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12-30-2019, 02:05 PM
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Smokey rounds.....44s and Bullseye
Hello all .
I do hardly post in this section, but I'm second guessing myself.
I'm loading these 44 magnums with what I thought were 5g. Of Bullseye. I'm at about a 1.580" OAL. 240gr rainier plated. Book marks a 1.605" should be fine. So that means I'm putting a little more pressure in there.
Primers used yesterday were CCI 300's.
My problems haven't crept up until I started shooting alot faster. No, I'm no Miculek, but I can definitely stand my ground. And the rounds I'm using are smokey. I end up probably smelling and breathing alot of the powder.
So I need for the rounds to have a cleaner burn.
This morning, just to confirm the powder drops. I put Bullseye in my disc hopper(lee). On a .53 disk. What the book states SHOULD be a 5.0 gr exact drop. And I got a 4.7,4.7, 4.7 drop! On each! So, the last batch wasn't exactly a 5.0g. They were 4.7g drops.
Then I put the next disk size up, a .57cc disk and on the first shot got a 5.0! Consecutive drops were 5.0, 5.2, 5.1, 5.0.
So, should I first try the. 57cc disk getting closer to the 5gr I need to run the bullseye powder
Or.
Is there a "hotter" primer i can use instead of the CCI 300 like the 350?
Keep in mind, i use a Lee progressive and do not want to change my setup. And the machine only "likes" Winchester and CCI primers. Unless I hand prime. Which I usually dont.
So, what say ye,' o' great internet wisdom. Come at me with thine knowledge!
Any help would be appreciated. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome!
Just trying to have a cleaner burn.
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12-30-2019, 02:24 PM
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Sounds like you have a very light load to me, any powder is gonna burn poor at low charge. Even the 5 gr disc is to low to me for a plated bullet.
Where did you get your load data?
Alliant has a Max load of 6gr for a 240 LEAD bullet.
The discs on the Lee are only a "guesstimate" you need to use a scale and get the EXACT weight of the charge
I myself would not use BE in a 44 Mag but some folks do. It is a fast powder.
Any LPP will work it's not the primer. BE is not the "cleanest" of powders to begin with.
Just my 2 cents
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Last edited by Rule3; 12-30-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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12-30-2019, 02:29 PM
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The spreadsheets provided by Lee are just guidelines to get you in the ballpark. Powder density will vary batch by batch.
When I couldn't get exactly 5gr of Bullseye I got the adjustable charge bar. It's not great for very small charges (that can be fixed) and doesn't play well with very fine powders but does well enough for my purposes.
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12-30-2019, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
Sounds like you have a very light load to me, any powder is gonna burn poor at low charge. Even the 5 gr disc is to low to me for a plated bullet.
Where did you get your load data?
Alliant has a Max load of 6gr for a 240 LEAD bullet.
The discs on the Lee are only a "guesstimate" you need to use a scale and get the EXACT weight of the charge
I myself would not use BE in a 44 Mag but some folks do. It is a fast powder.
Just my 2 cents
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Yes. Its I lite load. I got my data from my Lee's book. Here's the excerpt.
Maybe I should bump it up a bit then? Primer should be fine.
I use the CCI 300's for the 2400 loads and they have no problem firing them.
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12-30-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer
The spreadsheets provided by Lee are just guidelines to get you in the ballpark. Powder density will vary batch by batch.
When I couldn't get exactly 5gr of Bullseye I got the adjustable charge bar. It's not great for very small charges (that can be fixed) and doesn't play well with very fine powders but does well enough for my purposes.
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I hadn't weighed Bullseye in a while. And that disk had worked well on a 240gr RN 45 acp.
Since they're disks. I usually get the same results every time. And if I change disks between caliber changes. On a proven load, I dont weigh them. They are the same.
I think I got used to that disk size on that gr.bullet.
The next disk size was +/- .2g of what I needed. So, I think I'll bump it up the next disk size.
Last edited by Lou_the_welder; 12-30-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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12-30-2019, 02:43 PM
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While a lot of people use Bullseye, A5, w231, tite, for light target loads,
I like a powder that is a little larger and fills the case up a little more, like Red Dot or Green Dot that can work for a nice light target load in most cases.
Yes you will need a little more powder than the skimpy smaller fast burning grained powders but I like to be able to see the powder in the case, when I check my loading block before seating the bullets.
A smoked case will usually mean that there is not enough pressure for the case to expand and seat in the chamber.
I will try to add a little more powder to stop this from happening, since I like clean cases for loading if possible.
Not that smoked cases are bad............. just that being a Navy man, it just is not going to work out, for me.
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12-30-2019, 02:47 PM
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Do you have a scale?? If not get one. Heck a $25 electronic is better than nothing!
My Lee discs and batch of BE will weigh different than yours or anyone else's.
That data is a for a lead bullet, your plated has more friction, so yes bump it up a bit but you have to weigh it!
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Last edited by Rule3; 12-30-2019 at 02:49 PM.
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12-30-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed
While a lot of people use Bullseye, A5, w231, tite, for light target loads,
I like a powder that is a little larger and fills the case up a little more, like Red Dot or Green Dot that can work for a nice light target load in most cases.
Yes you will need a little more powder than the skimpy smaller fast burning grained powders but I like to be able to see the powder in the case, when I check my loading block before seating the bullets.
A smoked case will usually mean that there is not enough pressure for the case to expand and seat in the chamber.
I will try to add a little more powder to stop this from happening, since I like clean cases for loading if possible.
Not that smoked cases are bad............. just that being a Navy man, it just is not going to work out, for me.
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I have used Bullseye, W231 and titegroup on light loads.
I prefer titegroup and 2400 and have used 800X and H110 on heavy loads.
I try and stay between 200-240gr. For cost. I cant shoot lead. Unless outdoors.
Hardly get to shoot outdoors. I'm taking care of family right now. So, a clean indoor range load is what I need right now.
And I have used brown cases to load. But, if I have time, clean them and leave them shiny.
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12-30-2019, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
Do you have a scale?? If not get one. Heck a $25 electronic is better than nothing!
My Lee discs and batch of BE will weigh different than yours or anyone else's.
That data is a for a lead bullet, your plated has more friction, so yes bump it up a bit but you have to weigh it!
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Yes I do. I have a frankford arsenal (?) Digital scale and a mechanical scale.
This morning I was using the digital one. Put the plate and hit the tare button, then did the drops right on it.
I've used plated loadings on lead figures. On some , they're good.
But then I was seeing those Elmer Keith loads. And he says for light plinking on bullseye (for lead) he calls for 5g on a magnum or special case.
I've given up special cases on a magnum cylinder. Too many problems and I've noticed a bump in accuracy as well. But, I know that's subjective.
Last edited by Lou_the_welder; 12-30-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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12-30-2019, 03:31 PM
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Bullseye is a bit on the smoky side. Also, are you using lubricated lead bullets? They contribute to the smoke factor as well.
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12-30-2019, 03:33 PM
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Lou, I am not loading 44s yet, but your charge sounds rather light to me. I have been using a Speer recommended charge of 5.8gr WW231/5.4gr Bullseye with a 200gr FMJ SWC in 45ACP, and not too happy with 50 yard performance. (I realize comparing apples to oranges!) Usually, when I get smokey rounds with my 38 Special WC loads, it is because I have a light powder charge and insufficient crimp.
Good luck!
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12-30-2019, 03:52 PM
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Anyone have a light load favourite?
I currently have hp38,titegroup,W231,power pistol bullseye for light.
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12-30-2019, 04:01 PM
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I've used 5 grs. Bullseye with a 250 grain Lyman #429421 in a .44 Special case, not magnum. Burns clean and is accurate, but I think only around 800 fps muzzle velocity. I don't recall whether or not I've tried a CCI-350 primer, but a CCI-300 does fine. If using a magnum case, the magnum primer and/or a slight increase in powder charge weight should do okay.
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12-30-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry
I've used 5 grs. Bullseye with a 250 grain Lyman #429421 in a .44 Special case, not magnum. Burns clean and is accurate, but I think only around 800 fps muzzle velocity. I don't recall whether or not I've tried a CCI-350 primer, but a CCI-300 does fine. If using a magnum case, the magnum primer and/or a slight increase in powder charge weight should do okay.
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I used the .53 disk(4.7g)on a 240gr with special cases and remember them less smokey.
That makes sense. Less case space, maybe a cleaner burn?
I had to stop using special cases when some PC bullets made a huge mess of the force cone and cylinder.
I'm gonna try and keep the magnum cases and get closer to the actual load. (5.0-5.2g vs. The 4.7g it seemed I was using)
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12-30-2019, 04:46 PM
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Another side question:
Do CCI #300 burn less than a WLP Winchester primer?
I know I have a book that states which have . But I dont remember the book.
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12-30-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder
I used the .53 disk(4.7g)on a 240gr with special cases and remember them less smokey.
That makes sense. Less case space, maybe a cleaner burn?
I had to stop using special cases when some PC bullets made a huge mess of the force cone and cylinder.
I'm gonna try and keep the magnum cases and get closer to the actual load. (5.0-5.2g vs. The 4.7g it seemed I was using)
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You may be on the right track - too much case capacity for the charge. I've had no experience with powder coated bullets. The conventionally lubed bullets work very well. Good luck-
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12-30-2019, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder
Another side question:
Do CCI #300 burn less than a WLP Winchester primer?
I know I have a book that states which have . But I dont remember the book.
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I don't know, but I've never been adverse to experimenting with other primers. Often there is no difference, but sometimes there is enough difference to make the effort worthwhile.
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12-30-2019, 05:47 PM
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Once again, it's not the primer, but try different ones if you want.
Heck try HP38/W231 but it also doesn't burn well at mouse fart loads. At least it is a little slower and if you vary due to the discs you are not gonna blow up. You have leeway to play with
Look at the Hodgdon data, notice the difference in the start load between a JHP and a lead 240 gr bullet!!
Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading
Lee data is just data taken from some other source long ago. Lee did not test anything.
EDit:
Also how are you crimping the bullets? From what I recall the bullet you are using has no cannelure. So you need to be sure you have good neck tension.
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Last edited by Rule3; 12-30-2019 at 05:51 PM.
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12-30-2019, 06:52 PM
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I love Bullseye powder. But, "smokiness" is always a characteristic in any load/cartridge for which it is used.
I find it to be part of its charm, but understand others may find it annoying.
If you're shooting rapid fire, especially on an indoor range, you're gonna get "Bullseye" clouds forming.
In light loads, most of the other powders listed (HP38 231, 700x, etc) will also have some degree of "smoke".
For really clean burning and top notch accuracy, I've found Vihtavuori N310 to be excellent. It is a high energy, very fast burning powder with an almost laboratory grade level of cleanliness. If you want a clean burning lead bullet centerfire load that burns like target grade 22 LR, this is the powder.
It is a top choice for international centerfire competition in the 32 S&W long (wadcutter load) and 38 Special. It has also found favor with U.S. military marksmanship teams for 45 ACP and 9mm.
Jim
I just checked the Vihtavuori website.
N300 Powders - Vihtavuori
Reloading data - Vihtavuori
Lots of great data. But, nothing for N310 in 44 mag. But, they do offer loads for N320 and N32C. The latter is marketed under the name Tinstar. I haven't used either, but if they are as clean as N310, should be great.
Personally, I would have no qualms about recommending 44 data with N310, but without being able to back it up with factory data, will refrain from commenting.
Best Wishes!
Last edited by 6string; 12-30-2019 at 07:04 PM.
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12-30-2019, 07:20 PM
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I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I gave up on Bullseye powder many years ago. It was the go to powder when I first started loading 40 years ago, but I found it to be just to dirty and moved on to cleaner burning ball powders. At that time I moved to Accurate Arms powders and haven't looked back, they're clean meter well and work with almost ever pistol I own. Their #2 is almost as fast as Bullseye but I prefer #5 for its versatility it can be used in 9mm, 38 Spl, light .357, .40S&W .44 Spl and .45 ACP. When I move up to heaver loads I skip over #7 and use #9 for Heavy .357 and .44 Mag.
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12-30-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
Once again, it's not the primer, but try different ones if you want.
Heck try HP38/W231 but it also doesn't burn well at mouse fart loads. At least it is a little slower and if you vary due to the discs you are not gonna blow up. You have leeway to play with
Look at the Hodgdon data, notice the difference in the start load between a JHP and a lead 240 gr bullet!!
Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading
Lee data is just data taken from some other source long ago. Lee did not test anything.
EDit:
Also how are you crimping the bullets? From what I recall the bullet you are using has no cannelure. So you need to be sure you have good neck tension.
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Roll crimp.
You are right. These Rainier ones have no cannelure. So I go by listed OAL. In my case, I had been crimping them too short.
I had some bayou bullets PC in there before. I must've not adjusted correctly on height.
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12-30-2019, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6string
I love Bullseye powder. But, "smokiness" is always a characteristic in any load/cartridge for which it is used.
I find it to be part of its charm, but understand others may find it annoying.
If you're shooting rapid fire, especially on an indoor range, you're gonna get "Bullseye" clouds forming.
In light loads, most of the other powders listed (HP38 231, 700x, etc) will also have some degree of "smoke".
For really clean burning and top notch accuracy, I've found Vihtavuori N310 to be excellent. It is a high energy, very fast burning powder with an almost laboratory grade level of cleanliness. If you want a clean burning lead bullet centerfire load that burns like target grade 22 LR, this is the powder.
It is a top choice for international centerfire competition in the 32 S&W long (wadcutter load) and 38 Special. It has also found favor with U.S. military marksmanship teams for 45 ACP and 9mm.
Jim
I just checked the Vihtavuori website.
N300 Powders - Vihtavuori
Reloading data - Vihtavuori
Lots of great data. But, nothing for N310 in 44 mag. But, they do offer loads for N320 and N32C. The latter is marketed under the name Tinstar. I haven't used either, but if they are as clean as N310, should be great.
Personally, I would have no qualms about recommending 44 data with N310, but without being able to back it up with factory data, will refrain from commenting.
Best Wishes!
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Well, I do like the smell of bullseye. But, yes. The bullseye cloud.
I did manage to find loads for 8 quick shots of 38 short colts with magnum primers on my 627/327's.
But 6 quick shots of 44s. With the wrong amount of powder will have you in the clouds. ...
I dont have a source for the Vihtavouri line of powders. Locally. I would have to order them.
I do know in what direction to go. Just needed to clear my head. Got alot going on...
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12-30-2019, 08:05 PM
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I've used Bullseye for many years, actually decades, and I've never noticed it to be any dirtier or cleaner than other powders. If you're shooting a good, "balanced" load, you shouldn't have problems with smoke from a powder; from a cast bullet lubricant, yes, but that's entirely different.
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12-30-2019, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy52
I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I gave up on Bullseye powder many years ago. It was the go to powder when I first started loading 40 years ago, but I found it to be just to dirty and moved on to cleaner burning ball powders. At that time I moved to Accurate Arms powders and haven't looked back, they're clean meter well and work with almost ever pistol I own. Their #2 is almost as fast as Bullseye but I prefer #5 for its versatility it can be used in 9mm, 38 Spl, light .357, .40S&W .44 Spl and .45 ACP. When I move up to heaver loads I skip over #7 and use #9 for Heavy .357 and .44 Mag.
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I recently tried #9 on 44 mags. Very clean! And a straight push back!
I will have to try #5 then. I didn't really realize this may be cleaner alternative. Thank you.
I really have to find a cleaner burn.
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12-30-2019, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry
I've used Bullseye for many years, actually decades, and I've never noticed it to be any dirtier or cleaner than other powders. If you're shooting a good, "balanced" load, you shouldn't have problems with smoke from a powder; from a cast bullet lubricant, yes, but that's entirely different.
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I've used Bullseye for other loads and are fine.
I think my light plinking load was under charged now. I'm going to bring it up. And maybe pick up some AA #5.
I try and buy my powder locally, so I'm at the mercy of what my LGS ordered. .
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12-30-2019, 11:11 PM
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An accurate light load with Bullseye in my 4" 29-2 is 6.2 grs under a
250 gr cast Lyman 429421 SWC and a Remington 2 1/2 primer or CCI
300 primer. I prefer the Remington for consistency. Chronographs at
830 fps out of the 4" 29-2.
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12-31-2019, 03:03 AM
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I'd bump my loads up to 6.0gr of bullseye along with trying 6.0gr of titegroup and 6.0gr of hp-38.
Might want to check your neck tension/crimp, you can have the correct powder charge and get poor burn/results with too little tension on the bullet. Any powder burns better/more consistently when given time to build pressure/short start pressure. While keith lists a 5.0gr load you should keep in mind that the bullet he used has 1 heck of a roll crimp groove. hp versions of that keith swc with the huge crimp groove.
Personally I like 6.0gr to 6.5gr of clays for my lite/target/gallery loads in the 44mags. Those bullets pictured above. Put a scope on a beater 629 and was sighting it in doing test loads @ 25yds. Was aiming at the left target. Shot 3 moved the scope, shot 3 more moved the scop and then shot 6-shot test group. 6.0gr of clays
Another 6-shot group 6.0gr of clays/200gr wc shot the same day 25yds
6.5gr of clays 6-shot 25yd same day
6.5gr of clays 6-shot 25yds same day
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12-31-2019, 05:12 AM
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You'll know what 'smoky' is.....
....when you shoot lead, traditionally lubed bullets.
Buy a scale. And think about buying a variable powder dispenser like an RCBS Uniflow. Usually a little higher pressure means a better burn of the powder. And I do like Red Dot. The Accurate powders are pretty clean burning.
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12-31-2019, 05:39 AM
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I don't have any experience with Bullseye in a 44 Mag case to share with you but I'm going with case tension/crimp as to why your loads aren't doing better with such a fast powder, like a couple others have mentioned already.
No reason CCI-300s shouldn't suffice in this load either.
I used to use my .44 Lee Deluxe (4) Die set but started noticing I wasn't seeing much of the bullet's shape "impression" in the case when seating bullets that have a nominal diameter, .4290". (My Rainier 240gr bullets mic at .4292")
I removed the de-capping plug & found the sizer die's diameter was .449" using my pin gages.
So on a whim I bought a Hornady .44 die set & the was happy to find it's sizer die measures .447" ID which makes a favorable difference.
Now you can better see the seated bullet's outline in the brass. (Like in the picture below of the 460 Mag case.)
When I want max case tension I use an expander die with a short plug, not a long one like on a RCBS or LYMAN M-expander die (which are fine for softer bullets equipped with a crimp groove).
Flare the case mouth just enough to get the bullet's base in & let the bullet expand the case out the rest of the way to get the most bullet-case tension.
Since plated (Rainier) bullets are so slick, & don't have a cannelure/crimp groove, bullet-case tension is important because a taper crimp can only do so much.
If you were to shoot some 240gr copper JHPs with the same load I'd doubt you'd see that same problem?
That's all I got.
.
.
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Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 12-31-2019 at 05:48 AM.
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12-31-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37
I don't have any experience with Bullseye in a 44 Mag case to share with you but I'm going with case tension/crimp as to why your loads aren't doing better with such a fast powder, like a couple others have mentioned already.
No reason CCI-300s shouldn't suffice in this load either.
I used to use my .44 Lee Deluxe (4) Die set but started noticing I wasn't seeing much of the bullet's shape "impression" in the case when seating bullets that have a nominal diameter, .4290". (My Rainier 240gr bullets mic at .4292")
I removed the de-capping plug & found the sizer die's diameter was .449" using my pin gages.
So on a whim I bought a Hornady .44 die set & the was happy to find it's sizer die measures .447" ID which makes a favorable difference.
Now you can better see the seated bullet's outline in the brass. (Like in the picture below of the 460 Mag case.)
When I want max case tension I use an expander die with a short plug, not a long one like on a RCBS or LYMAN M-expander die (which are fine for softer bullets equipped with a crimp groove).
Flare the case mouth just enough to get the bullet's base in & let the bullet expand the case out the rest of the way to get the most bullet-case tension.
Since plated (Rainier) bullets are so slick, & don't have a cannelure/crimp groove, bullet-case tension is important because a taper crimp can only do so much.
If you were to shoot some 240gr copper JHPs with the same load I'd doubt you'd see that same problem?
That's all I got.
.
.
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For some odd reason reloaders have to have that "gooder neck tension"/wasp waist look or they feel they're not doing something good.
MFG's make countless 1000's of rounds every year and what you don't see is bullet bulge. But you will see a couple 1000th's taper crimp. But heck what do they know.
You can get away with it with the hard jacketed bullets. Move over to soft cast, swaged or soft plated bullets and all's you'll do is deform them along with making it easier to seat the bullets crooked.
At the end of the day all of these things are easy enough to check/test. Increase the crimp and test. Increase the powder and test. And lastly if you make your reloads look like they have wasp waists roll them on a flat surface (piece of glass) with the rim hanging over. It is extremely easy to find/see out of round reloads from bullets not being seated strait. Or from the brass stretching unevenly, bass work hardened more on 1 side/less forgiving/etc.
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12-31-2019, 10:11 AM
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Lou,
It is all not this complicated. Go back to your post #4 and the Lee Data. Notice that it is for a LEAD bullet. You are NOT using a lead bullet.
Notice also that the min charge listed is 5.3 gr. You state that you are using below that!. Notice anything wrong here???
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12-31-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
Lou,
It is all not this complicated. Go back to your post #4 and the Lee Data. Notice that it is for a LEAD bullet. You are NOT using a lead bullet.
Notice also that the min charge listed is 5.3 gr. You state that you are using below that!. Notice anything wrong here???
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Got it!
Leaving primer alone. Bumping up the charge.
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12-31-2019, 11:20 AM
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Thank you all !
And have a happy new year!!!
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01-03-2020, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest r
For some odd reason reloaders have to have that "gooder neck tension"/wasp waist look or they feel they're not doing something good.
MFG's make countless 1000's of rounds every year and what you don't see is bullet bulge. But you will see a couple 1000th's taper crimp. But heck what do they know.
You can get away with it with the hard jacketed bullets. Move over to soft cast, swaged or soft plated bullets and all's you'll do is deform them along with making it easier to seat the bullets crooked.
At the end of the day all of these things are easy enough to check/test. Increase the crimp and test. Increase the powder and test. And lastly if you make your reloads look like they have wasp waists roll them on a flat surface (piece of glass) with the rim hanging over. It is extremely easy to find/see out of round reloads from bullets not being seated strait. Or from the brass stretching unevenly, bass work hardened more on 1 side/less forgiving/etc.
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Of the major manufacturer's plated bullets that I've pulled, after seating, they did not show any meaningful change in diameter. As I stated, use a M-type expander for soft bullets, irregardless of type, that would so be affected. More than one option applies.
.
I find it curious when people are critical about a pistol round not being seated "straight". What are we talking about, the Leaning Tower of Pisa?
And it's not like we're talking about a lightweight hi-velocity bullet in a 1000yd. bolt action rifle's cartridge with a fixed/stationary chamber/barrel, no barrel-cylinder gap, no forcing cone, nothing for throats & a locking bolt forcefully holding the round in place.
We're talking about a revolver with (6) chambers & throats that aren't identical, a cylinder that has rotational play (& probably fore & aft play too) with inconsistent alignment, chambers that allow the cartridge to float around (forwards & backwards) freely, a cylinder-barrel gap, & a forcing cone to "persuade" the bullet to go down the center of the barrel.
And then we have short(er) cartridges that are happily shot in longer chambers (38s in 357s, 45ACP in 45Colt, 40s in 10Auto, 45Colt in 460Mag, etc) that have to traverse the chamber's diameter bouncing off it's walls until it finally gets to the chamber's throat for alignment.
And all, likely, in a short barrel being shot at a target just yards away. Right?
I'm all for doing a conscientious job but I don't sweat minute seating alignment differences in a revolver. Each to his own.
.
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01-03-2020, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder
Anyone have a light load favourite?
I currently have hp38,titegroup,W231,power pistol bullseye for light.
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Hey Lou, that Bullseye black cloud plagued me for years and I only shoot outdoors. It caused respiratory discomfort and sometimes infections. After a string of rapid fire, I would cough up black specs especially on calm humid days. I switched to Clays and it was like day & nite not to mention my 45 looked like it was in a chimney fire from BE. I suggest you try it!
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01-03-2020, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder
Anyone have a light load favourite?
I currently have hp38,titegroup,W231,power pistol bullseye for light.
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Yep. Trail Boss. Use the Lee book and my sweet spot is 1/2 way between middle and max.
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01-03-2020, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noshow
Hey Lou, that Bullseye black cloud plagued me for years and I only shoot outdoors. It caused respiratory discomfort and sometimes infections. After a string of rapid fire, I would cough up black specs especially on calm humid days. I switched to Clays and it was like day & nite not to mention my 45 looked like it was in a chimney fire from BE. I suggest you try it!
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Ahh. ..
That's part of what I wanted to confirm. I may have to step away from Bullseye altogether.
Maybe I'll go to my midrange loads and stay. Like power pistol. Something with more powder. And not a weak charge.
I've seen Clays and trail boss. I might have to change up my powders for the new year.
I dont remember having this problem with a full charge of titegroup? But I know it wreaks havoc on the force cone. . Wonder what the difference is with that powder.
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01-03-2020, 02:20 PM
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Here at the LGS. In pistol powder , they have slim pickings.
From what I can see, blue dot, green dot(this bottle says now cleaner! Hmmmm), wst ball powder.......
And just rifle powders. Oh they have 300-mp. ..
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01-07-2020, 12:25 AM
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Oh, By the way.....
To increase consistency with a powder measure, DO put a baffle in the bottom of the powder hopper. I made one myself out of an aluminum can. There are templates on the web.
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01-07-2020, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith
To increase consistency with a powder measure, DO put a baffle in the bottom of the powder hopper. I made one myself out of an aluminum can. There are templates on the web.
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I do use a disk measuring "hopper"(?) Dispenser?
I dont know what the name is called. It's been eons since I purchased my progressive.
But it dispenses powder through a disk measure.
In cc disks. From .30cc- 1.35cc give or take.
Its measurements are precise and the same. Depending on what powder I'm using.
I dont see any way of putting a funnel as the powder goes through a powder expander die. Directly into the cases.
My above mentioned problem may have been augmented from switching from the smaller 'special' cases, to the larger 'magnum ' cases.
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01-07-2020, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder
Another side question:
Do CCI #300 burn less than a WLP Winchester primer?
I know I have a book that states which have . But I dont remember the book.
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WLP and CCI350 haVe identical ignition characteristics, the difference being the cup hardness. I have tested them. I recommend CCI350 for all "to the wall" magnum loads using ball powders. WLP are what I use for plinker loads like what you are building.
Can't help with the smoke, 5gr is a very light load. Are you expecting zero smoke? Cause that ain't gonna happen.
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01-07-2020, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla
WLP and CCI350 haVe identical ignition characteristics, the difference being the cup hardness. I have tested them. I recommend CCI350 for all "to the wall" magnum loads using ball powders. WLP are what I use for plinker loads like what you are building.
Can't help with the smoke, 5gr is a very light load. Are you expecting zero smoke? Cause that ain't gonna happen.
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I haven't had time to press some. But it seems, it was a light (too lite) of a load for such a big case. Which had a reasonable amount of 'smoke' in a special case.
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01-07-2020, 01:43 PM
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Thanks again to all !!
I will not be using that load in that case(magnum).
I will be sticking to CCI 300's and WLP primers.
And probably not ordering Rainier again! Lol!
Thanks to all! Who responded!
- Lou
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01-07-2020, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder
I do use a disk measuring "hopper"(?) Dispenser?
I dont know what the name is called. It's been eons since I purchased my progressive.
But it dispenses powder through a disk measure.
In cc disks. From .30cc- 1.35cc give or take.
Its measurements are precise and the same. Depending on what powder I'm using.
I dont see any way of putting a funnel as the powder goes through a powder expander die. Directly into the cases.
My above mentioned problem may have been augmented from switching from the smaller 'special' cases, to the larger 'magnum ' cases.
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The "baffle" goes in the powder hopper (holder) here are directions to make one. You really don't need one if you keep the powder hopper at least 3/4 full.
Dropbox - baffle.pdf - Simplify your life
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01-07-2020, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
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Ahhh. I see. To make sure the 'charge' is accurate. Got it. So it goes in the 'hopper'.
I've never heard of this.
Idk if I want to put something in the cup. It's kinda small. And to me, if I decrease the size of powder it holds, I may run Into trouble, especially using bulky powder on bigger cases.
Sometimes I'll sit there loading and the cup although is transparent, I'll be at the bottom of the well quickly, loading cases with more than 9g each..
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01-07-2020, 04:53 PM
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I use Bullseye in just about everything including 44 Mag.. My favorite load, and most accurate load in my 629 Classic, is the same 5 grain load you are using with the CCI 300. I load it interchangeably with the plated 240 grain and hard cast 240 grain depending on which one I get the best deal on at the LGS. Yes, it's smokey and it smells but it sure does shoot great! There's nothing better than coming home from a range session with a gun looking like it's been in a chimney fire! If you are finding too much fouling for your tastes, try switching to 5.5 grains of Winchester 231. It will give you the same 800 FPS but is not quite as accurate for me. I only crimp enough to remove the mouth flare. I'm loading on a Dillon 550 with their powder measure which will throw between 4.9 and 5.1 grains depending on how much I jostle the press.
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01-08-2020, 08:51 AM
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There's nothing wrong with using bullseye for lite/plinking loads in the 44mag. Bullseye's an excellent powder but like all powders, bullseye have a pressure curve where it really shines. Stay above that minimum pressure and your golden.
Can't even begin to count the # of posts quoting 2.7gr of bullseye/148gr hbwc in a 38spl. +/- 14,500 psi
3.5gr in a 38spl pushing 158gr bullets. +/- 15,500psi
5.0gr of bullseye in a 45acp case/225gr cast rn bullet +/- 15,000psi
5.0gr of bullseye 240gr lswc/44spl +/- 15,000psi
Speer who is known for having low pressure load data for their soft swaged lead bullets lists for their 240gr swaged lead swc:
starting load 5.5gr of bullseye
max load 6.0gr of bullseye
The problem with that 5.0gr load is the bullet style/crimp isn't aiding in the buildup of the short start pressure along with it's a +/- 11,000psi load to begin with.
Take a look at your cases and see if theirs soot on 1 side of them after shooting your soft load. That's a tell tale sign that there's not enough pressure with that load to seal the cylinders. Make no mistake about bullets seated crooked do nothing but either give false reading of under pressure with lite loads. Along with magnifying the soot.
There's nothing wrong with bullseye powder, couldn't even begin to count how many #'s of it I've burned over the decades. At the end of the day your going to find that lite loads in the 44mags like:
6.0gr +/- fast burning powders like bullseye/clays/reddot
6.5gr +/- greendot/trailboss/American select/ww321
7.0gr +/- unique/herco/power pistol
Last I knew you could go up to +/- 9.8gr of bullseye with a 240gr lead swc in the 44mag. Bump your load up doing ladder tests starting at 5.8gr going up in .2gr increments. I doubt you'll get past 6.6gr to find what your looking for.
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