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Old 09-23-2018, 08:53 PM
99bob 99bob is offline
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Default Flat Primers

I've seen flat primers, but the ones in the moon clip seem to be flater. Same batch as the top row in my box.

Nosler .357, 158 grain JHP, p/n 44841
Top row and moon clip loaded with 2400 @ 14.8 grains.

Model two rows are factory Blazer Brass 158 JHP and PMC 158 JLT for comparison.

Bottom rows are the same bullet with H110 @ 15.1 grains.

Has anyone else noted anything like this before? Should I be concerned? I double checked and these are starting loads. I crimped at the cannelure. OAL is 1.580. Good roll crimp.

Firearm is a 327 TRR8
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:11 PM
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Primers are not a good indication of excellence pressure in handgun cartridges unless they are really bad.

Those don't look all that bad to me but what do I know?
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:36 PM
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I pulled the primer that seemed to be the flatest. I personally haven't seen one like this before. Funny, my 180 grain loads aren't as flat. I(being a novice) assumed they would experience more pressure.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:36 PM
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Those do look pretty flat to me. Are they getting cratered around the firing pin too? I have no experience with 357s with moon clips or moon clips period for that matter.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99bob View Post
I pulled the primer that seemed to be the flatest. I personally haven't seen one like this before. Funny, my 180 grain loads aren't as flat. I(being a novice) assumed they would experience more pressure.
Hey, I don't claim expert status but that primer doesn't look good to me.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:43 PM
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Yes there is a slight ridge around the outside diameter of the firing pin impression. More so on the moon clip ones. There is only two that are flat as the picture I just shared.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:46 PM
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How does the load you are using stack up against what your loading manual says?

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:48 PM
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Crater picture added.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ole Joe Clark View Post
How does the load you are using stack up against what your loading manual says?

Have a blessed day,

Leon
They are starting loads. Powder measured by a PACT digital scale that I calibrate with every use. I also use check weights. Primers are Winchester Magnum Primers. All case we're trimmed to match and all primer pockets cleaned. I was very cautious with these loads as it has been a while since I loaded magnums. It's been years since I loaded a .41 Magnum. I usually do all my .45acp and .38 special, but admit I'm not as picky on those.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:08 PM
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Look pretty flat from here.How was the recoil compared to a factory load?
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:51 PM
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Look pretty flat from here.How was the recoil compared to a factory load?
Recoil was manageable, maybe 7-8 on a 1-10 scale. Factory stuff being a 6-7. Seems liked the PMC was a little more noticeable than Blazer Brass. Likewise my load was a little more noticeable than the PMC. The 2400 was a little louder than the H110. I was expecting it to be the other way around.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:53 PM
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I gotta say something isn't right. I've never had a primer that flat. I'd start over from scratch starting with the loading manual data, weighed loads. You didn't empty a powder reservoir into the wrong can of powder by chance? Again, I'm no expert but those primers would scare me. How do the cases look? Are they getting bulges near the base?
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:55 PM
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The firing pin bushing has a convex shape. When the primer is mashed into the bushing, its convex shape presses a corresponding concave shape in the primer. It makes them look flattened. If you look closely, the primer has a dished in shape. The difference between real visible pressure signs and a kaboomed revolver is not much. None of the pictures show any obvious pressure warning signs.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:07 PM
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One item I have noticed about primers can depend on who made them. I usually use CCI small pistol primers. Ran out and local dealers were out also. Purchased a carton of Federal. Same powder load, same bullet, same S&W Model 19-3. The Federal primers were flattened more than the CCI.
I do believe CCI primers have a thicker/harder cup than some of the others including Federal.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:21 PM
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Default 14.8 grains of 2400...

14.8 grains of 2400 for a 158 gr. bullet seems more like a TOP load to me. I believe that is where I start running into trouble with my .357 with locking up the cylinder. My 686 has the 'M' modification but if I get too raucous it will still lock the cylinder up, but right below that is no problem.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
I gotta say something isn't right. I've never had a primer that flat. I'd start over from scratch starting with the loading manual data, weighed loads. You didn't empty a powder reservoir into the wrong can of powder by chance? Again, I'm no expert but those primers would scare me. How do the cases look? Are they getting bulges near the base?
Nothing noticeable to the naked eye. I just compared them to the PMC brass. It's about the same, maybe a little more.

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Originally Posted by robert1804 View Post
The firing pin bushing has a convex shape. When the primer is mashed into the bushing, its convex shape presses a corresponding concave shape in the primer. It makes them look flattened. If you look closely, the primer has a dished in shape. The difference between real visible pressure signs and a kaboomed revolver is not much. None of the pictures show any obvious pressure warning signs.
Makes me feel a little better.


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Originally Posted by Simson-Suhl View Post
One item I have noticed about primers can depend on who made them. I usually use CCI small pistol primers. Ran out and local dealers were out also. Purchased a carton of Federal. Same powder load, same bullet, same S&W Model 19-3. The Federal primers were flattened more than the CCI.
I do believe CCI primers have a thicker/harder cup than some of the others including Federal.
Not a chance on mixing powders. I'm careful and only have one container out at a time. Long ago I threw away a container because I may have or may not have mixed them up as you said. Better safe than sorry.

I was wondering about the primers as well.

I'm still torn. I hate to throw these out/pull them.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:36 PM
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Default CCI has been...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simson-Suhl View Post
One item I have noticed about primers can depend on who made them. I usually use CCI small pistol primers. Ran out and local dealers were out also. Purchased a carton of Federal. Same powder load, same bullet, same S&W Model 19-3. The Federal primers were flattened more than the CCI.
I do believe CCI primers have a thicker/harder cup than some of the others including Federal.
CCI in the past was noted as a 'hard' primer. (domestic primers) I believe that the hardness of domestic primers have become more 'homogenized' over the last few years. Anecdotally, Federals were the softest. You might want to try CCIs or Remingtons.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
14.8 grains of 2400 for a 158 gr. bullet seems more like a TOP load to me. I believe that is where I start running into trouble with my .357 with locking up the cylinder. My 686 has the 'M' modification but if I get too raucous it will still lock the cylinder up, but right below that is no problem.
Alliant has it listed at that and recommends no deviation. The only thing I did different was the primer. Alliant lists the CCI 500 primer.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by robert1804 View Post
The firing pin bushing has a convex shape. When the primer is mashed into the bushing, its convex shape presses a corresponding concave shape in the primer. It makes them look flattened. If you look closely, the primer has a dished in shape. The difference between real visible pressure signs and a kaboomed revolver is not much. None of the pictures show any obvious pressure warning signs.


What does an obvious pressure warning sign look like?
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
14.8 grains of 2400 for a 158 gr. bullet seems more like a TOP load to me. I believe that is where I start running into trouble with my .357 with locking up the cylinder. My 686 has the 'M' modification but if I get too raucous it will still lock the cylinder up, but right below that is no problem.
This exactly!!!!!! You are pushing the 2400 to at or beyond max loads there.

Alliant shows a max load of 14.8 grains using a Speer 158 grain GDHP. But, if you look on the Nosler website in their load data, they show a max load of 12.3 grains of 2400 with their 158 grain JHP bullet. I am seeing some serious pressure looking at the way the primer extruded out around the circumference of the primer pocket.

BTW, how did these extract from the cylinder? Were they tight or did they come out easily?
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:48 PM
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This exactly!!!!!! You are pushing the 2400 to at or beyond max loads there.

Alliant shows a max load of 14.8 grains using a Speer 158 grain GDHP. But, if you look on the Nosler website in their load data, they show a max load of 12.3 grains of 2400 with their 158 grain JHP bullet. I am seeing some serious pressure looking at the way the primer extruded out around the circumference of the primer pocket.

BTW, how did these extract from the cylinder? Were they tight or did they come out easily?
I don't understand the 12.3 grains of 2400 as a top load. That to me is a medium load in a .357.

PS: My Lyman book says 14.9 gr 2400 is the max.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:54 PM
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This exactly!!!!!! You are pushing the 2400 to at or beyond max loads there.

Alliant shows a max load of 14.8 grains using a Speer 158 grain GDHP. But, if you look on the Nosler website in their load data, they show a max load of 12.3 grains of 2400 with their 158 grain JHP bullet. I am seeing some serious pressure looking at the way the primer extruded out around the circumference of the primer pocket.

BTW, how did these extract from the cylinder? Were they tight or did they come out easily?
They came out fairly easy. I've had worse with factory ammo. I didn't have to "pop" them out. Just a simple extraction. I will look into Nosler's info. Thank you for sharing that information.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:07 AM
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Yeah, I know that looking at primers in pistol cartridges isn't the best way to look for pressure signs, but I've also never seen primers extrude around the pockets like that before without also seeing other signs of high pressure, such as sticky extraction. And this isn't just confined to reloads either. Back in the 80's is when I first came across PMC ammo and I remember buying some 357 Mag of theirs that was extremely overpressured. They were extremely hard to extract; had to use my boot heel on the extractor to kick them out of the cylinder on my 27-2 and the primers were as flat as yours, with some extrusion around the primer pocket like yours too (not as much though). That gun isn't cut for moon clips. I was glad it was an N frame 357 with that box of ammo.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
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I don't understand the 12.3 grains of 2400 as a top load. That to me is a medium load in a .357.

PS: My Lyman book says 14.9 gr 2400 is the max.
Regardless. I made a rookie mistake and thought I knew everything. I appreciate the heads up and the great information.

Give me some props for being aware enough to stop shooting them and ask questions. Did you all notice I shot very few out of my box. This was first time out with these loads. One of the first things I do is check for pressure signs and bullet jump. I was second guessing myself, but threw the moon clip in. They are flatter on the moon clip.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
Yeah, I know that looking at primers in pistol cartridges isn't the best way to look for pressure signs, but I've also never seen primers extrude around the pockets like that before without also seeing other signs of high pressure, such as sticky extraction. And this isn't just confined to reloads either. Back in the 80's is when I first came across PMC ammo and I remember buying some 357 Mag of theirs that was extremely overpressured. They were extremely hard to extract; had to use my boot heel on the extractor to kick them out of the cylinder on my 27-2 and the primers were as flat as yours, with some extrusion around the primer pocket like yours too (not as much though). That gun isn't cut for moon clips. I was glad it was an N frame 357 with that box of ammo.
I can relate. I'm still going to shelf these and start again. Maybe I'll pull them on a rainy day.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I don't understand the 12.3 grains of 2400 as a top load. That to me is a medium load in a .357.

PS: My Lyman book says 14.9 gr 2400 is the max.
Yeah, my old and newer Lyman books says 14.9 but my Sierra 3rd shows 15.3 and my Speer #10 shows 15.9. However, my Hornady 4th Edition lists a max of only 13.5.

Regardless, the signs reported scare me and that Scandium frame is probably not the best platform for particularly hot loads anyhow. A Super Redhawk might be more appropriate.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:57 AM
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For your information, here is the data Nosler lists for their 158 grain JHP bullet. I took a screen shot of the page for you to look at the data:

Flat Primers-nosler-158-loading-data-jpg
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Old 09-24-2018, 06:39 AM
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Excellent catch muddocktor!!!

2400 is all over the place in the 357. Lyman 49th has max 14.9gr, speer #12 has max at 12gr and change, hornady has max at 13.5gr.

It's the design of the bullet and how much of that bullet is seated in the case/case volume.

2400 is 1 of those powders that has what's known as diminished return. That's why I like it so much & use it in anything from 38spl's p+ loads to 308w's.

Diminished return and a chronograph:
If you work your 2400 loads up (ladder test in .3gr increments) and shoot them over a chronograph you will see the velocities steadily rise as the powder charge increases.You will get to the point that there will not be as much of an increase in velocity per ladder jump as there was in the beginning of the ladder test. That's called diminished return. No increase in velocity/minor increase in velocity but an increase in pressure.

Typically this is where I stop. No since in increasing pressure with no real gain in velocity. You will find that your sd/es will be at their best also.

FWIW:
I use 14.7gr of 2400 to push a cast 158gr hp in the 357's. Most of that bullet is outside the case/in the huge hp of the bullet. I could go up to 15.3gr of 2400 for a max load. But when I did the ladder tests with that 2400/cast bullet I found that after 14.7gr there wasn't much return velocity wise. Just more pressure.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
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Excellent catch muddocktor!!!

2400 is all over the place in the 357. Lyman 49th has max 14.9gr, speer #12 has max at 12gr and change, hornady has max at 13.5gr.

It's the design of the bullet and how much of that bullet is seated in the case/case volume.

2400 is 1 of those powders that has what's known as diminished return. That's why I like it so much & use it in anything from 38spl's p+ loads to 308w's.

Diminished return and a chronograph:
If you work your 2400 loads up (ladder test in .3gr increments) and shoot them over a chronograph you will see the velocities steadily rise as the powder charge increases.You will get to the point that there will not be as much of an increase in velocity per ladder jump as there was in the beginning of the ladder test. That's called diminished return. No increase in velocity/minor increase in velocity but an increase in pressure.

Typically this is where I stop. No since in increasing pressure with no real gain in velocity. You will find that your sd/es will be at their best also.

FWIW:
I use 14.7gr of 2400 to push a cast 158gr hp in the 357's. Most of that bullet is outside the case/in the huge hp of the bullet. I could go up to 15.3gr of 2400 for a max load. But when I did the ladder tests with that 2400/cast bullet I found that after 14.7gr there wasn't much return velocity wise. Just more pressure.
Great information. Explains how I tripped and fell on this. I assumed. I'm just glad I was paying attention. I wish I was paying more attention while gathering my load data.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:44 AM
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Doesn't look abnormal to me.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:45 PM
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Like I said in my first post, primers are not a good indicator of high pressure in handgun ammo, especially since the OP is Bellingham there was no sticky extraction.

I can tell you, when I was shooting factory ammo all the 158gr Winchester .357 Magnum ammo I shot had primers which were flatter than those. If the only indicator you are seeing are the flattened primers I wouldn't worry.I

Edit:
Here are some new max book loads with 2400
Speer #15
158gr Speer GDHP 14.8gr @ 1265 fps 10" barrel
Hornady #10
158gr Hornady XTP 14.3gr @ 1200 fps 10.5" barrel
Nosler #8
158gr Nosler JHP 12.3gr @ 1520 fps 8.3" barrel ( I DON'T SEE HOW THIS VELOCITY IS POSSIBLE)
Lyman #50
158gr Hornady JHP 14.9gr @ 1279 fps 4" barrel
Alliant Online Data
158gr Speer GDHP 14.8gr @ 1265 fps 10" barrel

It looks like all the sources but Nosler agree on the max charge and velocities with a 158gr jacketed bullet and 2400. Older sources have even higher charge weights. I would say 14.8/14.9gr is a safe and charge especially since that's what the powder manufacture is telling us.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:49 PM
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I can tell you, when I was shooting factory ammo all the 158gr Winchester .357 Magnum ammo I shot had primers which were flatter than those.
I respectfully call BS on that.
I have shot many factory .357s most of which were 158 GR. at many qualifications. Being a scrounger reloader I scrounged the brass I shot and that of many others, used it for years and still have it. I've never seen a primer as flat as the example he pulled. I think the flattest primers I remember were from some Geco brand I bought many years ago, but they weren't anything like as flat as the OP's.

Otherwise I don't claim expert status and the rounds in question may be just fine. But they would scare the **** out of me.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:44 PM
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Why in the world would I say that unless that's what I have seen? I also specifically said 158gr Winchester ammo, not all 158gr ammo. There was nothing respectful in what you said.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:59 PM
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I'm sorry if I offended you. That was not my intent and I should have been more diplomatic in expressing my disagreement.

Furthermore, out of curiosity I went and looked in my storage closet. I saved many of the boxes the Dept. ammo came in and put my reloads back in the boxes. Most of the boxes are Win. 145 GR Silvertip. There is some Win 158 GR but most of the boxes are the 145 Silvertip, so I can't confirm my previous statement.

They currently contain 160 GR gas checked cast lead (wheel weights) SWC on top of 6.5 GR of 231 and probably CCI Mag primers but I didn't mark the primers on the box. Looks like about 8 boxes still loaded. I think I need to go shoot the new (to me) 6" 19 I bought at the LGS a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:48 PM
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Primers are not necessarily indicators of excessive pressure unless totally "Nailed" or blown primer pockets, and "nailed could be excessive head space.

OPs orig pictures ARE NOT FLAT flat primers.

15.0gr of 2400 under a 158gr bullet (unless a full wadcutter or maybe w/mag primer) is not going to be a problem in any .357 Magnum rated revolver.

Nosler manual for handgun ammo is an outlier -- if you don't believe, compare .44 Mag and .454 Casul to other manuals.

FWIW,

Paul

Last edited by Paul105; 09-24-2018 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:19 PM
Misskimo Misskimo is offline
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My 460 primers are almost alway flat. If the cases come out . U good .
also My factory 300 Ultramag Rimington shells are flat. But not as flat as the 460
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99bob View Post
What does an obvious pressure warning sign look like?
The pressure warning I use in a S&W revolver is difficult extraction. I consider that the first and final warning. The only reliable visible sign is a kaboomed revolver. Rugers have a flat area around the firing pin so you can see a really flattened primer. Excessive case head and primer pocket expansion are good pressure indicators but aren't really visible. Sticky extraction happens before this in my experience.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:21 AM
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I have shot a Lyman 358156 with a gas check and 15 grains of 2400 for years in my model 27 revolvers. Never had an issue with flattened primers or sticky extraction. I did change from magnum primers to standard.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 Man View Post
I have shot a Lyman 358156 with a gas check and 15 grains of 2400 for years in my model 27 revolvers. Never had an issue with flattened primers or sticky extraction. I did change from magnum primers to standard.
Nice!!!
The lyman 44th edition (1967) lists a 5" bbl/max 2400 load 358156 bullet:
15.0gr 1270fps
The lyman 3rd edition cast handbook (1980) lists a 4" bbl/max 2400 load 358156 bullet: 14.0gr 1299fps 41,900 cup
The lyman 49th edition (2008) lists a 4" bbl/max 2400 load 358156 bullet:
14.0gr 1299fps 41,900cup

The lyman 3rd & 49th also list the 358311 160gr bullet with a max load of 15.5gr of 2400 1344fps 39,700cup

The 358311 uses more powder but yet has a lower pressure. Must be a seating depth thing/how much case capacity the bullet takes up.

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Old 09-25-2018, 04:00 AM
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Odd
I always thought the 1st sign of over pressure was primer flow where the fp hit.
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:18 AM
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The individual firearm involved can have some effect. Even at moderate pressures it is possible for the primer to be forced to the rear early in the ignition/combustion cycle, then the cartridge case head is slammed back against the recoil shield (or slide breech face), reseating the primer in the primer pocket with the flattening effect.

The primer cup circumference being peened out into the radius-cut of the primer pocket entrance may support this theory. I can't detect it from the photos, but I suspect that the primer cup, around the firing pin indentation, may show markings from the milled surface of the revolver's recoil shield.

Obviously, firearms with greater clearances are more prone to this than those with closer clearances. Ammunition loaded for military use will usually have the primer crimped in place to reduce or prevent this from happening, particularly in automatic weapons firing from an open bolt (Browning MG, M60, Thompson, M3, and others).
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:11 AM
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Kind of late to the party. but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
I had a S&W 929 and noticed I was getting extremely flat primers.
( see attached picture)

9mm, 147gr coated or plated bullets, Federal primers and 3.5 grs. of Bullseye ,,
850 fps average. Not really a barn burning load.

I didn't have flat primers with the same load in my 9mm autos.
And I never noticed the problem with my other moonclip guns.

FWIW,, 14.8 grs of 2400 with a 158 jacketed bullet is a bit warmer than I run my 357's.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:27 AM
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Revolver primers kind of lie because of the nature of the beast. In order for a revolver to revolve there has to be some headspace to allow the cylinder and case head to turn. When fired the case rim is first driven tight against the cylinder, then on actual firing the case is slammed back against the recoil shield (the primer against the firing pin bushing). This movement causes more punishment to the back of the case than something like a bolt action rifle where the headspace can and should be at a minimum and the caming action of the bolt locks the case head tight against the bolt face. Because of tolerances between case heads your going to need some extra headspace in a revolver. Plus a revolver with endshake is going to add to this as the whole cylinder is shoved forward by the firing pin striking the primer then slammed back by the explosion.

Take a bunch of S&W revolvers without recesses to keep it simple. With the cylinders pressed all the way forward stick a .060 stack of feeler gauges between cylinder and recoil shield at firing pin bushing. That is the minimum for case to get into position. Now add thickness to the stack and get your true headspace. The results will vary some gun to gun and the more endshake you have the more its going to be. You could also use a chambered fired cases and thin gauges behind the case head. There has to be some clearance for the case to turn into battery, just like a very tight barrel to muzzle gap binding with a little crud a .001 final headspace is going to be a problem at some point. The actual head space with .000 endshake or cylinder pressed back is held by the center of ratchet. This can actually be stoned down to reduce headspace (but increase endshake which can be shimmed out increasing barrel to cylinder gap)

Point is the necessary larger headspace needed on a revolver causes the case to get slammed into recoilshield/firing pin bushing and that makes looking at primers way different than rifles with their much tighter headspace. Revolvers with max headspace are going to show more primer change than those with minimum at the same pressure. Poor way to read pressure in a revolver. a chronograph on the other hand will tell you way more. Takes pressure to get velocity.

A 357 with moon clips should still headspace on the outside area of the cylinder face. That is how my 45 cold cases headspace in the ones I have cut for moon clips. 45 acps and 9mms in cylinders might still head space on the case mouth, but maybe on the moonclip. Slightly thin clip and a bit of a loose cut on the extractor groove= more headspace, thick clip, tight groove=min headspace

Last edited by steelslaver; 09-25-2018 at 08:40 AM.
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  #44  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, my old and newer Lyman books says 14.9 but my Sierra 3rd shows 15.3 and my Speer #10 shows 15.9. However, my Hornady 4th Edition lists a max of only 13.5.

Regardless, the signs reported scare me and that Scandium frame is probably not the best platform for particularly hot loads anyhow. A Super Redhawk might be more appropriate.
...my old Sierra book. It probably sez 16.8 gr max.

Let's also remember that ALL GUNS are different.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99bob View Post
Regardless. I made a rookie mistake and thought I knew everything. I appreciate the heads up and the great information.

Give me some props for being aware enough to stop shooting them and ask questions. Did you all notice I shot very few out of my box. This was first time out with these loads. One of the first things I do is check for pressure signs and bullet jump. I was second guessing myself, but threw the moon clip in. They are flatter on the moon clip.
It would be worse if you make an 'old pro' mistake by thinking you know eveyrthing like I do..

You checked it out. Kudos to you.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:55 PM
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I sort of agree..........

Some of those old data books did have loads that make you shutter.

Make me wonder if they did not smoke some of that "Wacky Weed"
while they were doing some of those 1970's test??
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:08 PM
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I won't try to critique your ammo or gun. I will simply tell you that I shoot S&W Model 627s in competition frequently using moonclips and 38 Short Colt brass from Starline. I load very mild loads using Vihtavouri N310 (3 grs) and Bayou Bullets 160 gr LRNs. Primers are always Federal small pistol. My primers look like yours after firing. I suspect the flatening/dishing of primers is purely a function of the physics of moonclips and frame-based firing pins.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:05 PM
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Most likely a headspace issue with the moonclips.
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