.38 Super loading veterans.....

[Old Corp]

Picked up a no-frills RIA 1911-A1 in .38 Super not long ago.
It's slide is away on a trip to Novak as these ol' eyes just couldn't hang with the GI sights it was equipped with.

Picked up a set of Dillon dies and have stuck them in my old blue press.
Been using up some 9mm JHP's I've had for awhile....some Speer 100 gr JHP (made before Gold Dots came out) and some bulk Remington 115 gr JHP's.
Powders I have on hand that are apparently useful are Unique, WSF, Blue Dot AA-7 and AA-9.
Ordered some once-fired assorted brass and found it's not all that easy to come by, or as cheap as mere commoner rounds.

Looked at printed data (you know you've been loading awhile when many of your books show data for discontinued powders) as well as online sources.

I'll not be using the pistol for competition and really wish to use loads in the upper limits of .38 Super performance. Somewhere in the realm of .357 performance is what I'm looking for.
The RIA has a ramped barrel, fully supported chamber.

This pistol will see mostly field duty or occasional CC.
It did show pretty good accuracy with some factory ammo I ran through it, using the GI sights and resting on sandbags before I shipped the slide off.


Many articles cover using everything from .355, to .356, to .357 bullets.
What's your take on that? I've not shot any of the .355 bullets I've loaded, and have found some .356 JHP's online, both 121 and 125 gr. (Zero brand)

If I get the .356 bullets, reckon I could also load them in my 9mm's? Or, get the .355's and use them in both?

All of my .357 125 gr. JHP's are really revolver bullets with cannelure and exposed lead. Not sure how they'll feed or perform.

Any pointers from the collective wisdom here appreciated.

[Wee Hooker]

I just started playing with the 38 super last year so my experience is limited.I have the same stock RIA pistol and a drop in barrel for my Sig Elite 40 cal 1911 as well. I'd be interested to here more on your sight upgrade when you get it back.

Anyway, my load info/guidance mostly came from Competition orientated sites on the web and are mild to moderate at best. I'm still experimenting but I do like Unique and and .356 bullets in 125-130 gr. ( Honestly, I shoot these in most of my 9's these days as they seem to group tighter with the bigger bullet.).
FWIW, I got into the 38 Super mainly because I like developing new loads and learning about new calibers. For what I'm doing, I don't see any advantage over my 9mm 1911's. I'm not a fan of chasing the brass like it's gold either :-)

[Old Corp]

Thanks Dave.
Much the same here. I like learning about 'new to me' cartridges, and the history of the Super is really interesting to me too.

Already have various 1911's in .22, 9mm, 10mm and all the usually-seen barrel lengths in .45. Didn't have a Super.

Thanks...

-------------
Lynn

[M29since14]

You can forget about getting real .357 revolver performance from your .38 Super. The Super is basically a 130 at 1200-1250 gun. That’s a long ways from a full-charge .357.

I use .355” 9mm bullets in my Supers, namely the plain-vanilla Remington 124 gr JHP. I find I can buy them for a reasonable price (usually) and they are accurate. I like HS6 powder, but you might get another 50 FPS or so with Longshot, if that matters to you.

I do have one gun that prefers 147 gr bullets so you might try that weight in your gun, too. That particular gun has a Bar-sto barrel. It will shoot 1/2-3/4” better with Hornady 147 gr HPs than it will with the inexpensive Remington 124s.

I like the Starline Super-Comp brass. It seems to run a little more smoothly and I have not had any extraction problems with it. Works well, for me.

[Grayfox]

I'm a fan of the 38 Super and do load for it, but I'm no expert.
.355 9mm bullets do work, but I never quite got the best accuracy out of them. Although they are accurate enough for self defense. I have played around a little with .357 125gr HPs. They work pretty good, but the jury is still out for me. Mostly I load the Remington .356 130gr FMJ (which I buy in bulk) and a friend of mine is a bullet caster who makes up 124 gr LRN 9mm bullets and runs them through a .357 sizer for me. I've had excellent results with both of these bullets.
As for powders, I've pretty much settled on AA#5. I get good velocity and accuracy out of it. I also use this same powder in other calibers. So it saves me from having to buy powder just for this cartridge.
Generally my loads with these components run about 1250 fps out of a Colt Series 80 Government Model.
I also own a RIA 1911 in .38 Super. I had to tweak it a little to make it feed right, but its a good, reliable shooter.

[Wyo]

If you’re looking for high intensity loads, AA#7 is absolutely the way to go. Properly loaded, the Super can get very close to .357 mag. loads. I get 1425 fps with 124 gr. Gold Dots in a Colt with an unsupported barrel and no sign of excess pressure. Check out this article. It is full of very useful information.
Super Powders for the .38 Super - Shooting Times

[colt_saa]

If you want 357 Magnum level performance from your 1911 you need to be shooting 9x23 Winchester and not 38 Super

[LoboGunLeather]

I have two Super .38's, both Colts, one from mid-1970's and one from the 1930's. Neither has the ramped barrel, so ammo for mine needs to be more considerate of proper feeding (something you may not have to be greatly concerned with).

Having been a bullet caster for over 40 years, I have learned that there is a lot of variation in barrels, both bore and groove diameters. This is true not just between different manufacturers, but also true with guns made by the same company. I would suggest that you slug your barrel to determine exactly what you have to work with, and not to be surprised if the result is not exactly what the spec's call for. Of my two Colts one has a groove diameter of .356" and the other is .358". Obviously, the usual .355" jacketed or .356" cast bullets will not perform the same in these two pistols. This type of variation is not limited to .38 Super; I have found even wider differences in other calibers.

Another issue that can come up is chamber dimensions. My .358" Colt barrel has a tight chamber, so I am limited to max .357" bullet diameter to assure that the loaded cartridge will chamber. My .356" Colt barrel has a more generous chamber that will accept cartridges loaded with larger diameter bullets (up to .358" have worked).

As for different bullet weights and profiles, you will have to experiment with a broad range of bullets to find what your pistol prefers. Again, comparing my Colts, one will digest SWC's without complaints, but the other requires a long-ogive round-nose profile to function properly. I have had success with bullets from 115-150 grains.

The .38 Super is a semi-rimmed cartridge. Over the years pistols have been made to headspace on the case rim, and pistols have been made to headspace on the case mouth (as is more common with pistols). Determining how your RIA is equipped for headspace will be beneficial in your loading for that pistol.

Personally, I prefer not to "hot rod" my firearms, especially vintage pieces like the older Super .38. While 1300FPS is certainly possible with the lighter bullets, pursuing that as a primary goal is walking right along the red line, and certainly not the best practice for reloading. My usual methods are to find a load that reliably cycles the pistol, feeds and ejects without issues, and strikes to point of aim. Your methods may vary, it is your pistol and your personal risk.

[Nevada Ed]

Your powder supply is good and will work for all types of loads.

The fully supported barrel is a big plus for FULL loads if you want to go there.

357 type loads..........
a pistol bullet with a .355" Dia. is plenty for SD use if it can reach 400 M/E.
This is the 9mm NATO spec's and then you get into the +P zone
which has more recoil.

The full support might be good for +P+ loads but why beat you and
the weapon with the added slide recoil and hard work outs.

A load that produces 465 M/E might be doable but it depends on your pistol. However, do not expect the cases to hold up long at these pressures, mostly if they get damaged on ejection.

There is also the fact, that your pistol might not shoot "Full loads" well.

As for the correct bullet dia..........
Plated is cheap but you might also try the coated bullets that have less friction and
actually use less powder to get the same fps, than a plated bullet in the same weight.

Have fun.

[Old Corp]

Thanks to all for the replies and info.
The RIA is set up to headspace on the case mouth.

The Shooting Times article is one I've read a few times and actually prompted my inquiry here. Some interesting info there.

Been loading a fairly long time - since the mid-70's and rarely 'hot rod' rounds for most of my hardware, but guess I'm looking at this venture a bit differently.

This is just a beer-budget pistol - don't really care if I put undue wear and tear on it. If I had a classic old Colt such was Lobo, I'd never do this to it.
And - I have far too many 9mm's. Have no interest in throttling it down to the point that I may as well be shooting a 9mm.

Part of what's interesting to me about the Super is the increase in performance possibilities of it over more mundane 9's and .38's.

Hoping to use the Super on some Coyotes after deer season at my lease. We'll see.

Thanks again to all.....

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by Wyo

If you’re looking for high intensity loads, AA#7 is absolutely the way to go...

Interesting article. Thanks for the reference.

[SuperMan]

...you are talkin' my caliber... SuperMan is not the Man of Steel but the Man of Many Supers... :-)

Have been shooting Supers since 1980 and has been my daily carry gun since that time in the form of a Commander. All my guns have unsupported chambers except for the two Kinmber Stainless Target IIs I have. Have had loads well into the 1400s with 115 and 124/5 grain bullets and never blown a case. That said with a non-supported barrel one can easily blow cases if not using the right combination and use brass that has already been stressed.

A few things to read...

http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf

38 Super

Corbon

How Does



Would also suggest that if you are going to run a lot of full power 1300 fps+ loads that you have a flat bottom firing pin stop installed and a heavier recoil and main spring. Also get some 9x23 Winchester and drop one in the chamber with the barrel out...if it drops in and headspaces correctly your gun should run them just fine with the heavier springs...most of mine do.

Favorite Bullets:
Cast:
SAECO 383 that is available from Montana Bullets Works
9mm, Saeco 383, 140gr, SWC-PB - Montana Bullet Works
or most any 124 grain TC style bullet. Have also used the Lyman 358156 Lyman/Thompson in many of the guns.

Plated:
Berry's Mfg. 124 grain FPHB
https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-9mm-356-124gr-hbfp-tp

Also use a lot of the 100 grain RNHB bullet as it matches the carry ammo I use...
https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-380-356-100gr-hbrn


Jacketed:
Was the 124 grain Hornady TC-FMJ but it is no longer made. Generally anything in the 124/5 grain weight range shoots good and FAST...

If you want to push things get a chronograph...and watch your pressure signs...

Bob