What are the con's to powder coating? Wear to barrels? Dirtier to shoot? Anything?

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

No cons to powder coating except the extra time it takes to do it VS Alox ETC.

Not many , just another way to do something. No wear to barrels and not dirty or smokey to shoot...these are pluses.
You do have to size bullet..before or after powder coating. Some folks size before coating and after coating.... Sizing twice !
You have to get the powder application process down , get an even coating on all . You have to bake the powdered bullets in an oven...standing up and not touching is best. Then get them out the oven and cooled without burning any body parts .

I have a conventional lube -sizer , paid for in 1973 , one cycle of the handle , in then out and the bullet is sized, lubed and ready to load . Even though the lube is smokier than powder ... I like the speed and I don't want to buy a oven .

Both methods have advantages and disadvantages, like skinning cats...more than one way.
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I load 45acp.. you need to flair a lot more than copper coated..

If not it removes the coating and pulls up lead.. Not my favorite coating..

The way I see it, it's another tool in the toolbox.

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Do it outdoors

To me too much time involved. My cast/lubed and fitted bullets shoot just as well in my handguns and rifles. With no leading. I see no advantage.

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S&W Accumulator

I've thought about trying them, but I have no problems with nekkid, lubed lead bullets.

I seem to recall the idea took off in Australia due to strict environmental regulations on lead pollution and spread from there. I've seen people on videos trying to use a wide variety of coatings, including spray paint, trying to make the process cheaper and easier. If you decide to try it make sure you do your homework and ask questions from those that know what they are doing.

So, you set them on their base while baking? Do you then have a raw lead base? if a bare raw lead base won't you still get vaporized lead? Are PC bullets good in factory Glock barrels?

Thanks for the replies.

I assume you are referring to "polymer" coated bullets?
Have been using exclusively for several years.
Very satisfied. Very much.

Only one very small objection:
There is a trace smell similar to burning electrical if you shoot indoors.

Just the perspective of an old hand here, but it sounds like just another gimmick.

-Do any of you remember moly coated lead bullets (before we found out the moly fouling trapped moisture)?

-Do any of you remember "soft gas checks" (that supposedly prevented leading)?

-Do any of you remember the swaging dies that worked in your reloading presses (and supposedly didn't damage your press)?

-Do any of you remember Zinc washer based lead bullets?

Don't feel bad if you don't remember or never tried them.
You didn't miss anything....

Jim

It's not a gimmick for some of us who shoot at indoor ranges. Many ranges frown on traditional lubes and PC-ed are just the ticket. I shoot number of calibers from commercial casters.

Excellent Sir: I too remember all those gimicks too. Powder coating doesn't work any better than a properly lubed cast bullet. It too shall pass.
And too the coating is an abrasive........Very fine but an abrasive.

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S&W Accumulator

I've powder coated many thousands of bullets as PC'ing was becoming popular as I was starting to cast. The biggest drawback is the time involved to do the powder coat process. As mentioned above the bullets should be sized after powder coating for consistency. Compared the lubersizer this step adds a couple minutes per every hundred bullets processed.

The setup for powder coating costs less than the setup for a lubsizer, however many people who have been casting for years already own the necessary equipment switching to powder coating isn't as attractive.

One of the biggest benefits in my mind is the reduced lead exposure when reloading and also when shooting.

If you are asking about buying commercial bullets than the small extra cost for PC bullets is the biggest drawback

Moly was a snake oil treatment, but it took a long time for some to figure that out, sort of like freezing barrels.

I can't comment on soft gas checks; never tried them.

I tried swaging handgun bullets for a while, first time about 1971, second time about thirty-five years later. It was possible to make some very accurate bullets. The process worked well, but... it was a tremendous amount of work, not to mention the cost of materials. In the end, home swaged jacketed bullets were probably more expensive than factory jacketed bullets.

The zinc washers worked very well and made for accurate bullets... but, like regular cast bullets, fit had to be just right to see good accuracy and to avoid leading. There was also an added step in the process where the washer was inserted in the groove in the hot mould.

As for powder coating, I see no advantage for my purposes. Conventional sizing and lubing works very well. When the Cast Bullet Association competitors convert over to powder coating because of enhanced accuracy benefits, I'll consider retiring my conventional equipment and start powder coating.

^^^ Hahahhaaaa! I had forgotten about the frozen barrel scam! Ranks right up there with "Global Climate Change"!

I've got limited time and already have a lubrisizer. For me that works. My cast bullets work for my purposes. Until that changes for me I don't see an advantage to me. Your needs may be different. For instance I don't shoot at an indoor range so smoke and ventilation aren't issues to me.

Heck some of my loads use Lee as cast tumble lubed bullets. Those are for my volume shoot a bunch for fun ammo which is actually one of the reasons I started casting when the commercial caster that showed up at my local gunshows got out of the busiiness.

I have and do both , cast / size / lube vs powder coating . I have seen no difference in accuracy . They do shoot with less smoke , reduce leading and some say increase velocity . Some say that is because they shoot at higher pressure . I'm not sure about increased velocity / pressure as I don't have test equipment to verify . I still lube / size many bullets and I will also continue to powder coat . I don't place mine , one at a time on a tray with some separation . I dump them in a pile in a bread pan , heat them / dump in a bucket of water afterward , done . I've seen no problems . Regards, Paul

That's been the thing that's kept me from trying it in the first place, I thought I heard a couple of places that it might be abrasive and hurt barrels, but i could never find the sources that said this when I tried to re-reference them. Beyond saving a whole pile of cash, I felt that lead bullets were also a way to train with a rifle without decreasing its accuracy life. I can run hundreds of bullets for cheap through my good hunting rifle without every worrying about it impacting its jacketed bullet lifespan, but if its going to change and degrade the barrel I have no interest in it.

The reason I do have interest in it is the claims that it will handle higher pressure/velocity with softer lead alloys. This means not worrying about specific alloys to a certain extent, also softer bullets for hunting. If it would work well, I might consider it for hunting rounds and continued higher velocity practice with my general scrap alloy stockpile, but not if its going to abrade my barrel.

Less smoke & crud is an advantage??? Get the process down it isnt that much more time really.
Btw, do you load on a progressive? If not, their is your time suck.
No real negatives but their is some addl time involved. I look at coated as cheap diy plated.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Such a gimmick that Federal now makes coated bullets/ammo?
I was slow to it but after doing about 6-7k. I doubt i go back to lubed.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Depends on how you set them up. I use small gage wire baskets. A plastic ammo tray as a jig, load the tray, invert into the basket, put in oven & bake. The bullets pop off the small gage wire & bases are still intact.
It takes me about 13m to place the 150 bullets,which is the baking time. So its just a rotating production line. I size a couple days after. Using a lee pass thru, I can size 1000 as fast as my star lube/sizer, about 20m for 1000. So a bit mor than 90m to do 1000, plus 90m to cast 1000, 3 hrs for free plated bullets not bad.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

It's a very easy process . I have found the Sherwin Williams powder much better than the stuff from Harbor Freight . Vista Green does an excellent job of coating , is my favorite . I will always do " old school " size/ lube using my RCBS lube/sizer . I suggest if you are interested in powder coating , then try it . Make up your own mind and don't listen to others . Regards, Paul

What crud? I get lube star on the muzzle. Do get some smoke but I shoot outside. And yes I load on 2 Dillon progressives.. I ain't gonna do it.....Bottom line. MY bullets will shoot just as good as yours without cooking an abrasive on them........ I'm not going to do a useless(to me) extra couple of steps that are not warranted. As stated above go read the notes from The Cast Bullet Assoc..

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S&W Accumulator

Mike, I dont care, I just answered when you claim no benefit. Crud, oh hell yes. Lead bullets with grease based lubed mixed with powder fouling produces a crusty crud on any handgun. I mAy shoot 1500rds between cleaning so lack of crud is important. Accuracy is good for me out to 50y for gun games & about 125y in my rbh hunting rig. Not trying to talk you into anythjng, I get it, old dog new tricks, I am one of those. Just wanted to be sure facts get out instead of fiction. Like I said, I was really slow to it but it dies work & no bbl wear with most coatings, myth busted right there.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Interesting. Have you actually tried powdercoating, or even shot any powdercoated bullets?
You do realize that the powdercoat used for bullets is just super finely ground plastic, right?
I'm not seeing how plastic can be considered abrasive. Especially compared to metals - like lead or copper that they are being applied to.

I probably wouldnt use metallic powders to coat, but you are correct. They are resin or plastic based. Higtek is another choice, resin based. More damage would be done to a bore by improper cleaning.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

No cons if you buy them cast and coated already.

(This is in the context of the common Hi-Tek Coating designed for bullet casting)

Also the powder coating is not an abrasive, I don't know where that idea came from. It's absurd idea and I challenge anyone to produce any sort of evidence proving that. Why would anyone design a bullet coating to have abrasive properties? (For those that have read earlier threads, 3% barium sulfate is not abrading your barrel. It's about as hard as the kernels of hot powder you're blasting through your barrel) It's just a tough thin polymer. No more damaging to a barrel than a shotgun wad. Except I've never seen any coating left behind in barrels. There is no published evidence to the contrary. Millions of coated bullets go down barrels every year to no ill effect.

I'm not trying to convert anyone away from what works for them. I don't really care how you enjoy your hobby. I just want to communicate that from the reading I have done on the subject there is very little if any discernible difference between PC lead and traditionally lubed bullets in any category you care to look at (except smoke ) The major difference I have seen is that coating bullets allows handguns to tolerate a wider range of alloy hardness without leading, which, in my opinion, is a great benefit. I like shooting, not tinkering with alloy compositions. I do enough of that in my research.

Less smoke AND less crud

fredj338 said it "cheap diy plated"! PC helps diminish some of the negative attributes of hand-loading/shooting cast lead bullets, IMO.

Lots of coaters use chalk. Like from HF and Bldg Supplies. An abrasive. what I said is I'm not going to do the 3-4 extra steps when my bullets shoot just as well.
You walk your path......I'll walk mine......We'll both end up at the same place.

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S&W Accumulator

The various powder coatings are NOT designed for a bullet coating but work extremely well. Some metallic PC probably has things in it I wouldn't want to run 30,000 times down a barrel, but just avoid those. The fillers would be the question, hence not using metallic as I do not know what the metallic is.

"Powder coating is the process of applying a dry powdered paint compound made of pigments, specialized resins and fillers that melt and fuse together during the curing process to form a painted finish. The solid powder particles are electrostatically charged when exiting the low-velocity air powered spray gun. The powder may be a thermoplastic or a thermoset polymer".

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The minute amount of calcium carbonate or other thickening agents included in a bullet powder coating cannot abrade a martensitic steel barrel at any rate that would be

1. Problematic in yours, mine, or our children's life time on its own.

2. at all comparable to, or distinguishable from, the normal wear you're causing to the barrel's surface by blowing a super heated gas and kernels of burning powder through it at 30 - 60,000 PSI.

Not to mention, the traditional lube you use of whatever recipe probably has a fair amount of abrasive particles in it just from normal contamination. This "abrasive powder coating damaging barrels" stuff is pure fantasy. If you believe it isn't, I'd suggest immediately ceasing all use of gas checks and jacketed bullets, both of which fall in the same hardness range as the minute amount of thickening agents added to powder coating formulas.

There is NO abrasives in my lube. How in the heck did you imagine that? I don't use GC's. A properly hard cast sized bullet doesn't require it. Paint your bullets and be happy. I don't care. As I said above. You walk tour path and I'll walk mine.....We still end up at the same place. Have a nice day I'm done with this.

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S&W Accumulator

There's dirt in everything, it is unavoidable. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Unless of course you're mixing your lube up in a laboratory and washing your mixing vessels in ultrasonic tanks. Dirt that's full of those nasty "abrasive" silicates, oxides, and carbonates everyone's so scared of! If that seems absurd to you then good, you understand why getting your pants in a bunch over some minor additive to a bullet coating is also absurd.

I sure haven’t found any cons for powder coating.

I have been buying and using HyTec coated bullets for a few years. Have shot several thousand .38 loads through my .357 Magnum guns. They are cleaner to reload, cleaner to shoot, and cleaner to clean the guns. Only a few bucks more per thousand, so money is not an issue, much.

However, I found I was not shooting as good scores with them. At first I thought it was me,(I'm not getting any younger you know) then I thought it might be the gun did not like them, or I might be crimping too much or something wrong with my loading technique. I found that I was shooting better with jacketed bullets and with lead, than with coated bullets. I had more flyers with coated.
Not that I am a great shot to begin with, and there is really not much difference, and it still may not be the bullet alone, as I have only done some rudimentary experiments, so my shooting is still suspect.
For my shooting, extreme accuracy at long range is not necessary and I really like the way the load, so I am not ready to go back to plain lead bullets just yet.
So, like someone sorta said above, we kinda have to do what we find works best of each of us.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Personally I don't care what anyone uses/does to their cast bullets.

To me pc'ing bullets is another tool in the box. I've pretty much switched over all my pistol/revolver cartridges to pc'd bullets. I doubt I'll ever go back to the traditional cast/lube/sized bullets.

Rifles are a different story. I still use cast/lubed bullets along with pc'd bullets in a 308w. I also use a hybrid pc+lubed bullets also. The reason for doing this is because I'm using a 308w with a conventionally cut throat. 308w's are a modern cartridge that's designed for jacketed bullets & is actually a poor choice of calibers for cast bullets. The 308w has a short neck & it's not a good idea to seat cast bullets below the neck of the cast/put the bullet in the boiler room. Cases like the 30-06, 30-30, 30-40kreg have long necks which means that longer bullets can be used along with a wider range of oal's can be used for the same bullet. Pc'd rifle bullets will add diameter to the nose of the bullet and typically cause the bullet to be seated deeper in the case. This is why some bullets I use traditional sizing/lube treatments and pc on others.

I've seen the cba competitions being brought up a couple of times now. This is why they don't pc their bullets. Custom bullets to fit custom chambers/throats. Everything has to fit perfect for a cast bullet to be accurate. Keep in mind that they are also only shooting at modest speeds, under 2000fps. The other thing to keep in mind is words/tools like bump dies come into play with the cba competitions.

Reality:
PC'd bullets don't lead & the caster/pc'er can use softer alloys for their bullets. Last I knew hunters want a softer bullet. The softer alloyed pc'd bullet can be driven a lot harder then their traditionally cast/lubed/sized counterparts. Testing alloys in a 308w, note the slower bullets shattered & the 12bhn/2300fps/50,000+psi bullet bent.


Try doing 2300fps with a 50,000+psi load using a 12bhn alloy in your 308w (1 in 11 twist) using traditionally cast/lubed/sized bullets and see what happens. All's I can say is good luck with that 1

A cheap 6-cavity lee mold, home made aluminum gas checks and pc'ing + lubing the bullets with a tumble lube 45/45/10. 10-shot group doing 2000fps+ with moa accuracy, top left.

Same cheap lee mold made these bullets for a 10-shot group doing 2679fps 1 1/2" group, pc'd bullets.


1-18-18
A picture of the throat of the custom 308w bbl.'s throat. I spent $450 & had shilen make a varmint contour 30" long 308w bbl for me with a 1 in 14 twist, 340" chamber 1.5* throat.

20 jacketed bullets, 500+ cast bullets & 1000 pc'd bullets later.


Anyone that says pc'd bullets cause bbl wear ain't got a clue!!!!

The next bbl I order from shilen will be another 308w with the same .340" chamber, varmint contour. It will be 28" long this time, a 1 in 13 twist ratchet 4-grove with no ball throat and a 2* throating reamer used for the throat. Already have the 2* bump dies made for the soft alloyed coated bullets. The 1 in 14 was made for speed (+/-2600fps with cast/pc'd bullets). The 1 in 13 will be made for accuracy with cast/pc'd bullets in the 2000fps to 2200fps range. Testing soft cast/coated bullets in the 2* bump die.


The 2* bump die doubles the land engagement of the cambered cast bullet. Better hold/better alignment ='s accuracy


Some lead, some follow & others choose not to try. To each their own.

I haven’t used my Lubrisizer since I discovered powder coating. I experimented with a Harbor Freight ES spray gun, but once I started using the DT method as described on the MP-Molds.com website I never looked back. I use an el-cheapo Wally World convection oven ($35ish), a used Cool Whip tub, black Crosman air soft bbs, Smoke’s White Aluminum (shown below) and Glossy Clear PC powder, non-stick aluminum foil and nitrile gloves. I tried some crazy colors but really don’t care for that.

Advantages:
Eliminates handling lead while reloading and shooting
Cheaper than traditional lube
Can use softer alloy and skip gas checks with no leading
Size if needed with cheap push through sizing die

Disadvantages:
Fumes while cooking, need adequate ventilation
Need dedicated toaster oven (don’t use wifey’s!)

I have not noticed any accuracy loss from PC and suspect that velocities are higher because they’re so much slicker, but have not checked that.

Attached Images

7013D757-8F58-4B74-9621-07623A871933.jpg (18.8 KB, 36 views)

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Member MVGCA, OGCA, NRA Life

Since starting PCing 6 months ago l have found it to be cleaner, faster,

cheaper, and MUCH safer for my health.. More accurate too, because

boolit size can be regulated by number of coats... My investment is app

$30. 0ven from Lowes $19. HF RED paint $6.. BBs $6..

l am neither a leader or a follower.. l am a DOER.

Don't knock it if you aint tried it.

Forrest r - Very well presented. I had given no thought to the increase in nose diameter that powder coating added to rifle bullets. All but one of the rifle bullet moulds I have will cast noses of the proper diameter, so conventional sizing / lubing will continue. All my cast bullet rifles have factory barrels.

One RCBS 200 SIL mould casts an undersized nose and accuracy was poor, as I recall, but haven't tried this mould in many years. Powder coating may be a solution.

Forrest r

What an excellent presentation. Thank you so much!

I tried coated in my 9mm with .356,.357 & .358 dia. and was not
impressed enough to but any more, or try them in my .38 special.

I still have a LOT of lead to get rid of before getting any coated for my revolvers
plus I am happy with the lead accuracy and clean up.....
they make bore snakes now.

Don't do lead in my rifles.

IF you are getting leading with any lead bullet, something is wrong. Your lube is failing, your bullets are too small or too soft for the pressures generated or your barrel is rough. I rarely clean before 1000rds in my pistols & the barrels require almost nothing to clean up. Also far less crud in the operating system. I have had to dental pick conventional lubed crud out of recesses in my guns in the past, not likely to go back to that.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Agreed, with minor exceptions regarding handgun loads. Can't see how a powder coated bullet could be any more accurate than a properly fitted cast bullet that has been sized and lubricated in a conventional manner. All guns get dirty from firing regardless of the bullet used and require cleaning; cleanup is cleanup whether it's real dirty or a "little" dirty. Time and effort are the same, unless there is leading. Leading can and should be prevented but some don't want to spend the time to learn how to do things right.

I know little about indoor shooting and the attendant problems that go with it like fumes and smoke. Sounds like powder coated bullets might offer an advantage here, be it small or significant.

As for rifles, it appears there may be advantages using powder coated bullets to make a bullet with an undersized nose shoot accurately. Being able to use a soft bullet at high velocity with good accuracy and freedom from leading is also worth exploring.

I have no experience with the powder coating process. However, from what little I think I know about it, I see powder coating as a very specialized cast bullet treatment to fill specific niches, not a general purpose catch-all process to shortcut the learning process and save a few dollars on buying the right equipment.

Not trying to persuade you but it isn't really anything specialized about the coating process, wither PC or HT. Not even sure what right equip means but coated bullets are just another choice like plated or jacketed. They have a purpose, which is to reduce smoke & crud, & if done at home, cost. A worthwhile thing if you shoot indoors or competition where you would like to see the next target & certainly in night shooting. Go touch off a conventional lubed bullet at night with a flashlight, you wont do it more than one or two rds before you see the folly of it.
Its just a diff way to do things, like Alox tumble lubed or heated Star sizer. I find coated bullets far more forgiving than plated. So I tend to use coated for most applications but my ccw ammo which is factory JHP. Yep it adds a bit of time but the trade off works for many of us & the time goes down as you figure out the process & best way to do it. I tumble coat, use a jig to stand them up, 13-14m per 150. Not a huge time suck. Sizing is the same, maybe a little faster than using a Star, way faster than using a lyman style sizer. There is no shortcutting anything either. Bullets till need to be properly sized & alloy is still important, just less so.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I don’t cast for lack of time. I do shoot a lot of cast bullets bought commercially and to me the HyTek Coated bullets are one of the greatest bargains I’ve found. The difference in raw lead and coated isn’t that much so I wouldn’t call it a real con. The 2 biggest advantages are the coated lead shoot much cleaner and you can load them as hot as jacketed without any leading problems

Hy tec is a polymer coating, PC coatings are really paint, which contains silica, which is sand. A MSDS sheet can be your friend. Whats next, spray painting bullets cause its cheap. Anyone realize what Jerry Mickalet shoots or that his brother is the founder of Hy tec in the US?

Look up the definition of the word POLYMER then compare it to what you just posted. Hint. It AIN'T paint. It AIN'T silica neither. FWIW, not all paints contain silica either. Some may, but it certainly isn't a required or universal ingredient.

Can you post a link to an MSDS for powder coating that lists silica please. Because I'm not having any luck finding one.

Odd???
I thought the pc I use is actually a polyester based product. At least that's what the mfg says. But heck what do they know.

It isn't that a pc bullet is "more" accurate then a traditionally cast/lubed/sized bullets. The reality of it is that it's easier to find accurate loads with pc'd bullets. The same mechanics apply to making an accurate load with either bullet.