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Old 09-22-2018, 03:54 PM
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At others recommendations I bought the Zero 240 GR JFP for the 44 mag. They seemed to work OK. Also at others recommendations I bought a Lee 44 Mag/Spl factory crimp die.

So, I went out and set it up using a Speer factory loaded 240 GR GDHP. No problem and little resistance running the cartridge into the die. I then ran one of my previously hand loaded rounds into the die. These made using Speer brass and the Zero 240 GR JFP. With these there is a fair amount of resistance and after being run into the die you can very clearly see the full imprint of the bullet in the casing.

The factory rounds had little to no resistance and the bullet left no imprint on the casing. I think these Zero bullets may be just a bit too over size. I'd rather not have to run every bullet through my lube sizer before use.

Hmmm, I need to run one of my reloads I made with the Rim Rocks 240 GR cast bullets through it.

Update: Absolutely no resistance and no bullet imprint when I run one of my prior reloads made with the cast bullets into the die.

Last edited by oink; 09-22-2018 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Update
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:50 PM
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The Lee CFCD is better suited to jacketed bullet reloading than cast. Between typical cast bullet sizing at .002"-.003" over nominal bullet diameter for caliber, and cartridge case wall variation you will find that you typically are re-sizing cast bullets "post-loading", and really do not know what diameter they end up. The die works fine for jacketed bullets.

If you use cases that are on the thin side (Remington) it works OK for cast bullets too, but you will experience a higher loss of brass because of the thin cases!
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:12 PM
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Not sure I understood your reply. The die was having no effect on the rounds loaded with cast bullets. There was no resistance running them into the die so there was no resizing of anything. I wouldn't doubt the Zero bullets got resized some and I have no doubt it was hard on the casing that were loaded with the Zero bullets. Maybe I'll set up the Lube Sizer just as an experiment.
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Old 09-22-2018, 06:50 PM
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Hello, oink. I'm curious if the labels on the boxes of Zeros you got displayed the bullet diameter. Regardless of the manufacturer, jacketed .44s virtually always come in .429 or .430. Wondering if yours were larger. Did you happen to measure them with a caliper?

I've used Zero's .357s for many years and they have given me outstanding service. I would be very surprised/disappointed to find any of theirs to be defective.

Regards,
Andy
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:38 PM
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snowman, Zero clearly states that their 44 bullets are sized at .431 diameter. I bought one of those Lee press mount bullet sizing dies in .429 to process the Zero bullets down and they caliper at around .4295-.430 after I run them through my Lee sizer die, which I do when I receive a bullet order of the .44 Zero bullets. If I had an older model 29 that tend to have larger throat diameter I wouldn't even resize them, but both my 44 guns are 90's vintage with the smaller throats on the cylinders.

BTW oink, I got rid of my Lee 44 FCD and went with the Redding profile crimp die instead. I didn't like the way that the Lee would drag going through the sizing ring when loading MBC hard cast coated bullets with most brass (except Remington brass). The Redding die is fantastic, BTW.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:49 PM
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I would not send those bullets through a sizer. You might ruin the accuracy.

You are doing a lot of worrying without shooting the ammo. Go out and shoot them and if they are accurate don't worry about the slight bullets in the case. Most times the bullets is caused by the bullet not going into the case perfectly anyway.

Shoot them before you do anything else.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:53 PM
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Wasp waisted bullets are not necessarily an issue. How do they chamber?
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:53 PM
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Actually they seemed to work OK before. I heard bragging on here about the lee factory crimp so I thought I'd try it out as it was fairly cheap. My Zero loaded cartridges looked fine, weren't wasp waisted and showed no bullet imprint when reloading using my very old Lee 3 die carbide set. I hadn't done any accuracy testing with them but the primers seem flat enough and I'm not at max loads. I tried to erase one of my cartridges with an inertial puller and that isn't going to happen. I actually knocked the lead core out but still couldn't even pull the jacket with pliers.

So, two things. I might not get any more of the Zero .44 JFP, and I was doing just fine with just my old die set without the factory crimp.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I would not send those bullets through a sizer. You might ruin the accuracy................
BLUEDOT37 has been doing this for quite a while with good results. I specifically started a thread here some time ago asking about these very bullets and resizing them or not and here is a link to his reply in the thread. <<<Link to BLUEDOT37 REPLY>>>. I have not seen any problem with accuracy with my resized bullets so far either.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:52 PM
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I have been using the Zero 44 bullets for some time in several different 44's. No problems at all but I do not hot rod them either. My impression is they are a"soft' bullet. I have shot around a thousand of them so far.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:06 PM
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I was doing 24 GR of H110. Probably not a hot rod load for a Red Hawk but I don't think i want to go any hotter in a 69.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:11 PM
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Is this (SKU 90054) what you guys are using?

Last edited by oink; 09-22-2018 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:38 AM
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Yes, that is it, oink. BTW, just looked at Midway to check the SKU number and they have it on sale for $17.99 right now, in case you are interested.
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I would not send those bullets through a sizer. You might ruin the accuracy.
I resize mine & they shoot great from me.

Not much work to do them. I've bought 2000 so far & the resizing works for me.

I do keep a few hundred unsized for my 29-2 but it doesn't see much action these days.

Thanks Muddocktor, saved me from having to find my old post.

.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:18 AM
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I got nothing out of Zero bullets.

Why do you buy a brand of bullet and then feel the need to resize them?

Do you have some odd ball revolver barrel?
Rim Rock lists .430
Zero lists .431


.001 difference assuming they are all perfectly sized.


Is all your brass exactly the same???



Comparing CAST bullets to JFP is not a valid comparison
But let the LFCD debate continue.
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:09 PM
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I had two stray (fairly old) Remington 240 GR SJHP bullets on my bench. I decided to load them up. After loading I can tell where the bullet is in the casing but no clear imprint and there was no resistance in the Lee Factory Crimp die until the very last where it did it's crimp. Unfortunately I didn't measure these before I loaded them but I'm guessing they are .429. Maybe I can find a few more.

Last edited by oink; 09-23-2018 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Corrected from Hornady to Remington
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:12 PM
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The Zeros are marketed as .431. I bought 1000 and they all seem to be about .4305. I only shoot these out of rifles or older smith revolvers with larger throats. Basically all my pre endurance N-frames have .430 or .431 throats. My one Rossi 92 44 mag has a large groove diameter also, it is is .432 and the Zero bullets shoot great out of it as does cast that is sized to .433
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:32 PM
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When I reload with ZERO bullets all my propellant falls out. Am I doing something wrong?
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
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When I reload with ZERO bullets all my propellant falls out. Am I doing something wrong?
Try a little tape or a plug of Styrofoam. In a pinch you could probably use a wadded up dust bunny or two.
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:35 PM
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When I reload with ZERO bullets all my propellant falls out. Am I doing something wrong?



It's a tough crowd here, Zilch Null
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:31 PM
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The Remington (not Hornady, I found the box and another ~50) are .4295 - .430 whereas I measure the Zero's at .430 - .4305. I was surprised that with both you can actually feel the variation as you spin the bullet in the caliper. For perfection it might not hurt to run both through a sizer.

However, I can't seem to find my sizer. I wanted to try running a couple through the Lube Sizer before ordering the Lee sizer. I did find the Remington bullets, 300 or so more probably once fired Midway 44 Mag casings and several hundred assorted cast 44s that still need to be lubed and sized, some needing gas checks. I also found my very old Lyman single stage press, the spare parts for my RCBS measure and the *** (a less than complementary acronym got bleeped) Lee progressive press, but no sizer. Darn!
--------------------
Update: Went back and looked some more. It wasn't my old Lyman press, it was the lube sizer. First off, the lube sizer isn't kind to the soft lead bullet tips especially the Remington. It did knock the Zero bullets down to .429 -.4295 and did seem to make them more concentric. I guess I'll give the Lee sizer a try.

I guess now that I have my lube sizer out I may as well do up all of the old cast wheel weight bullets I've found grubbing around. I found a couple of hundred on this last search and probably another 1500 I found in the attic a week or so ago (found a modest stash of wheel weights too). And yep, I found enough Tamarak 50% Alox lube to get er done.

It should be obvious by now that I mostly got out of reloading for awhile, except for a bunch of store bought cast 45ACP.

Last edited by oink; 09-23-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
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When I reload with ZERO bullets all my propellant falls out. Am I doing something wrong?
You are supposed to put some scotch tape across the mouth of the case.

Nice play on words there, TompkinsSP.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:13 PM
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/\ Oh, I get it now...

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Old 09-23-2018, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
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After loading I can tell where the bullet is in the casing but no clear imprint and there was no resistance in the Lee Factory Crimp die until the very last where it did it's crimp.
I started noticing a similar issue loading Nosler's 240gr JHP (.4290") in my older 44 Mag cases. (.4300" bullets were fine.) Not enough bullet-case tension using my Lee sizer die (.449" ID using pin gage), even with little to no flare. [[.449" -.020" brass thickness = .429" ID of the sized brass]]. Bought a new set of Hornady Custom Grade dies & it's sizer die (.447" ID) made all the different on the Noslers. You can see the bullet's imprint in the case now. Nice & snug.

.

The Lee Factory Crimp Die can be a problem with lead bullets if the die's ID" is too small. I've had to remove the FCD's sizer ring on a couple of mine but generally using it with jacketed bullets isn't a problem & I don't load lead bullets anymore.

If I get too much resistance from the FCD, on a certain bullet-case combination, I usually have another brand's dies I can try. The more you reload the more "stuff" you accumulate.

.

I used to depend on my digital caliper for everything I measured but I finally gave into other's suggestions that you need a micrometer for the most accurate readings. You'd be surprised at how much the digital caliper is off compared to the micrometer. Bullet diameter is one such item. (I mic the Zero bullets at .4312"). Invest in a micrometer. Good tools pay for themselves.

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Quote:
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Why do you buy a brand of bullet and then feel the need to resize them?
Too tight for .4285" & .4290" throats, IMO. Besides they're a good bullet for the price & I don't get paid buy the hour any more.

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Old 09-25-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
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Too tight for .4285" & .4290" throats, IMO. Besides they're a good bullet for the price & I don't get paid buy the hour any more.

Tight is better


If the OP is not using precision calibrated and measured BRASS then the whole equation measured down to 10/1000 t of an inch is meaningless.

Plus have any of the rounds actually be fired? What are the results?? or is this all a theoretical, hypothetical, engineering study??


Is the gun locked in a ransom rest, what variable contributes the most to the deviation in accuracy??


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Old 09-25-2018, 12:56 PM
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LOL, no I don't use calibrated brass. I do sort my brass by brand and also make some attempt to also sort by times reloaded.

Yeah, some of the rounds have been fired. Fired freehand. They all seemed to hit center mass on my test tree.

But no, I haven't fired any after running them through the new Lee factory crimp. The factory crimp was an experiment as others were advocating it. In the past I've always been happy with my normal crimp done in the seating die. But what do I know!

I haven't actually fired any through the 2.75" 69 I was making them for as it was clean. I've been testing them in my 3" 629-4.

I'm not trying to make bullseye competition rounds. I'm just looking for good combat accuracy. My eyes aren't good enough for more than that, although I'm going to the ophthalmologist in an hour, so you never know.
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:16 PM
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Load them, shot them, enjoy.


The minutia doesn't matter, unless you are really into that stuff.
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:53 PM
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240gr Zero, .431, 24.0gr WW296, WLP, 1x Fed cases. 25 yds rested on carpet square. Shot with 2 3/4" S&W m69



Same load, same gun, different day (still messing with sight setting). 25 yds rested on metal rifle rest.



Different 2 3/4" M69. 9.0gr Univ, 240gr zero (resized to .430), 25 yds rested on range bag.



The zero bullets will shoot. You may have to work a bit to find the optimum load.

FWIW,

Paul
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