A friend of mine thinks that some rifles like certain manufacturers cases over others. We are testing this theory in my rifle. Using a load and bullet that the rifle shoots extremely will, we are using batches of different cases as our variable. So far our best groups are with PMC cases. Hornaday is a close second.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Keep the same brand of cases together and the same lot number if possible. What happens is each brand case has a different capacity due to dimensions and brass thickness. It is likely you can make a suitable load for each brand of case but no one load will shoot best in all brands. I have shot a lot of benchrest with guns capable of sub quarter inch groups and that has been my experience. Primers are also a factor in group size.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

It has been my experience that, with a good rifle and a very good shooter, it can make a difference. If possible you should keep not only brands but batches segregated if extreme accuracy and consistency is what you are after.

I could easily see variances between one lot or another of the same brand, even. The benchrest guys are very fussy.

Assuming this is a bolt action rifle, do you plan to neck size only?

It should be a fun exercise.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

The rifle is pretty good. The first three rounds that I fired through it were a very tight cloverleaf. It usually shoots 1/2 or less groups at 100 yards. Not a great shooter, but was able to qualify 9 times as an Expert in the Corps with a rifle.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Yes, it is a bolt action rifle (Savage Model 11 with a bull barrel in .223).

I don't reload rifle, only handgun. A friend loads rifle for me, and for that I am thankful.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Being that this is the Smith & Wesson forum, the same can be said for "straight wall" revolver cartridges.
Powder capacity, primer pocket dimensions, case wall thickness & taper thereof, all come into play. This becomes critical when using cast bullets.
Mixed headstamps just make a waste of time invested into handloading.

Jim

PMC have worked well in my 1903 30-06 rifle .....
however I have a lot of F-C and W-W brass that I use in my other rifles .

I have found that sized and trimmed brass is secondary.....
while powders and primers are the key factors in rifle accuracy
along with bullet type and OAL.

I did notice the Rem cases seemed to neck split before the others, though.

Based on my experiences with high power rifles, especially match rifles, you may find that your friend is on the right track. For 200 and 300 yard loads, Winchester brass has performed consistently in my bolt acton match rifles with an appropriate load of IMR 4895, 4064 or VV-N140, Federal or Winchester primers and 168 grain HP match bullets.

The load for 600 yards improved dramatically with Lapua brass, Fed. 210M primers, VV-N140 and 185 grain VLD Burger bullets. The "X" count with up by 30%.

Keep up the good work and have fun!

Bench shooters live in another world. I have found deer don't care what they're shot with, preferring not to be shot at all.

"Cases--what do you think?"

Me thinks that unless you are a OCD bench rest shooter it really makes no difference to mere mortals.
Some cases seem to hold up better are more consistent in construction etc etc. Any of the name brands will work fine.

What caliber, what projectile, what powder, what primer?? How is the rifle bolted firmly to the bench et etc.



Unless you can control all the other more important variables testing a few different brands of brass is going to "prove" nothing.
People have anecdotal reports of what is "best" for them. Lapua, Norma, Hornady whatever.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I'm not very particular about brand, but I have had batches of cases that did not shoot well in a specific rifle from time to time. Swapping cases does help, sometimes.

In HANDLOADER magazine, Dec. 2008, there is an excellent article about developing the most accurate .308 loads. The only constant was the powder, Varget, a popular .308 powder. Other components differ considerably and include all the 165 - 168 grain bullets available at that time. Same for primers and brass. Brass was fired to the point of failure and it's interesting to see how they ranked.

The article may be available on line. Very well done piece that the author put a lot of work into; lots of useful information. I've been reading gun articles since 1962 and this would easily be in the top three.

I think the OPs experiment would be fun, but I'm a curious kinda guy that likes fiddlin' with stuff and love reloading. I would process each different case to the utmost; trimming, deburring flash holes, reaming/uniforming primer pockets and weighing. Collet neck size and weigh every bullet and powder charge using the same lot of powder and bullets. A lot of work and in my opinion, not of much worth in an average or slightly better than average shooter's use...

Here's the article in Handloader that rockquarry mentioned.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...257partial.pdf

There is a difference in brass between manufacturers and lots and even variances within lots from the same manufacturer. The effect on your reloads is beyond the capacity of the average shooters ability to measure it. It even goes beyond the ability of most bench rest shooters to measure. That is why there is so much variance in the dogma that is put out by the bench rest community when it comes to this topic. It's sort of like not coming to any consensuses in the old argument about weighing every charge. Of course the fun of reloading is experimenting and case consistency is something that all serious re loaders have fooled with at one time or another. Have fun with it but remember that case consistency exists within the context of many other variables when it comes to loading accurate ammo.

Haven't tried it in rifles (yet) but PMC is my preferred brass for loading .451 pistol ammo. The brass walls are noticably thicker.

I think enough of their brass that when I was collecting 5.56 & 7.62x39 ammo it's either LC or PMC ammo.

I know a guy that by profession owned an accounting facility with 50 employees. He studied the difference in primers on accuracy out of a .223/5.56 "rail gun" that had an electric trigger. This stuff only matters if you are interested in "Bench Rifle" accuracy and are planning on shooting at ranges over 600 yds, otherwise use what works for you and like the deer hunter adage (Minute of deer) works for me. I shoot competitive muzzle loaders most of the time and everything matters, keeping your ball weight to within +/- 3 1/10th of a grain, patch thickness and lube or Teflon coating, percussion cap manufacture and some guys are even fussy about production code on their powder and the grain 2F,3F or whether nor not to use Swiss, Goex, or Goex Supreme or Goex Olde Eynesford.
I don't think cartridge manufacture matters unless it does, for example Winchester makes the thinnest case and the only way I can get 70 grs. of black powder in a 45/70 case with a .060 card over powder wad is with a Winchester case. In that case only a Winchester case will work to provide what I'm after, could I get something else to work, yeah maybe using Swiss I could use another case because Swiss is finer but at $5 a can differential in price I will use Goex Oldy Eynesford and a Winchester case to get results that satisfy me. If I was really going to try to compete at the top of the game I would have to resort to using Swiss just because it is that much better, all I'm after is something reasonably accurate, just enough to keep the anal guys honest. The really anal guys are going to kick your butt because anything that deviates from what they consider acceptable drives them up the wall, which I find amusing. I like to scare them by staying just behind them enough to make them worry if I show up and hope it rains or the wind blows a little because that's when I have a chance.
I have a muzzle loading buddy that talks about the fact that he really enjoys helping everybody and really isn't into the competition but watch him when his score is close to being 2nd place or "First Place Looser" and watch him get his score card out and ask for the range officer to help him score his target.
I'm constantly amazed at guys that show up every year to "sight in" their deer rifle during our non member sight days we hold every year. Some of these guys and gals only shoot a rifle during their hunting season and are satisfied with being able to get three rounds in a 6" bull which is truly acceptable. Last year I had a little gal in her early 60's come to me, I set her up on the bench with her .243, she promptly put three rounds in a nice 2" group a little to the left at 100 yds, I had her fire another three and made a slight windage correction. She then put three right above the bull an inch high, beautiful group. She then asked me something nobody had ever asked before. She said "When I'm out deer hunting I never get to shoot off a bench, would you mind if I shot from a seated position on the ground?" I told her no problem, cleared the bench away, threw a piece of carpet on the concrete and helped her set up, bang, bang, bang, another nice group just above the bull. Best shooter of the year award went to her, I asked her how many deer had she shot, she said "well over twenty, with this rifle."
It all depends on what satisfies you, if mediocre AR guy style accuracy satisfies your inner man go for it.
I don't think I have the anal problem some of the guys have, to me its like golf, golf is one of the few sports that you can actually play against yourself, shooting is another. You can get your delivery down, work out the details in your ballistics, sort out the issues your firearm may have concerning everything from twist rate, barrel bedding or not, bedding screw tightness or not, trigger pull, firing pin spring strength (which believe it or not has a bearing) all of the mechanics and in the end your are fighting your self or working to better your technique.
Then there are people that are "Tinkerers", a tinkerer cannot leave well enough alone. I have a dear old friend that is an inveterate tinkerer, he will get his rifle shooting right the nuts on, same hole accuracy and he will fool around with something that he hasn't tried before and throw his accuracy out the window and then spend weeks or months getting it back when HE HAD IT. He's always the first to pipe up "Have you tried this or that." The main thing is what ever you do, try to have a good time and if you can drive the rest of them crazy.

If your groups are too big you need to get closer to your target.

You really need to shoot at long ranges to be able to tell the difference. The 223 is impressive with pretty much anything @ 100yds.

Several years ago I I decided to pick up a set of swaging dies to make 22cal bullets out of 22lr cases. The idea was to use free 22lr cases and free range berm lead to make bullets with. Figured if I was going to make free bullets I might as well see just how cheap I could go and used free range brass.
For a rifle to test the reloads in I bought a heavy bbl'd savage axis with the acru-trigger. They we selling them at the time for $299 + tax with a $50 mail in rebate. They had a cheap scope/ring setup with them that I sold for another $50. At the end of the day the test rifle cost me $218.

I wanted to see if I could get moa/5-shot groups @ 100yds with a cheap rifle using free range brass/free home swaged bullets.

So I made my free bullet.

I sorted the free range brass into 2 piles, commercial and nato. I uniformed the primer pockets, fl sized them and trimmed them to length. I chose bl-c2 for the powder, 25.5gr to 26.5gr has always given me moa accuracy using 55gr to 62gr bullets in every firearm chambered in 223rem I've owned in the past. I seated the home swaged bullets so that the base of the bullets was just starting into the shoulders of the cases.

I punched the bbl out with a patch, wiped the bolt down and cleaned the chamber with a cloth removing the oil. Put a 24x scope on it that I used to use for silhouettes and hit the range with my reloads. Never did do anything with the adjustable trigger, was actually good right out of the box. I adjusted the torques on the action screws as I dialed the scope in. After playing around for +/- 60 rounds?, I punched the bbl out and shot 5 sighters. Then I started testing loads using a ladder test looking for moa accuracy. Well ,it didn't take long. That 25.5gr load has 3 in the same hole and 2 out and measured 3/4"


I thought it would take longer than 1 range trip to get moa accuracy out of the cheap rifle, free mixed range brass, free home swaged bullets. I loaded up 100 rounds of that 25.5gr load and went back to the range. There were a couple fliers in that 100 round test. Didn't know if it was my bullets or the brass. I do know that most people swaging their own bullets are making 55gr/58gr bullets out of 22lr cases & that I was pushing the envelope stretching the 22lr cases longer to make the heavier bullets. It really showed up with a 1 in 7 twist bbl with some of the bullets vaporizing mid target. I opened up the jacket forming die .001", the end result is a shorter thicker jacket that makes a 58gr hp bullet.

The 223rem is a fantastic cartridge that's extremely forgiving. I'm sure that your setup and your shooting skills would pick up on the differences in the cases at the 600yd line. 100yds is just too close IMHO

If cases are weight-matched, all trimmed to the same length, and the neck walls turned to the same thickness, having the same case headstamp does not much matter. I found that out long ago when I was a benchrest shooter. I neck sized only and always used the same batch of prepped cases. Actually, the single most important consideration in grouping performance is determining the optimum bullet seating depth (or cartridge OAL) with the same bullet.

Having said that, I discovered that the most uniform grouping performance in my Savage 112-V (.223) comes from using Israeli IMI military cases (TZZ headstamp). I have several hundred of those I use in no other rifle. IMR 4198 is my favored propellant for that rifle.

IMR 4198 was always my preferred powder in my Rem 788 .223 also. However, in my 6mm Mongoose (a P.O.Ackleyed .223 necked up to 6mm, if you wish), it produces large ESs and SDs and won't cycle the AR action. But for the 788, it's tough to beat.

More testing will have to wait until the range reopens. Closed due to Hurricane Dorian.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.