Testing some .44 Mag loads with the M69

[fortyshooter]

Got out the other day to test some loads I had put together for my Model 69 with 4.2 barrel.
Bullet was the old Speer 4453 soft point 240 gr. JHP loaded with 10 gr. of Unique. COL was 1.580 and it delivered 1030 FPS with modest recoil.
In my 1 gallon water jug test the bullet stopped in the 6th jug with about .500 expansion diameter.
Not a bad combo for medium Magnum load in the L frame revolver.
I also ran a few of my 200 gr. Hornady XTP loads using 11.4 of Unique and saw 1190-1220 FPS. I had previously did jug test on that bullet and got a .650 expansion diameter.
I carry that round in the M69 for general SD use.

[The Norseman]

Thank you for the Informative Range Report/Test
and Picture.

The M69 used, is that the Current Model on S&W
website?

[fortyshooter]

Originally Posted by The Norseman

Thank you for the Informative Range Report/Test
and Picture.

The M69 used, is that the Current Model on S&W
website?

Well it is the 4.2 barrel length version I bought last summer.
A nice shooter and so far the factory grips feel and work well with the loads I shoot.

[junglefighter]

As strange as this may sound,my M69,4.25" bbl. is now my EDC w/44 Spl. Sig 200 gr. HP.

[The_Truth]

I don't mean any offense at all, just curious... what's the point of carrying a 44 Magnum if you're loading such weak rounds? The 44spl 190gr soft cast hollow cavities I will carry in my 296 are coming out at about the exact same velocity in a 2.5" as your Magnum rounds are coming out of a 3" it sounds like. I wouldn't even call your loading a Magnum loading. That's a top end 44spl loading for sure.

Like I said, I mean no disrespect. Just making conversation and would love to hear people's take on the different 44 loadings. I love .44!!!!!

[skipnsb]

For the same ballistics, I am sure the 296 exhibits quite a bit more recoil. My 342 is too stout for my wife, even with soft ammo. she carries a .357 640 loaded with light .38 loads because she feels more comfortable than with an ultralight. If I could conceal and carry a L frame as easily as the 342, I would probably carry a short 69, even if the muzzle energy was equal.

Just my opinion.

[Univibe]

Originally Posted by The_Truth

I don't mean any offense at all, just curious... what's the point of carrying a 44 Magnum if you're loading such weak rounds? The 44spl 190gr soft cast hollow cavities I will carry in my 296 are coming out at about the exact same velocity in a 2.5" as your Magnum rounds are coming out of a 3" it sounds like. I wouldn't even call your loading a Magnum loading. That's a top end 44spl loading for sure.

Like I said, I mean no disrespect. Just making conversation and would love to hear people's take on the different 44 loadings. I love .44!!!!!

This is how I load for my 629, and my 686 I call them mid-range loads: hotter than +P, but slower than true magnum.

This results in a load that lets you know you're shooting a serious cartridge, but doesn't stress you or the gun.

Consider the .44 Magnum. Factory loadings run 240 grain jacketed bullets at about 1250 fps. That's too much power for anything except certain specialized target shooting, and bear defense. A 240 grain hard cast SWC going 1000 or so fps will kill anything in North America. There's nothing "weak" about this loading. It's also an excellent personal-defense loading.

You accomplish this in .44 Mag with about 10 to 12 grains of a medium-fast powder, such as Unique or AA#5. Same thing in .357 with 158 grain SWC if you adjust the powder charge.

[fortyshooter]

According to the Speer 13th Load book the two loads I used are in mid and starting level of .44 Mag.
These are comfortable to shoot in the smaller framed M 69 and would be effective unless hunting large game.

[The Norseman]

Interesting Thread this has become.

Mr. FortyShooter's Reloading of Jacketed Bullets have
outstanding Statics. Those are Great Reloads.
Magnum pressure's and velocities are not always required.

In my Handguns I Reload exclusively (maybe 20yrs now)
with Hard cast or Hardened Cast Bullets, depending on
what I'm preparing to shoot, paper or animals.

Why you may ask, because a good Lead Wadcutter or Semi-
Wadcutter running at 850 - 1000 feet per second will stay
true, destroy, and go through anything that gets in it's way.

There are stories of the 1400 fps 45-70 bullets going through
3 Buffalo standing behind each other. I sure it was the 405 gr
bullet original loading. That is why the 45-70 is used in
Grizzly Bear Country. I've seen a 12gauge lead slug kill Bear
too, and that's not Magnum.

Plus Lead bullets are cheaper to buy and I can shoot more,
thus I practice a lot. There is less Wear and Tear on Revolver and me.
Example, a box of 45Colt runs $40-$50.
I'm reloading per 50 rounds about $8 a box.

The last time I checked Deer or Bear weren't wearing Body-
Armor.

Good Questions and Conversion.

[fortyshooter]

I happened to find those Speer JHP bullets at a gun show several weeks back and for 20 bucks not a bad deal. So I loaded them up especially for my M-69 although they would work well in my Ruger SBH too.
My other loads are based on several SWC bullets in the 240-300 gr. range at moderate speeds in .44 Mag.

An excellent .44 bullet I use for my Ruger SBH and my Henry Carbine is the Missouri Bullets Hy Tek coated 240 gr. SWC...shoots well and very clean!

Another really good one for my M69 is Matt's Bullets 230 gr. SWC with GC. Loaded with 9.5 gr. of Unique a very good shooting combo!

[The_Truth]

The 44spl +P/low level 44mag loadings are definitely not "weak" in a relative sense. I just meant relative to the power band of different 44 loadings.

I would love to get into reloading and just haven't yet. For now I'm stuck paying out the wazzoo for the best stuff I can find, like Buffalo Bore.

My 44spl carry round is the 190gr soft cast lead SWC hollow cavity clocking in at about 1005fps out of a Model 296 Ti 2", and my 44mag carry round is a 240gr +P soft cast lead SWC hollow cavity clocking in at 1425fps out of a Model 29 3". I don't really have an in between, but I do carry a speedloader loaded with 300gr hardcast lead SWC's when I'm in the woods with my Model 29, just in case things got hairy.

I can't wait to get into reloading.

[RoyM52]

I've done several different loads for my M69 2 3/4 inch but have really liked the 200 grain Gold dot. All the reviews state that if you keep it below 1000 or 1100 FPS muzzle, it not only stays together but acts like a flying ashtray. Over that and it sort of becomes an explosive round on contact.

This will do fine for my intended purpose so have been loading 19 gr of 2400 and get 965 fps {chronographed} It's pleasant to shoot and the noise isn't too abusive, but seems very destructive. I think I will stay with this load for the time being. seems to suit both me and the gun.

My tests with the same 240 gr soft point yielded between 1000 and 1050 fps using 19 grains and a cci 350 primer as a comparison between the length of my 2 3/4 inch and your 4.25 inch

[RoyM52]

OOPS....saw that you used Unique...I did some 200 gr gold dots with 9.5 gr of unique and got 950 fps. as a compare as to barrel length velocity differences. {CCI 350 primers}

[fortyshooter]

The 200 gr. Speer GD loaded in .44 Special at only 835 FPS out of my CA Bulldog delivers very impressive expansion!
YouTube

I may load some full WC bullets for it next time.

[Paul105]

Always appreciate posts with individual’s firsthand experiences. No one is the same, and therefore their preferences and needs are different.

I’ve always felt that people should shoot the gun/ammo that they enjoy and meets their needs.

FWIW, I have both 4 ¼” and 2 ¾” M69s. In one 4 1/4” M69, I’ve shot around 6,000 rnds – roughly 2/3 of those were 6.5 gr of HP38 under a 240gr CSWCBB that chronos right at 880 fps the balance were low end to full magnum 240s to 325s. My second gun has over 3,000 rounds of which 80% were the same low end to full on magnums.

Two 2 ¾” guns have over 3,000 rnds between them and all but a handfull have been low end to full 44 mags.

It’s just what I enjoy, and shoot 2 or 3 times a week to maintain proficiency. My back country carry load is 260gr WFNGC over 23.0gr h110.

The great thing about the M69s, is their versatility. Whether your needs are met with .44 specials, or full house .44 mags or anything in between, you can do it with the M69, in a smaller, lighter, more compact package vs the N Frame.

Here are some upper end loads in the M69s:

Recently chronoed some 305 gr Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo in the 2 ¾” gun.
Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F

S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps


S&W K and L frames are my favorite DA revolver platforms.

FWIW,

Paul

[Paul105]

Sitting here watching the Rams and Saints and thought the following chrono data might be of interest:

Chronoed these from the 2.75” M69. Three rounds at 5 Long paces from muzzle and 68 deg F. Larger sample could change the results a bit. Largest ES was 42 fps.

260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,125 fps
240 Zero JSP with 24.0gr H110 avg 1,126 fps
240gr Fed Factory avg 1,125 fps
265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (Deep Seat) 1,119 fps avg
325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,104 fps

For comparison purposes these were shot a while back from my 4 ¼” M69: Same temp, distance from the muzzle.

260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,224 fps
240 Zero JSP with 24.0gr H110 avg 1,230 fps
240gr Fed Factory avg 1,220 fps
265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (deep seat) 1,140 fps avg
325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,182
21.1gr A2400, 250gr Keith 429421, std primer 1,250 fps from 4 1/4” M69

NOTE: The 240gr Fed Factory load chromed 1,375 from a 7 ½” Ruger Bisley Hunter

From my previous post:
Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F

S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps

[Qc Pistolero]

Any lead slug churning along at 950 to 1050fps is nothing to be taken lightly.While I like my magnums 44 to be full magnum performers,there are days when I feel smooth and enjoy shooting those medium charged 44s.
After all,I've yet to see a grizzly charge me at the shooting range.

[fortyshooter]

Need to make a correction....Where I mentioned the Gold Dot load with 11.5 Unique. It was a Hornady XTP 200 gr. bullet.

[shocker]

For short barrel, lightweight guns like the snub 69, I step out of the traditional type of 44 loads. 200 gr bullets (cast for range use) and AA 2. That's my favorite fast burning powder.
8.5 gr - chrono'd 930 fps.
Western Powders says a maximum load is 10.0 gr. Out of a long barrel they calculate 1200 fps. I have shot that but I don't have chrono data for it.