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Old 09-10-2018, 01:11 PM
Skeet 028 Skeet 028 is offline
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Default Bought a 94 Win in 357

Posted about it in another thread. It is a 24 inch one. I've never loaded specifically for a rifle in a handgun caliber. I'd like to take advantage of this rifle's extra bbl length. Any tips or pointers for loading the 357 for rifle. I am just starting to cast some 357 429 hollowpoint bullets that I am going to powder coat/bake whatever you call it and would like to try some in it but have many many 180 gr(and some larger) jacketed to load too. Help??
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:23 PM
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Hodgdon lists .357 rifle loads on their website. They're actually the same as the pistol loads just showing the higher velocity through a rifle. Probably not safe to load them any hotter than your pistol rounds to avoid any mix ups.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:27 PM
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I like #2400 behind my cast 168's in my 357 Rossi.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:35 PM
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I have reloaded my handgun cartridge rifles to the same levels as for my handguns (mostly .44 Magnum). The advantage is higher velocities due to longer barrels and I have found no need to load "rifle only" loads. I've loaded some pretty hot loads for my handguns (4 in 44 Magnum and just 1 in 357), but never exceeded handgun data for my rifles...
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:04 PM
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Congratulations

I really like handgun caliber lever actions. I have quite a few in 22LR, 357 Magnum, 41 Magnum and 45 LC

I agree on the top end just use what works in our revolvers.

H110 is a great powder for long barrels. My 357 magnum handgun loads really move out in the lever gun


My 125JHPs which chrono at 1300+ from a snubby model 27, 1600 from the 8" Python, get to just under 2200 in the 1892 lever action rifle

The 158s hit 1200, 1400, 1750 respectively

My 180s are not that fast since I loaded them to be sub-sonic, not full power, in the lever action.
They get shot in a lever gun that I have threaded for a suppressor

One of the really cool things that can be done with a handgun caliber lever gun is the development of a cat sneeze load. Paco Kelly did an article about this 20+ years ago.

Using pure lead balls and small powder charges of fast powder you work up a slow load that still clears your barrel. The result is an almost silent load, it is as quiet as a cat sneeze so it is hearing safe

My 45LC load puts 2 .458 diameter balls into an inch of each other at 20 yards. Those weigh 140 grains each and move out at roughly 600 FPS. It like a double tap from a 38 special snub but at distance.

I never worked one up for the 357 since I had the 45LC first.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:13 PM
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Both H4227, H110/W296 behind 158g swc have worked well (speed/accuracy) out of my handi rifle .357.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:27 PM
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I had an original 1892 re-barreled to 44 mag.. But I never even tried pushing it. Those old actions may not handle the 296 loads anyway. I have used 2400 and 4227 in my 357 mag loads. Want to try L'il Gun in this rifle....maybe
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:25 PM
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A quick check of a couple of manuals indicates lighter loads of H110 for the rifles than for handgun. Of course while achieving much higher velocities in the rifle.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:27 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wonder Why??
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:12 PM
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Probably different powder lots and tested at different times of the year, Skeet 028.

I've been shooting the same ammo I load for my revolvers and my Coonan in my 20" barreled Rossi with no problems whatsoever for 20+ years. The 1892 action is hell for strong anyways, especially done with modern steels like the repro guns have. Like others have said above, you will see much higher velocities out of the rifle than the revolvers. I don't have the numbers right at hand, but I have chrono'ed some MBC 140 grain Zingers out of both revolver and my Rossi and they gained around 400 ft/sec and were a shade over 1900 fps out of the Rossi. The slower powders will see the most gains, since you have a longer barrel for them to work in and you also gain velocity due to the closed chamber of the rifle versus open chamber of a revolver that has a cylinder to barrel gap.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:20 PM
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I don't know. I can only speculate that because the bullet is stuck in the barrel longer, pressures have the opportunity to rise higher, past max.
Newer (for me) Lyman and Lee books show identical loading for each.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:39 PM
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For some odd reason I have less 357 brass than any others in the handgun line. Even less than 41 mag. I have been out in the grudge looking for some cases and have only found 400 once fired 357s...and half of them are nickle cases. I do still have a load of 357 mag reloaded ammo I got in that buy from the estate of the guy that died in a house fire. Some is marked with the loads some not. What I have left is all jacketed reloads. Sold all the 38s and 357s loaded with light cast bullets. Still have 30 boxes...so the ones that are marked with the loads are going to get checked for accuracy. I may actually shoot some that check out. I don't wand to pull 1500 bullets with a wack a molee bullet puller. Of the marked ones only 2 are loaded with H-110...and I can pull them. The rest are Unique and 2400 according to their labels. The other 18 boxes are unmarked reloads.. The bullets in the marked ones are almost all 158 gr XTPs
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:46 PM
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In the early 80's I got my first Marlin 357 ($158 OTD!) I developed a load before the loading manuals took up the idea. My best/favorite load was 180 gr Hornady soft hollow point, over 4227 with a CCI small pistol mag primer. Was the best accuracy (maybe because of the Micro-groove rifling). I tried 200 grain RNSP .358 bullets for 35 REM, but couldn't get them fast enough without blowing sidewalls of the case with the powders of the day! 4227 (H or IMR) is a little different burn rate than 296/H110 and just worked better for that load.

It is just below the max. load for handguns, so is plenty safe! The exact load is lost in the cobwebs of my mind, but this will give you someplace to start.

Ivan
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:54 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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I never had a pistol caliber model 94, I've had 3 Marlin 94's and 2 Rossi 92's. All worked well. Except well worn Marlins get into problems with 38 Special loads feeding. (that has to do with the lever extension wearing a grove in the bottom of the elevator.) Think of a 357 lever action as a Cowboy M1 Carbine!

Ivan
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:59 PM
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I just put a Winchester 1873 Short Rifle in 357 on order at my LGS. Love the shorter lever stroke over the 94.

Model 1873 Short Rifle Color Case Hardened
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:22 PM
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A 158 gr loaded with 13.5 grs. of 2400 chrono's at 1243 fps. out of my 4" revolver and 1677 fps. out of my 16" Rossi 92 .357.

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Old 09-10-2018, 11:11 PM
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For a short time I had a 94 Win in 44 mag but never shot it. It was also the rifle version. Guy that bought it won't part with it.

Ivan that was a great post...357 Lever gun is a cowboys M1 carbine. Perfect!
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:14 AM
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17.0 grs of 296 under a 158 gr Hornady JHP chronographs right at
1800 fps out of my 18.5" Marlin .357. Lil Gun is supposed to be the
powder to use for the highest velocities from a .357 rifle. I've got a
can but I haven't tried any loads with it yet.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:26 AM
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I have been lead to believe l'il Gun runs lower pressure but a bit higher temps than other powders
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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I have a 94 375 rifle and use H322 or H4198 with the 200gr Sierra.

With the 220 Hornady I use H4198 for around 2200fps.

One manual list the 255gr Barnes with IMR3031 powder for 1903_2051fps.

Reloading is the way to go, with the cost of the ammo, if you can find it.

Good shooting.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
I don't know. I can only speculate that because the bullet is stuck in the barrel longer, pressures have the opportunity to rise higher, past max.
Newer (for me) Lyman and Lee books show identical loading for each.
Actually pressure peaks right after the bullet leaves the case.
The higher velocity is caused by virtue of having the pressure act on the bullet for a longer time.
Seems strange but once you realize the pressure peaks at just after the bullet seperates from the case then it makes sense .
Gary
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeet 028 View Post
I have been lead to believe l'il Gun runs lower pressure but a bit higher temps than other powders
This does seem to be true but the higher temps don't seem to
be a problem in rifles like they are in revolvers. My Marlin has
micro groove rifling so I plan to only use jacketed bullets in it
for full power loads. I don't think you can load enough l'il Gun
in a .357 case to exceed the pressure limit of the .357 Mag.
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Actually pressure peaks right after the bullet leaves the case.
The higher velocity is caused by virtue of having the pressure act on the bullet for a longer time.
Seems strange but once you realize the pressure peaks at just after the bullet seperates from the case then it makes sense .
Gary
I make no claim to being a ballistician or anything of the sort and I get the velocity part. But I was speculating as to why the reloading manuals were specifying lower (slightly) charges for rifle than pistol when the rifle should be stronger than pistol.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:06 PM
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Ditto on trying Lil'gun.. it does run hot, but velocity and accuracy have been phenomenal in my Rossi. I am running a Zero 158 JSP and a max to a bit over max load of Lil'gun.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:46 PM
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In Nevada I learned to try and keep my ammo at under 92 degrees
to keep the powder from kicking into high gear.

I also kept my ammo in the winter time in my shirt pocket to
keep the 1st shot out of my rifle at its highest fps for best results.
Extra rounds in the magazine could be as much as 60 degrees colder and drop in fps, maybe causing a miss.

The "Slow rollers" need all the help they can get........
unlike my "Hot Rod" 30-40 Krag.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:50 PM
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I learned about temperature affecting some ammo many years ago. I loaded some shotshell loads at very low pressure/velocity shot ok in the summer. Try shooting them in the winter and they would not function a semi auto and quite often sounded really funky. Surprisingly the low pressure really made patterns tighten up on trap loads for summer use.. I happen to have quite a bit of L'il Gun and really like it in the Hornet. Never really shoot that round so quickly to get a rifle too hot. Handguns are a bit different. Got to try it in this 357.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:09 PM
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I was told that velocity could increase by as much as 40% in a rifle barrel, so the caution would be for lead bullets especially.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:08 AM
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My trappers in 44 and 357 are both very accurate. They are 94 AE models that are US made. MOA is doable with Williams peep sights.


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Old 09-12-2018, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
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My trappers in 44 and 357 are both very accurate. They are 94 AE models that are US made. MOA is doable with Williams peep sights.
This is a US made AE also...but the rifle. It may be capable of MOA as it seems accurate. But I'm not capable....at least now...the 8 yr old brung something home from school to share...course I caught it...and she just brought it here...she didn't catch it Coughing and hacking all the time. I wanted to shoot...and load. Gotta have a cuppa Joe at the least.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:32 PM
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If you run across a lb of MP300 try it in the rifle. If you are in Bozo try Selway Arms.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:56 PM
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I have shot deer with a 6" at 75 yards........
never was able to shoot a 20" barreled .357 on deer.

I would think 150 yards is doable, don't know about 200 yards, though.
A BIG bullet with enough energy might work. I never really gave it any thought.

What is the maximum range for the 357 on deer out of a rifle?
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
A quick check of a couple of manuals indicates lighter loads of H110 for the rifles than for handgun. Of course while achieving much higher velocities in the rifle.
I haven't checked other calibers or manuals, but the Speer manual H110/W296 load for their 300gr bullet in the .44 Mag is lower rifle load section because the bullet has to be seated deeper in order to insure functioning in all rifles.


Here's some chron results for Lil'Gun in the .357 Mag - different guns/barrel lengths:

Beartooth 185gr LFNGC (yes 185gr not 158gr)
New WW Cases
Fed 200 Mag
14.7gr Lil'Gun
1.595 OAL
Chron 4 Paces fr Muzzle
Temp 75 Deg

Marlin 18" ------------- 1,713 fps
Ruger BH 6.5" ------- 1,388 fps
Ruger SP101 3+" --- 1,161 fps
S&W M60 3" -------- 1,175 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1 7/8" 1,023 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1 7/8" 1,007 fps

Last edited by Paul105; 09-12-2018 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgianni View Post
If you run across a lb of MP300 try it in the rifle. If you are in Bozo try Selway Arms.
For some odd reason I think I may have a pound of that powder. Picked it up during the great drought of a year or two back. I'll have to look up data for it. My wife made me spend quality time with the doctor today so maybe this "flu" stuff will go away. I finished loading the 222 so may try loading some heavy bullet 357 soon. Gun show this weekend so maybe I can find a few more 357 cases
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeet 028 View Post
Posted about it in another thread. It is a 24 inch one. I've never loaded specifically for a rifle in a handgun caliber. I'd like to take advantage of this rifle's extra bbl length. Any tips or pointers for loading the 357 for rifle. I am just starting to cast some 357 429 hollowpoint bullets that I am going to powder coat/bake whatever you call it and would like to try some in it but have many many 180 gr(and some larger) jacketed to load too. Help??
Due to time constraints, I haven't read every reply to your query.

Firstly, congratulations on your new acquisition. Used within intended range, there isn't much your rifle can't do. If an arrow at 300 FPS call kill North America's largest deer (moose), your rifle will do it just as dead.

Secondly, your choice of 180 grain bullets is beyond wise. My guess is a hard cast 180 grain .357 Mag bullet would shoot through-and-through a moose's chest.

Hand loading hunters have idiosyncrasies. Many try to wring out the last FPS of their loads. I can't write that I didn't go there in youthful indiscretion. Max velocity ain't necessary to kill big game. Hence, I load for accuracy.

I'd probably look in to 180 grain Partitions for jacketed bullets, assuming Nosler still makes 'em.

H-110 & 2400 used to be staple powders for the .357 Mag. There have been a lot of new powders devolved using modern technology combined with refined chemistry. I keep reading of VV having developed what might become new industry standards. My take is not fixing what isn't broken. You can't go wrong with H-110 & 2400.

While you haven't mentioned whether you're a big game hunter, your rifle is. If you do intend to fill tags with it, please post photos of your successes.

I wish you many happy hunting and shooting years with your new rifle.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I am not a big fan of 296/H-110 so don't really use it very often. I do use 2400 and 4227. I do like L'il Gun. The vast majority of bullets I will use in the rifle are jacketed. I do use lead in my handguns. I figure if I get leading in the rifle it will be harder to remove...although I can use mercury to do that job. PITA in a rifle even so. No I'm not mad as a hatter. I may shoot a deer out the back window cause the ranges are pretty short. I have an old 64 Win in 32 Sp I shoot lead bullets out of for that purpose. But I have a gun carrier mounted on the 4 wheeler and can carry this rifle in it for coyotes etc around the ranch. I have shot this rifle a bit so far and it's kind of a fun shooter. I found some Sierra 170 gr bullets too and 6 boxes of 50 new unprimed brass I don't ever remember buying... So I think I am good to go for a little bit. I do want to find a receiver/peep sight for it though.
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