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Do yourself a big favor and get a whole new set for the super. I tried the Rube Golberg way to go to try and save a few bucks. What a royal pain in the butt having to switch and adjust all the dies every time I switched..
Yeah , your right .
The whole new tool head , dies and power measure can be had for under 200 bucks . Not worth the hassle .
Gets me thinking about 38 Super though.
Sort of my instead of 45 ACP option.
I'm thinking it out.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:24 PM
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I have both in the Dillon. In the long run it will save a lot of time and adjustments. .355 on jacket on both. You can buy bulk .355 jacketed for .9 cents on sale and you cant slow the lead down to be safe in a 9 or 38 super. Jacketed will group better anyway in a 9 and 38 super. Most people dont pick the brass up in 9mm but 38 super they do.

Last edited by 4barrel; 08-21-2018 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:35 PM
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The case taper of the 9 mm is much greater than that of the .38 Super. I'd expect changing the neck expansion die and seating die adjustments between loading sessions-even if it would work-would be a significant pain in the butt. Maybe if shims could be made and you used standard lock rings you could make it less painful, but you'd still be better off with a different dies set & tool head.

Those loading 9mm with other press systems would be well advised to set up your dies using a .38 Super shell holder. The 9mm seems to have some wide variances in rim diameter and a close tolerance shell holder can cause grief. Before anyone asks, the shell holders don't seem to be interchangeable.

Last edited by WR Moore; 08-21-2018 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:45 PM
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I had my 38 Super fitted with a 9 mm barrel.
9mm is so cheap that I haven't put the Super barrel in it for several years now.
And finding fired 38 Super brass is a pain.
Don't worry about picking up 9mm brass but do reload for both.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4barrel View Post
I have both in the Dillon. In the long run it will save a lot of time and adjustments. .355 on jacket on both. You can buy bulk .355 jacketed for .9 cents on sale and you cant slow the lead down to be safe in a 9 or 38 super. Jacketed will group better anyway in a 9 and 38 super. Most people dont pick the brass up in 9mm but 38 super they do.
Count on me picking up my brass !
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post

Before anyone asks, the shell holders don't seem to be interchangeable.
And yet the Dillon shell plate case is marked 9mm 38 Super
so perhaps they are interchangeable for the 550.
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Old 08-22-2018, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al W. View Post
And yet the Dillon shell plate case is marked 9mm 38 Super
so perhaps they are interchangeable for the 550.
They're interchangeable in the Dillon because the top plate of the ram (not the shell plate) establishes the position of the case with respect to the dies. In single stage, the machined surface of the shell holder establishes the position of the case. I'm not real sure why there seems to be a difference-at least on some brands. Lyman solves the problem by using the same shell holder for for both 9 mm/.38 Super (cut for .38 Super, as I expect the Dillon shell plate is ). BTW, while different brands of shell holders will work on any press & dies set, they aren't necessarily interchangeable once your dies are set.
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Old 08-22-2018, 09:38 AM
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Also, you might want to noodle about shooting 38 Super Comp brass vs. standard brass. The difference in rim diameter may affect your shellholder choice. And your gun may not function with Comp brass unless you tweak the extractor. Comp is intended for better functioning, but making use of it isn't always a clean slam-dunk.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:50 AM
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The Starline 9mm SuperComp case has the same head/rim diameter as the 9x19mm. It is not of the semi-rim style of the .38 Super case, but it is otherwise identical and will work fine in any .38 Super pistol having a chamber cut to headspace on the case mouth. I once talked to a Starline engineer and he said that the SuperComp case is very strong and will withstand high pressures of very hot .38 Super loads. I have used them to handload 125 FMJ bullet loads having an MV upwards of 1400 ft/sec. I would recommend you use the Starline 9mm SuperComp case instead of .38 Super. I've had no problems in using them in either of my two .38 Super pistols (Colt GM and EAA Witness). They also work for use in 9mm Steyr or 9mm Largo pistols.

Last edited by DWalt; 08-22-2018 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:07 PM
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In my experience, which is considerable but is all with single stage presses, you will get MUCH BETTER results using .38 super holders, etc rather than 9mm. Virtually all newer .38 super use a 9mm (.355) bore rather than a .38 super (.356) bore.
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
The Starline 9mm SuperComp case has the same head/rim diameter as the 9x19mm. It is not of the semi-rim style of the .38 Super case, but it is otherwise identical and will work fine in any .38 Super pistol having a chamber cut to headspace on the case mouth. I once talked to a Starline engineer and he said that the SuperComp case is very strong and will withstand high pressures of very hot .38 Super loads. I have used them to handload 125 FMJ bullet loads having an MV upwards of 1400 ft/sec. I would recommend you use the Starline 9mm SuperComp case instead of .38 Super. I've had no problems in using them in either of my two .38 Super pistols (Colt GM and EAA Witness). They also work for use in 9mm Steyr or 9mm Largo pistols.
Good to know. I have a 9x23 Colt Government model with an additional Super 38 barrel, but I never tried using the former round with the latter barrel.
In the remote case this next might be of use, I have found Colt Super 38 and 9x23 magazines to be virtually interchangeable.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al W. View Post
Hi Folks,
I just got the bright idea to buy a handgun chambered for 38 Super.
Seems like a good idea to me.
So my question to you far more experienced folks then I is:
Looks like the 9mm shell plate of my Dillon 550 is also marked 38 Super.
So I know the shell plate works , but the dies for 9mm are tapered and the 38 Super case is straight wall.
So do I want to buy a whole set of dies and tool head for 38 super or can I just buy a 38 Super sizing / depriming die to put on my 9mm tool head ? Seems like the powder die and the seating die and crimp die should work fine. Might take a few minutes to set up though. I don't shoot much 9mm. More into my revolvers and model 52 just now.
Just trying to save a few cents. A penny saved is a penny earned!

All this and the Berreta 380 thread and you won't buy another reloading manual??
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:33 PM
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All this and the Berreta 380 thread and you won't buy another reloading manual??
I have another couple coming in a couple of days.
Knowledge is my friend.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:07 AM
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Have been loading the .38 Super since 1980...10-25K rounds a year depending on how much competition shooting I was doing at the time. It has also been my carry caliber all those years.

Yes, you will need a new set of dies. My suggestion would be to get a Lee undersized die that is available from Midway and EGW. If you have any bulging of the case web this die will iron it all out for very reliable feeding. Also the Lee Factory Crimp die does an excellent job and they are cheap money.

Shell plates for the Dillon...a 9mm works fine but I believe there is a caliber specific one for the Super "O" maybe...have not looked for a while...

Brass...if you can find nickel it is much easier to find on the ground and in the grass... Really stands out when shooting in an area with lots of brass on the ground. I would not bother with the rimless SuperComp brass unless you have a double stack magazine as that is what it was developed for. The semi-rim Super case didn't like being stacked in those and caused feeding problems...

Bullets...one nice thing about the Super case over the 9mm or 9x23 is that it is straight wall....you can run any .355, .356 or .357 diameter bullet from 90 to 180 grains... If you look in the newest Hornady Manual they have loads listed for most of their 9mm and .38 bullets.

My favorite bullets are the 124 grain TC. Hornady HAP and the Berry's plated TC-HB are excellent...but any bullet shoots in a Super...

Depending on the barrel, most Super will also run 9x23 Winchester. That said make sure to run them with a 22-24# recoil spring. The guns i have that use 9x23 also have a flat bottom firing pin stop to delay the slide opening and slow things down. The Super runs at 35K PSI...the 9x23 55K PSI...the slide velocity when using 9x23 has to be seen to be appreciated...

Some reading....

38 Super

Corbon

How Does

http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf

Bob

Last edited by SuperMan; 09-19-2018 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
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Have been loading the .38 Super since 1980...10-25K rounds a year depending on how much competition shooting I was doing at the time. It has also been my carry caliber all those years.

Yes, you will need a new set of dies. My suggestion would be to get a Lee undersized die that is available from Midway and EGW. If you have any bulging of the case web this die will iron it all out for very reliable feeding. Also the Lee Factory Crimp die does an excellent job and they are cheap money.

Shell plates for the Dillon...a 9mm works fine but I believe there is a caliber specific one for the Super "O" maybe...have not looked for a while...

Brass...if you can find nickel it is much easier to find on the ground and in the grass... Really stands out when shooting in an area with lots of brass on the ground. I would not bother with the rimless SuperComp brass unless you have a double stack magazine as that is what it was developed for. The semi-rim Super case didn't like being stacked in those and caused feeding problems...

Bullets...one nice thing about the Super case over the 9mm or 9x23 is that it is straight wall....you can run any .355, .356 or .357 diameter bullet from 90 to 180 grains... If you look in the newest Hornady Manual they have loads listed for most of their 9mm and .38 bullets.

My favorite bullets are the 124 grain TC. Hornady HAP and the Berry's plated TC-HB are excellent...but any bullet shoots in a Super...

Depending on the barrel, most Super will also run 9x23 Winchester. That said make sure to run them with a 22-24# recoil spring. The guns i have that use 9x23 also have a flat bottom firing pin stop to delay the slide opening and slow things down. The Super runs at 35K PSI...the 9x23 55K PSI...the slide velocity when using 9x23 has to be seen to be appreciated...

Some reading....

38 Super

Corbon

How Does

http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf

Bob
Thanks for that Bob. Thats a ton of useful information !
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:53 PM
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I have another couple coming in a couple of days.
Knowledge is my friend.



Yes, it is


These days is seems Google and the Internet are the "in" thing.
There is no substitution for manuals.


Powder web sites will give you load data but reloading is more than a "cook book"


There is a wealth of information in the beginning chapters of manuals, (not the caliber load data)that a lot of folks need to read and understand but so many today want instant gratification.(this is not directed at you, I am just babbling, it is too hot outside to do anything!)



There was a great thread some time ago, I shall try to find it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:20 PM
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Yes, it is


These days is seems Google and the Internet are the "in" thing.
There is no substitution for manuals.


Powder web sites will give you load data but reloading is more than a "cook book"


There is a wealth of information in the beginning chapters of manuals, (not the caliber load data)that a lot of folks need to read and understand but so many today want instant gratification.(this is not directed at you, I am just babbling, it is too hot outside to do anything!)



There was a great thread some time ago, I shall try to find it.
I've been looking at the data provided buy the powder manufacturer and have to say that compared to the manuals their suggestions are very conservative . Which is fine for me. I'm developing target loads and not compulsive about power and velocity. Thats not my interest. So light loads are my province .
I'm not loading for bear.
The data is often at odds with it self. Comparing source to source and trying to find actual data on the projectiles you are firing is a challenge.
There are powders I have used that I don't see listed in any of the manuals. The lack of documentation is interesting. These are not new powders , but are powders that until recently were only compounded for the use of commercial ammunition companies , or so I have read.
The fronts of the manuals are instructive , I've read through a couple .
The cook book aspect is enticing and I don't think you can get into much trouble if you stay within the parameters of the manuals. Although its possible to make a mistake its not likely that you will double charge a 9mm or .380 case at least not with the powder I use. You could get in trouble with .38sp because of the case size.
The internet is fascinating.
I remember the days of no internet.
We still managed somehow
When I talk to the more experienced loaders at my club its clear that a lot of their knowledge came ,"word of mouth", if a guy was having good results on the line you copied their methods , often without reference to book or manual. Other folks are far more inquisitive and scientific in their approach.
I'm the empirical learning type, but I always stay within the bounds of safety .
Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:59 PM
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Why buy another powder measure? The Dillon is easy enough to move, just get the powder measure drop tube. I move my measure around between my Square Deals and the Dillon is easy enough to adjust. I have 3 Deals, one for large primer, one is for small primers and the last is a Deal dedicated to 223. I suspect that one came off Lackland AFB. I bought it used at a gunshow in San Antonio. I don't know who modified it but it looks factory.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:24 PM
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I've been looking at the data provided buy the powder manufacturer and have to say that compared to the manuals their suggestions are very conservative . Which is fine for me. I'm developing target loads and not compulsive about power and velocity. Thats not my interest. So light loads are my province .
I'm not loading for bear.
The data is often at odds with it self. Comparing source to source and trying to find actual data on the projectiles you are firing is a challenge.
There are powders I have used that I don't see listed in any of the manuals. The lack of documentation is interesting. These are not new powders , but are powders that until recently were only compounded for the use of commercial ammunition companies , or so I have read.
The fronts of the manuals are instructive , I've read through a couple .
The cook book aspect is enticing and I don't think you can get into much trouble if you stay within the parameters of the manuals. Although its possible to make a mistake its not likely that you will double charge a 9mm or .380 case at least not with the powder I use. You could get in trouble with .38sp because of the case size.
The internet is fascinating.
I remember the days of no internet.
We still managed somehow
When I talk to the more experienced loaders at my club its clear that a lot of their knowledge came ,"word of mouth", if a guy was having good results on the line you copied their methods , often without reference to book or manual. Other folks are far more inquisitive and scientific in their approach.
I'm the empirical learning type, but I always stay within the bounds of safety .
Thanks for the feedback.



You can't go my "word of mouth" over the internet. If you know someone first hand in person and can verify they know what they are doing, then yes.


But here on the internet not so much. Even if someone really knows, a simple typo and kaa boom!
I will not post data, not afraid of liability just not gonna do it. I looked it up, others can do the same, I have helped a lot of new reloaders here, but to many these days just want a load and not understand anything (PS: I posted the old thread)
"Just started reloading, whats the best powder and how much for Whiz Bang bullets in the 45 ACP?"


Which is why many like the LEE manual. It is full of load data not specific to brand. But that data came from elsewhere People should read the first chapters by Richard Lee and learn something.


All data sources will vary. Different date, test, bullet. phase of the moon yada yada,


Most Hornady data and Hodgdons powder with same bullet will be pretty close
Hornady data is perhaps more conservative than say Lyman or Speer.
For the same weight and STYLE of bullet the slight variations will not matter.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:32 PM
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I checked out the old thread.
The internet is a wonderful thing.
Books are also wonderful !
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Al W. View Post
Count on me picking up my brass !
I used to but after 40 years I sold the gun.. Still have a 'almost' 2000 round box of NEW Remington brass.??
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  #30  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:49 PM
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Dillon has a cheat sheet that shows what components are in each cartridge conversion kit, so you can determine if you already have the needed components or not.
You will have to buy .38 Super dies.
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  #31  
Old 09-20-2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by austintexas View Post
Why buy another powder measure? The Dillon is easy enough to move, just get the powder measure drop tube. I move my measure around between my Square Deals and the Dillon is easy enough to adjust. I have 3 Deals, one for large primer, one is for small primers and the last is a Deal dedicated to 223. I suspect that one came off Lackland AFB. I bought it used at a gunshow in San Antonio. I don't know who modified it but it looks factory.
SWCA892
My thought exactly. Moving the powder measure is relatively easy, particularly if one has dedicated tools head for specific calibers, each with a pre-adjusted drop tube. I also have several adjustable measuring bars preset for my most-used charges; it is a simple matter to put install these.
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  #32  
Old 09-20-2018, 08:59 AM
Al W. Al W. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintexas View Post
Why buy another powder measure? The Dillon is easy enough to move, just get the powder measure drop tube. I move my measure around between my Square Deals and the Dillon is easy enough to adjust. I have 3 Deals, one for large primer, one is for small primers and the last is a Deal dedicated to 223. I suspect that one came off Lackland AFB. I bought it used at a gunshow in San Antonio. I don't know who modified it but it looks factory.
SWCA892
This is a good call , saves a few bucks ....
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintexas View Post
Why buy another powder measure? The Dillon is easy enough to move, just get the powder measure drop tube. I move my measure around between my Square Deals and the Dillon is easy enough to adjust. I have 3 Deals, one for large primer, one is for small primers and the last is a Deal dedicated to 223. I suspect that one came off Lackland AFB. I bought it used at a gunshow in San Antonio. I don't know who modified it but it looks factory.
SWCA892

Some folks consider that and adjusting dies to be a "lot of work"


I am lazy but not that bad. I admit I have separate 38 special and 357 Mag dies.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Some folks consider that and adjusting dies to be a "lot of work"


I am lazy but not that bad. I admit I have separate 38 special and 357 Mag dies.
I'm an instrument technician by trade. I actually enjoy adjusting things.
Different strokes!
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Al W. View Post
I'm an instrument technician by trade. I actually enjoy adjusting things.
Different strokes!

I am OCD and like cleaning stuff!
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