Howdy folks,
I've been loading .380 for a couple of mil surp autoloaders .
Some of you guys helped out when I was settling on a load and
thanks for that !
What I have been running is real old school.
95gr FMJ over 3gr Unique with an AOL of .972 .
Works great in my two European blow back guns.
Last week I picked up an interesting "little" offering from Beretta.
Its a 3rd generation Pico.
They have smoothed out the bumps and I'm well pleased with the little guy and because I'm a hand loader I tried my .380 load in there and it wasn't strong enough to cycle the gun.
No big deal. I'll tool up a round for the Pico.
This gun is rated for +P and as such has a very strong recoil spring , so strong in fact that folks complain about it. Beretta has changed the spring and in fact its fine. It functions as intended and as stated , but I want to run some practice rounds through the thing so here are my questions:
Any of you own this pistoleta ?
Any body load for it ?
Any one have any thoughts about the excess rigidity of the factory spring which Beretta is not offering any variations of, there by precluding the possibility of any tuning by varying the spring strength?
Finally, I have one reloading book the Richard Lee that would allow up to a compressed 4.6 gr charge of Unique for this round.
Not so sure I want to start out that hot. But in your experience can I go this hot ? The gun is rated for +P .
Thoughts ?

This is a very small capacity case and there is little room for error when approaching even a near maximum load. Use the Lee book for reference only. Lee didn't necessarily shoot these loads; they compiled the data from others sources. Often the Lee book does not identify a particular bullet, only the weight. This is not enough information for the handloader.

Get at least one other current loading manual, a Lyman would be a good start. I have loaded for several .380s. I don't know what a "Pico" is, but that Unique load sounds excessive to me, though it may not be. I'd have to research it with several manuals. Best to check a variety of sources for comparison and stay away from Internet information that doesn't come from the website of a reputable manufacturer or distributor.

I use Win 231 or Aillant power pistol for mine, no complaints

I only reloaded for one blow back .380 a long time ago but I have two thoughts. First, in the U.S. there is no recognized .380 +P. Here's a link to established pressure standards: https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...MI_CFPandR.pdf If the gun is actually stamped +P or +P is in the instruction manual you'd have to ask Beretta if +P means anything specific for their engineers. Other wise you go above book loads as an experimenter. Second, if Wolff does not offer recoil springs I'd buy an extra factory spring and clip off coils until the target loads functioned.

Back in my younger days when I did load for the 380ACP, I started with Unique as well.

Eventually I switched to 231 and really liked the change. For me it was cleaner burning. Less powder yielded greater velocity.

I went from 4 grains of Unique to 3.1 grains of 231 with my 95 grain FMJ or JHPs

You're going to work this one backward. You have a load the works the slide. Now you going to go backwards. Start cutting back on the Powder till you get one the works. add 1/4 gram more to play it safe and that's your range ammo. I know you know this one. Never use reloads for SD ammo.

Rick

"Technically" there is no +P rating for the 380 ACP

What is advertised is just max loads or a tad over.

Try a little "faster" powder like HP38/Win 231

Or use a better load of UNIQUE (3.0 gr is a mouse fart)

Buy some actual manuals like RCBS and Hornady

For the new little pistol, take the empty gun and rack the slide at least 100 times. Rack the slide back and lock it back leave it for a day or so,

Rack the slide 100 more times

You are "breaking it in" without shooting it

The Lee Manual is just data collected from other places and has not change in 100 years!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks. What are your gr. weights ? Just a range, no need to be too specific. No liability on your part.

Yep , no wolff springs for this one. I like your suggestion though. I want a load that cycles all my .380 pistols. Don't want to be changing my powder drop for every gun. Thats nuts.

Thanks , That gives me a range of gr. weights .

I have the Lyman which recommends a much lighter load than the Lee. The Lee has a ton of data but it does seem a bit random at times.
The whole +P thing is a murky designation at best. Folks buy these little pocket guns and want to load them with small nuclear devices , or so it seems. Its a market that seeks to meet a perceived need that may not exist.
So Beretta makes this little gun that the grannys who buy it are unable to operate because they beefed up the springs to withstand a +P (whatever that may be) cartridge. Then they are forced to modify the product with lighter springs .
I can operate the slide just fine as it is. My pistol has the lighter factory spring . Still its too stiff to cycle my 3 gr load.
Its interesting to me. Great engineering but with a customer in mind that is , shall we say inexperienced in the handling of firearms. Seems like a weird position for a company to be in.

I only loaded cast bullets when I loaded for several .380s. I used bullets from 93 grs. to 122 grs. Jacketed bullets may and probably will respond differently to powders from both accuracy and velocity perspectives.

I tried a variety of powders including Unique, Blue Dot, Herco, 231, and Bullseye. Best overall powder was easily Win. 231. Bullseye may have been second. Lots of other powders may also work well.

Find a load that functions in the gun reliably, is accurate, and one you can hit with consistently. Don't worry about +P. If you "need" +P velocity, you "need" a bigger cartridge than the .380.

Test accuracy at 25 yards from a solid benchrest using good technique. This will quickly tell you which loads are accurate. You can't do this up close because everything is accurate up close.

Ive used W231, Red Dot, and BE86.

I reload my 380's straight out of Hornady's 9th edition manual.

2.9gr titegroup, 90gr Hornady XTP with a COL 0.965".

Functions beautifully out of a S&W bodyguard 380 & Bersa Thunder 380.

For HP 38/Win 231
Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading


A 380 is what it is you can't get blood out of a stone.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I don't want blood out of a stone , I want the case out of the slide.

For a long time my standard .380 load has been 4.0 Unique with the 100 grain Berry's copper plated lead bullet. MV is just shy of 900 ft/sec. It works fine in all my .380s.

Since your present load does not cycle the gun (as mentioned, it's light) bump it up until it does..reloading 101 here..

Already been answered.

Not gonna post actual loads. but your current Unique load taint it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

[QUOTE=Al W.;140170456]Thanks. What are your gr. weights ? Just a range, no need to be too specific. No liability on your part.[/QUOT

Don't have that info handy, but it was off of the powder website

I did a series of 5 rounds from 3.2 to 4 gr. of Unique. Curious as to where the gun begins to cycle.

Yep , I know. Just thought it was curious that this one gun of all the others , while a mouse gun, the others being service weapons would not cycle the firearm.
Its a product specific question. Not a general one.

If you like Unique powder for the 380 case..............

A 124gr JHP at a OAL of 1.075" in a 9mm case
( example only )
will take a compressed load of Unique at say, 4.5 grs....... +/-.

If you switch to BE-86 powder...........
a full load will be around 5.8 grs +/-.

BE-86 is the way to go with small case ammo, if you can find it.
BE-86 max load gave me 1220fps and w231 gave me 1166fps
out of a 5" 9mm barrel.

Just a heads up.
Safe loading.

It's miniature Rocket Science.

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Still Running Against the Wind

von Braun making an error could fry many to a crisp, an error here could cost an eye or a couple fingers..

If I misspell it's 'cause I type with my 4 remaining fingers..

BE-86 is a good call. I loaded about a pound of 86 earlier this year for a 9mm load , just to try it out. It was good , I had been using Power Pistol and went back to that when the BE 86 ran out. Good call . Unique tends to fill the case rather quickly . A 4 grain charge of Unique just about leaves room for the projectile in a .380 case.
I might see if I can find some more of that .
Mail-order powder is a hassle , what with hazmat and shipping .
Not a lot of choices for powder shopping in my local.

I don't plan on pushing the load at all.
Just getting the pistoletta to cycle.

I read where this guy was trying to load 45 Colt to 44Mag velocities. This is how he shoots now..

Your just trying to help

Yep, to follow up.
I loaded groups of 5.
Unique under a 95 gr. FMJRN
Up from 3.2 to in 2 gr. intervals up to 4.2.
Everything starting with 3.4 cycled the pistol.
The sweet spot for accuracy with the FMJRN was in the 3.6 to 3.8 range.
Everything on paper at 25 yards.
Except the couple I shot at 3.2 which didn't cycle , I guess they made the backstop all right but I wasn't on my 25 yard slow fire target .
So that settles that hash.
The surprise of the evening was in shooting some 100gr plated Berrys , over 3.6 gr of BE86 at .974 OAL. I had loaded that up for an import Makarov I own thats chambered in .380.
The Pico Pistoletta was grouping with the plated rounds and the BE 86, so that might be my practice round right there.
I stopped loading that round when I found that 3 gr of Unique got the Makarov shooting well, although in fact I think I could bump that up to 3.4 and get a bit better performance.
I also was shooting my CZ 83 this evening and with 3gr of Unique that pistol with stay in the black at 25 yards all night if you stick with a jacketed projectile.
Very glad for the performance of the Pico with the BE86 and the plated projectiles.
Cheers

I think you mean "1/4 GRAIN".

There is nothing wrong with using reliable reloads for SD.
That business of reloads getting you in trouble with the justice system in SD cases is about 99.5% bogus.
It's one of those fables that gets repeated so many times that it becomes gospel, but no one seems to know of more than a couple of cases of it actually being an issue unless the reloader has loaded something that looks rather bizarre to most people.
If the shooting occurs in a jurisdiction that is so gun unfriendly that the prosecutor can send you to prison because of your ammo, you are probably already toast for shooting someone for any reason at all in the first place

An interesting point regarding the hand loads. In my state its said that we are prohibited from using HP ammo for SD. Its OK for target shooting but you can get in hot water if you use it for SD. Or so I was taught .
My plan is to stick with LRN which should take care of over penetration concerns and the states HP ordinance .
I'm going to have to read up on local laws.