So I’m getting into reloading .223 and have about 1000 pieces of brass sized. I’ve divided the brass into three bins, Need Trimming, Too Short, and No Trim. The manuals all say trim to 1.75 with max length 1.76.

I’m using a Hornady digital calipers there I use to measure completed pistol brass. But if I move the brass a hair either right or left, the measurement changes. So 1.748 can become 1.744.

So I’m going to use the Frankford Arsenal Case Prep Center to prepare my brass. I’d like to set the trim length to 1.748 or so. But the changing numbers are making that difficult. I plan to use a case that is exactly 1.748 to set the trimmer and go from there. So the ones that are too long won’t be a problem, but what of the ones that are measuring less than that? Do I toss them?

I also got the military crimp remover to add to the station.

Am I worrying too much? Is .003 of an inch an issue? I don’t want to have any problems.

Thank for all the advice in advance!

You're way, way, way overthinking it.

(1) Batch it out into 50/100-round "lots".

(2) When pretty much every cartridge is well over trim-to size, trim, chamfer, and deburr.

(3) When you get X number of case failures--whatever you feel comfortable with--toss the entire lot. Case failure could mean an actual crack or failure, or something like "primer pocket is too loose for my taste".

That's also not how you set a trimmer. Take a case, trim it, and measure it--work from the result. You don't take a case that's the desired length, put it in, and try to tighten up the trimmer.

But yeah, I haven't even bothered trimming some of my brass lots yet, and I'm shooting teensy groups just fine.

But what about the pile that is less than 1.748? Obviously don’t trim but should I still load them? Is there a minimum case length? Don’t see anything listed.

And I wasn’t clear on setting the trimmer. I plan to use a case that’s already the length to get me in the ballpark and then trim and measure. A few videos on YouTube I saw say to use that as a starting part. Put the case in so it just barely touches the cutter and go from there.

No amount of jiggling can make a measurement shorter than what it is, only longer.

If your resizing die is properly adjusted to for correct headspace, any trimming will affect only neck length, and a few thousands of neck length will have no effect on round performance--unless you're obsessed with infinitesimal differences in numbers.

The advice I've received here and elsewhere is to use 1.745" as a minimum length. I'm still getting set up for reloading .223/5.56 myself. My plan is to decap and size all my once-fired brass, ream the crimped pockets, and then trim to 1.745". That should ensure that the brass never gets to 1.76" max lengths before it has been reloaded a half a dozen times or so and is ready to be scrapped. Basically the idea is that it should be worn out before it ever needs trimming a second time.

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Using 223 brass below the trimming depth is not much of a concern. Would certainly not advise waiting till pretty much all your brass is way over the max trim depth. If your brass mouth gets jammed in, your pressures can really increase. A lot depends on your brass and specific firearm, and .003 difference is not that big a deal.

As soon as i detect any brass from a batch over max, the whole lot gets trimmed. Prefer this over checking a bunch of brass.

Than there is the question of where your brass came from, is it all the same kind/batch and what you are going to use it in. Am pitching my 223 used in auto loaders after 4 full power loads. The brass can last much longer in bolt actions.

Thanks for the replies. I won’t be shooting high volumes so I can’t imagine loading a piece of brass more than 3 times max. I will never let it get anywhere near max length of 1.760.

What I am trying to say is if the brass is say 1.745 and it doesn’t contact the cutter because I have that set to 1.747 or so, the brass is still safe to load? So if it’s 1.743 and it doesn’t contact the cutter I know it’s not too long and just move along? I still plan to measure every piece after it’s trimmed. And yes, I know to chamfer and deburr.

As for the length changing, I found that if it is not exactly centered on the jaws of the caliper the reading can slightly change. Also how firmly I am sliding the jaws together on the piece of brass.

I am very careful with reloading. Truth is, if the only real concern is brass that is over 1.760 and brass that is under 1.750 by .008 so it measure 1.742 is still safe to load than I am happy with that. Once I have all my brass ready to go I’ll load up a few and test them out.

I’ve read 1.745 is a good minimum, so should I toss anything under that?

Forget the calipers. I use one of these to determine if the case needs to be trimmed after you decap and size.

Case Gage

There's a step on the gauge (1.76) that will tell you if you need to trim the case. I usually trim it while the case is in my hand if it needs it. If not it goes into the container of in-spec cases. If it does get trimmed it goes into the same container. All of it will be 1.76 untrimmed or 1.75 if trimmed.

The gauge will also tell you if it's under 1.75. I just throw those away because they're out of spec.

One other benefit of this gauge is it will tell you if your die is set correctly.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I have had a number of different case trimmers. (Hornady, RCBS, Redding, & Forrester) Except for the type of trimmers like Lee sells, I ALWAYS start with a MINIMUM length case and set the finish length to that. I have the case length permanently written on that case. If you want to trim to a longer or shorter case length, That is fine, within reason. (I have a match chamber Bench Rest gun with a chamber that is .002 shorter than the listed minimum, so I trim .005 below Minimum!) Once you have established that case, that is your "Slave" set it aside, so you can use it next time. I put mine in the die box, one of my friends puts his in storage with the trimmer. Whatever you think would work best for you.

There is one friend that has a L.E.Wilson case trimmer set for each length and Loctite's them permanently. They are set at 1.495"(39mm), 1.995"(51mm), 2.245"(57mm), and 2.495"(63mm). He doesn't load anything that isn't one of those lengths! In his opinion 223 for AR's isn't worth trimming! (it is 45mm).

Ivan

Jeez. I’m beginning to wonder if I made a mistake getting into reloading rifle. Pistol is so much easier. I already bought a Lyman case gauge. It says if the case fits in its good to go. I just want to produce safe plinking loads for my AR. I know not to go over 1.760. I’m happy to toss anything less than 1.745. I just want to be safe. My reloading technique is pretty basic but safe. Worrying if I am under length by .004” is not something I feel like dealing with.

Don't get discouraged man. You've had a dozen people tell you 1.745" to 1.760" is OK and one contrary opinion that anything less than 1.75" should be tossed because it's "out of spec".

I'm not sure exactly whose "spec" that would be since I've never seen a published minimum spec of 1.75" - have you?

Anyway, don't let one outlier opinion get you flustered. Take it with a grain of salt. You're not going to be doing anything unsafe by using brass that is 1.745".

Think about it: cases get longer (not shorter) when they are fired and re-sized, so if it is shorter than 1.745" then it was almost certainly even shorter than that when it was fired the first time - and it didn't blow up a gun, right?

While reloading needs to be done largely "by the book" (a.k.a. following published data & specs) it also requires application of common sense.

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If it's under 1.75, say 1.745 it isn't a problem. If you're using a case gauge it's going to be difficult to know exactly how much under 1.75 it is so I just toss those. I reload a lot of .223 and I have thousands of range cases so I'm not losing any sleep over a few hundred cases. If you want to measure everyone with a caliper you should probably do that but it's too time consuming for me. Sorry, not trying to discourage anyone. I thought rifle was going to be harder than pistol but it isn't. You just need to go slow and feel good about your methods. All good.

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I've seen some of those 1.74 cases from the range bucket but that doesn't mean you have to use them. I round up to the nearest 0.00". It's either 1.75 or somebody's mistake. I'll just leave it at that.

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That's just somebody talkin.

After resizing and separating makes of range pick ups, was left with a batch of fed brass that was shorter than the rest. They all got trimmed to 1.740, and functioned just fine with bullets seated to their normal length. If you are wedded to seating your bullets to the cannelure, your accuracy may suffer and may need to make very small adj to powder charge.

Shorter case length is not near the problem as longer than spec can be.

Then does that mean that the 1.75" minimum is your spec? Did you read it somewhere or learn it somewhere or just select that as your minimum?

No insult intended, just curious, because you were the only one confusing the new guy by throwing out a "spec" that was at odds with what everyone else said. So I was just wondering exactly where it came from.

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Actually, i wouldn't worry about tossing the shorter cases. A little research as to what is the SAAMI spec on case length will show that the official SAAMI spec is 1.760 - 0.030. So you could go as short as 1.730 and still be in spec. See page 68 in below.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf

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Peace was my Profession

Seems like a lot of angst over a miniscule amount......I don't overthink it and harvest thousands of praire dogs every year with range pickup brass that I trim and move on, with no complaint about the casing being too short......they all gauge good on my Dillon Case gauge...whatever that mics out to be.

Randy

Well ya' can't argue with SAAMI, so I guess that is a pretty definitive answer.

For what it's worth, in a field like reloading where even a couple of thousandths of an inch can make a difference, I wouldn't exactly call 15-30 thousandths minuscule.

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They fired fine the first time, didn't they? Yeah, just shoot 'em. There is a practical "minimum case length", but you're not going to see it unless you go crazy with the trimmer. And it's not uncommon to see newly-manufactured brass from reputable makers be under-length. I've happily used such brass in bolt guns to shoot down to the .25-.35MOA range.

RE: trim length setting, I always start with a case I'm going to trim--naturally, it's over-length--and just start trimming and measuring. I'm using an LE Wilson bench trimmer.

Not maximum length--trim-to. And largely, I'm trimming at that point just to even them all up.

It can be, but that's half the fun! It's also worth noting that the amount of effort you expend should be dictated by your expectations. Trickling each charge makes sense when you're chasing .5 or .25MOA groups, but I sure wouldn't recommend it if you just want to take out your AR or Mini-14 for some 50-yard plinking.

But that's why I like rifle, I think. With pistol, I care somewhat about ammo cost and how much time it takes. But I shoot such small volumes of rifle that I can pull out all the stops, focus on making great ammunition, and see the results.

Ivan has all the cool stuff.

I just checked my Wilson gauge. It looks like the step is 0.01 so it would gauge 1.76 and 1.75. The 1.75 appears to be a trim length reference, not a minimum length. It looks like I was in error here so I learned something.

The old Sammi children's drawings had 1.74 as the minimum and now it's 1.73.

About 95% of the range brass that I pick up is once fired and it needs to be trimmed. I only load LC brass anyway and I always have to trim that stuff so never really paid much attention to a min length, just used the gauge. I don't like using calipers because they're slow. I use Wilson gauges on my pistol ammo also. I find they save a lot of time, but they are expensive.

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That's just somebody talkin.

With any of my new brass........
I check the neck for dents and the mouth to be round and not rough.
Some might need an expander to get rid of any flat spots but
I do not remove any metal unless it is a major bad spot on the lip.
You might need to smooth a few inside the neck or on the outside
if a rough spot is present, other wise it should be good to go
for loading as it came to you.

After the brass is "Fire formed" to your weapon...........
you can do your first "Light" trimming to any long cases, on the first loading.

I just try to not remove material unless it is causing a problem.
Have fun.

In my opinion, once you work through some of these items you're dealing with (thinking through), I predict you'll enjoy loading for your AR and you won't have regretted it.

I load mixed (scrounged) brass for my AR and it provides plinking ammo I'm more than happy with. On the "What is done with cases below the trim-to length?" topic I'd always heard people say "Load 'em and shoot 'em." I just make sure they're not over max length - and I trim the ones that are.

The overall downside I see to loading .223 for an AR is I believe there is a fundamental mismatch between the effort needed to load ammo and the ease of which an AR enables you to unload the loaded ammo. Yes - there clearly is more prep compared to pistol. And of all the things I do at the bench the step from "Deprimed and Cleaned" to "Ready to Prime" is the part of loading I hate the most. (That step involves checking length, trimming if needed, removing primer pocket if any, and checking for case head separation.) But even though I like it the least, I still do it because I like having my own ammo.

I believe you'll settle into a nice rhythym after you've internalized these various topics. That's what has happened to me.

OR

Yeah there's a saying in engineering circles.
You can have it better, faster, cheaper. Pick two.

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Short cases are no problem. Milspec minimum case length for the 5.56mm is 1.75", but a little shorter (say 1.74") will present no problem. It is generally better for the sake of consistency to trim all cases to the same length, so pick the shortest case in your batch and set the case trimmer up for it. Then trim every one to that same length. I always FL resize prior to trimming, not after. Some people also weight-match cases (i.e sort them into +/- 0.5 grain weight ranges), but unless you are a bench rest shooter trying for one-hole groups, that is not necessary. I do not bother with weight-matching either bullets or cases and have no problem getting 1 MOA or better 10-shot groups. But it is important to find the correct COAL that shoots best in your rifle for a given bullet.

I avoid digital calipers because they always give me a different reading. I dont get consistent repeatable readings. I use the stainless steel dial calipers (they are all basically the same) as they give me a consistent reading. This will at least let you know what the "real" reading is and you can go on from there.

I use a case gauge, if its flush it's good, sticks out, needs trim... simple.

To answer your first question, it's OK to use the brass that is shorter than your case trim to length.

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Regards,

Tom

Make darn sure you lube those cases before putting them in the resize die!

I'm working on a 1000 rounds right now and I've tried numerous methods to trim and prep the cases and this is what I've settled on.
I use a "Little Crow" trimmer in my drill press that indexes off the shoulder and is pre set to 1.750, if the case doesn't exceed that length it doesn't trim.
Then I move to a Lyman case prep to chamfer, deburr and remove primer crimp if necessary.

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SWHF #595

Trimming, chamfering, etc. bottleneck cases has got to be the most onerous part of reloading rifle cases.
When I was shooting high-power, a friend introduced me to an RCBS die called an "X" Die. It's a full length sizing die that limits how much a case can "grow" when you FL size it.
You take a fired case, trim to minimum length (1.75" for the .223 it seems most are interested in here) and then lube and size it in the "X" Die. Load as usual.
Going forward, continue using the "X" Die to full length size those cases that were prepped as outlined above. In my experience, I trim a case ONCE before encountering loose primer pockets, cracked necks or shoulders, or any other issues that indicate an unsafe case.
I hate trimming brass and the "X" Die has greatly reduced the time I spend trimming brass. The dies are available in multiple calibers and I use them for every cartridge I load for that requires FL Sizing (If the die is available).
It's saved me a lot of time and effort over the past 20+ years. Check them out.

WYT-P
Skyhunter

What is your method for checking for head separation? Do you just eyeball them for the "ring" around the case head by the primer or do you use a tool like the rather expensive RCBS case master gauging tool which says it "can detect impending case head separation before obvious lines appear on the outside of the case". When I resize, I sometimes get a ring around the case head. How can I tell this from impending case head separation? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks. Ray

Wow. I was a high power service rifle shooter for many years and I never heard of the RCBS "X" die. I will have to look into it. Yes, prepping the brass before loading takes a lot of work!. I resize the brass, then I run all of the brass through my Sinclair Ultimate Trimmer which uses a micrometer with the LE Wilson trimmer. That way I have all the brass at the same length. Then I have to chamfer and debur the case mouth then clean out the primer pockets and then prime the cases. Then reload! Wow. What a lot of work. Then, my Colt shoots up all this ammo quite rapidly! Then back to work. Oh Well...

After the first firing, I normally neck size only as the case has been "Fire Formed" to the fit the chamber precisely. Head separation is generally the consequence of excessive headspace, and a neck-sized case eliminates any excessive headspace. Of course, you must always use such brass in only that single gun. I once had a rifle that had very excessive headspace, and often the "ring" showing incipient head separation appeared after the first or second reload. I always had to remember to neck size all cases used in that rifle before doing the first reload. But I never had a case head separation even after multiple reloads.

Thank You. Unfortunately, I dont neck size.

Neck sizing doesn't work in a semi auto rifle. You need to full length resize, and set the die up to bump the shoulder back .002" or so. Use a comparator and calipers to measure.

And if you don't want to STRETCH the case neck.........Lube the inside of the neck too before sizing.

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I check for potential case head separation using the pick-inside-the-case method. You can straighten out a paperclip and bend the last 1/8" or so of the end to a 90 degree angle. Then you can use this tool to feel/scrape on the inside of the case down by the head. If separation is starting you'll feel a little ledge. At a local surplus store they were selling little packages of essentially dental picks. One of them in that set meets the case check task well. So that's what I use.

My loading log says I've loaded 3,300 rounds of .223. (These are AR rounds, not a bolt gun.) I haven't found one instances of potential case head separation. I thought for sure I did once. I was so intrigued I took a dremel to the case to look at the inside. Even though it seemed like I felt the gap of impending separation, nothing could be seen to verify it.

OR

I’ve loaded thousands of 223. All mine is loaded for #3 Ruger and bolt actions. The first thing I do is try to keep it in lots. It’s range brass in a way. The AR crowd gives it to me, It’s 1x factory ammo. If it stays in tolerance uniformity is more important to me. The rifles I have in 223 are not capable of benefiting from the precision of a match rifle, most aren’t.
Two things with 223/5.56, military brass is heavier and has less volume.
Original GI 55gr x 3250fs can’t be loaded in military case with some of the
IMR powders. Second the beginners loading 223 are sticking cases left and right. Using range brass especially. It wouldn’t hurt to run a brush in the necks. Half the dies they show up with they have already ruined the stem and sizer buttons trying to get case out.