Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:45 AM
tedog's Avatar
tedog tedog is online now
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 562
Likes: 525
Liked 443 Times in 141 Posts
Default barrel leading

A friend of mine said he cleaned lead from the bore of his 44 Blackhawk by firing a jacketed round through it. I don't think I would do this. Any thoughts out there?
__________________
Who are those guys?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 01-08-2020, 12:40 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is online now
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 5,106
Likes: 10,312
Liked 8,362 Times in 2,973 Posts
Default

My thoughts are that you might get away with it on a slightly leaded barrel, but if it's heavily leaded you stand the risk of a severe overpressure situation due to a partially obstructed bore. All the lead is bound to increase resistance, which will let pressures rise to dangerous levels.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 01-08-2020, 12:43 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,933
Likes: 4
Liked 2,870 Times in 1,459 Posts
Default

That's one of those "conventional wisdom" tenets from way back. Sometimes it works, sometimes it partially works, but that's based only on my cursory glances over years of occasionally trying the procedure. I've never used my borescope to verify how much lead was actually removed or how much may have been ironed into the grooves.

When I have leading, I prefer a brush and solvent. Ideally, however, it's best to figure out what is causing the leading and correct the problem.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 01-08-2020, 02:34 PM
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 6,146
Likes: 392
Liked 2,528 Times in 1,429 Posts
Default

I would never do it.

Job 1 is to find out why you are getting leading in the first place. Lead too soft? Lead too hard? Improper bullet fit and more.

Soak the inside of the barrel with a good lead cleaner and let it sit for an hour or more. Use a nylon brush for light leading or a bronze brush wrapped in copper chor-boy for heavier leading. That will get the bore clean but again, find out why you are leading in the first place.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 01-08-2020, 02:50 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,933
Likes: 4
Liked 2,870 Times in 1,459 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
My thoughts are that you might get away with it on a slightly leaded barrel, but if it's heavily leaded you stand the risk of a severe overpressure situation due to a partially obstructed bore. All the lead is bound to increase resistance, which will let pressures rise to dangerous levels.
I certainly hope common sense would prevail in a situation where the lead buildup is severe, to the point where the leading forms a bore obstruction. Mild, barely visible leading is hardly such a condition, but I still question whether the firing of a jacketed bullet is preferable to removing the lead with solvent and a brush.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 01-08-2020, 03:22 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 3,012
Liked 800 Times in 409 Posts
Default

That aint a good idea . To have good results with cast bullets in a revolver it's necessary that cylinder throats be larger than bore . You want the bore to be as slick as possible . Any tight spots in bore should be lapped out . If you firelap do not use jacketed bullets , use soft lead & just enough powder to have bullet clear the barrel no more . Clean & reslug bore often as you don't want to overdo it . Many Rugers have undersize cylinder throats that must be reamed or honed to correct size . This should be done prior to lapping bore . Often the bore will have tight spots that need to be lapped out usually where barrel is screwed into frame , sight dovetails , roll marks on barrel can all be potential tight spots . All that done , Size your bullets .002 larger than final bore dimension . Bullets should be able to be pushed through cylinder throats with light to moderate pressure . Alloy must be correct for pressure of the load . Bullets must fit the gun . A quality lube should be used . If leading occurs it's usually due to undersized bullets , too hard an alloy , undersize cylinder throats , rough bore & wrong lube . You get everything right you should have next to none . Once barrel is seasoned you can just run some patches down barrel & you're good to go .

Last edited by boatbum101; 01-08-2020 at 03:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 01-08-2020, 03:42 PM
Bronco89 Bronco89 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: TN Hills
Posts: 288
Likes: 435
Liked 601 Times in 155 Posts
Default

There are many ways to solve this issue. Some loads lead worse than others. Universal loaded at start loads with swagged bullets for example will lead like there's no tomorrow. Solution. stay within 10% of DNE load, once you have worked your way up there. I did this with Trail Boss, and ended up with a sweet load that was light, yet didn't lead much at all.

However, when you do get leading, it isn't hard to clean out. Lead will oxidize, and a good cleaner helps it to do just that. After a couple of weeks, I'll go back and clean it again with a bronze tornado brush, then follow that with my normal cleaning. Barrel looks great. I shoot 99% lead. I'd go photography my barrel if I wasn't lazy. LOL Maybe I'll get s photo this afternoon.
__________________
Hillbilly
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2020, 03:53 PM
thebolt thebolt is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Likes: 36
Liked 117 Times in 24 Posts
Default

I fired revolvers extensively when I was a young cop and all we had was lead for training and duty rounds. I hand loaded quite a bit and found lead can really make a mess of a barrel with high velocity rounds. I used solvents, a cleaning brush, and a "Lewis lead remover" (you are obviously a young pup if you have to ask), all with minimal success for the hours of work. I later found an item which will remove your lead easily. I found the initial cleaning tool at a gun show which was marketed by a firearms company. I later found the identical item marketed at a very inexpensive price. I am going to list the first supplier (with pricing at mere $4.99) so you will verify my claim that it's actually used for lead removal.

https://www.midway.usa.com/product/939195748



Now I am going to save you money and tell you where to find it at a very inexpensive price. Go to your local grocery store and get the identical same thing for much less. Here is a link to the same product at Amazon but it's 1/2 the price of Midway and you get three of them for less than the price of one at midway.

https://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Brite-214C-Stainless-Scrubbing-Scouring/dp/B002CQTXBC[/URL]





Cut a little bit of this pad off and wrap it on a wire or nylon bore brush and use it as you normally would in your bore. You will be shocked to see the lead falling right out with a few passes. I used this for 40 years and it's amazing.

You can also use this same pad for removing rust from the surface of a neglected firearm. I was concerned about trying it at first and I used an oil on the surface along with the pad. It takes rust right off and it does not harm the blue or stainless finish. I know you will be cautious at first, just like I was. You'll like this and you will never be without one again. It also works to clean the powder burns from the face of the cylinder and similar places.

Enjoy this time saving item and try it on rust if you run across it on a firearm.
__________________
LE Det/Instructor-retired

Last edited by thebolt; 01-08-2020 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 01-08-2020, 03:58 PM
Bronco89 Bronco89 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: TN Hills
Posts: 288
Likes: 435
Liked 601 Times in 155 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebolt View Post
......... I used solvents, a cleaning brush, and a "Lewis lead remover" (you are obviously a young pup if you have to ask), ....
Yep.
I haven't thought about Lewis Lead remover in years.
__________________
Hillbilly
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:00 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
US Veteran
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 11,245
Liked 3,208 Times in 1,569 Posts
Thumbs down

I know people who devoutly believe they delead their barrel by firing jacketed ammo. Maybe if the leading is minimal and soft the jacketed bullet will remove it.

If the leading is heavy, firing jacketed ammo seems to just smooth the lead in the bore. Six weeks later the bore will show some lead bits which have worked out of the bore due to oxidation.
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:02 PM
Carrier Carrier is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 365
Likes: 71
Liked 199 Times in 108 Posts
Default

My SBH would lead up from forcing cone to muzzle with only a few cylinders no matter what lead bullets I used. Had the throats opened up to .432 and 11 degree cut to forcing cone. Now I can shoot several hundred through it and get only a couple of slivers just in front of the forcing cone.
I tried shooting plated and jacketed bullets to remove the lead but there will still be very small slivers left. Something I would never try before to remove the large amount of leading before having this work done to it.
Using a bronze brush removes the little amount of lead in a couple of strokes now.
I would suggest to your friend to get his Blackhawk checked out by a good Smith before trying to shoot the lead out. Because it does not remove it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:04 PM
Inusuit's Avatar
Inusuit Inusuit is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SE Wyoming
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 3,314
Liked 2,857 Times in 1,053 Posts
Default

A friend and I shot a lot of lead SWC bullets in IPSC competition. He was convinced that a jacketed bullet removed lead deposits from his .45 ACP. My opinion was that the jacket merely "ironed" the lead into the grooves so it appeared lead was removed.

I had an Outers Foul Out system which we used on his barrel. Lead came out in strips.

So I have the opinion that it's an old wive's tale.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:12 PM
Bronco89 Bronco89 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: TN Hills
Posts: 288
Likes: 435
Liked 601 Times in 155 Posts
Default

Horrible photo, but it's a $30 phone.
This really wasn't leaded to bad to begin with as I'm shooting Universal with 158gr, LRNFP at 10% under DO Not Exceed Load. These bullets were Hunters Supply brand. Bronze brush & Remingtom Bore Brite was all that I used. I know that the photo would mean more from the throat side, but I can't get my phone up there.

Anyways, The right load/bullet and your troubles melt away. Be patent in your cleaning. I never worry about lead the day I get back from the range. I get the gunk out. and put in a good coating of bore cleaner. It's usually about a week later, I get to working on the lead. I do the same for my 44, (This is a 38spcl S&W 64) I get to the range about once a month, so there is time. I wish I could get there more, but life has demands.
Attached Thumbnails
barrel leading-img_20200108_140220-jpg  
__________________
Hillbilly

Last edited by Bronco89; 01-08-2020 at 04:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:41 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 3,012
Liked 800 Times in 409 Posts
Default

Never ever put a stainless brush or strips of a stainless cleaning pad in your barrel . Use bronze brushes & copper only cleaning pad strips . Stainless will scratch & damage a bore .
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:49 PM
GBertolet GBertolet is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Likes: 4
Liked 131 Times in 71 Posts
Default

I have used jacketed ammo to clean out lightly leaded barrels. Works great. A cylinder full cleans out leading nice. I would not do this on a heavy leaded barrel, as pressures will rise. As suggested in an earlier post, a Lewis lead remover works great. They are marketed now under various names. I would not use steel wool on your barrel. Cylinder yes, barrel no. Although it works great, it will eventually score your barrel, affecting accuracy. Get bronze wool, sometimes marketed as Chore Boy. Available online or your local grocery store. This has all the advantages of steel wool, without damaging your barrel, as it is softer than steel. Just wrap some around an old cleaning brush, making a snug fit in your barrel, and you are good to go.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:49 AM
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,598
Likes: 2,470
Liked 3,707 Times in 2,249 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedog View Post
A friend of mine said he cleaned lead from the bore of his 44 Blackhawk by firing a jacketed round through it. I don't think I would do this. Any thoughts out there?
No what happens is you iron the lead into the pores of the steel & never really get it out. Then follow with more lead & any copper in there strips more lead, & so on. Just clean the bore properly. Better still, use proper size bullets & they wont lead.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:35 AM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is online now
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 28,533
Likes: 36,530
Liked 26,009 Times in 12,435 Posts
Default I use mostly coated bullets...

...maybe some plated some jacketed. I don't use plain lead except for .38 wadcutters. Even when I did use lubed hard cast bullets I've had the chore boy covered bronze brush very tightly down my barrels and haven't seen any lead. Maybe I'm just lucky but I figger I will worry about it when it's a problem.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:15 PM
Funflyer's Avatar
Funflyer Funflyer is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 755
Likes: 673
Liked 1,121 Times in 407 Posts
Default

I avoid leading altogether by powder-coating my castings. Have pushed some to 1400fps and so far, so good.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 01-09-2020, 02:40 PM
GBertolet GBertolet is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Likes: 4
Liked 131 Times in 71 Posts
Default

This has been argued before, but here is my take on this issue. I cannot fathom on how a softer copper jacket can swage lead into the metal pores, of a much harder steel barrel. The steel has only so many pores. A smooth finished bore has fewer pores than a rougher finished bore does. After they are allegedly filled, then what? If there is any lead swaging to be done, it will be into the softer copper bullet, which will leave the barrel.

In any of my firearms, I have not seen lead forged into steel. The barrels are spotless afterwards. Others will disagree with this, and maybe they are right, but until I see a scientific lab analysis, with empirical evidence, all arguments, pro and con, will just be opinions.

Properly sized bullets to cylinder throat size, virtually eliminates leading, maybe a few whisps at the rifling leade, that's it. I have done my own powder coating, and the bullets leave the bore spotless. If you already have casting and sizing equiptment, for about $25 and an old toaster oven, you too can powder coat your bullets.

Last edited by GBertolet; 01-09-2020 at 03:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-10-2020, 01:38 PM
LoboGunLeather's Avatar
LoboGunLeather LoboGunLeather is offline
US Veteran
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,393
Likes: 7,471
Liked 19,486 Times in 3,570 Posts
Default

I have been casting and shooting lead-alloy bullets since 1973, and have gone through tens of thousands. Probably the single most interesting segment of the shooting & reloading hobby, in my opinion.

I could offer some thoughts on how to deal with leading, and some more thoughts on how to avoid leading from occurring, but all that would do is fuel the arguments for and against any aspect of the subject.

All I will say now is that experiencing a serious leading problem one time should be sufficient to cause a person to learn more about what he is doing.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:29 PM
federali's Avatar
federali federali is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 12,890
Liked 7,448 Times in 2,078 Posts
Default Don't Do It.

Back in the late 80s I was a student at the S&W Academy, revolver armorers' school. An instructor brought me a Glock pistol, knowing I had attended the Glock school, for assistance in dismantling the gun. A customer sent the gun to S&W, blaming their ammo for a catastrophic failure. He too tried to clean a heavily leaded barrel by firing a jacketed Hollowpoint through it. You're not supposed to fire lead bullets through a polygonal barrel as it can cause excess leading.
He paid the price.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:14 PM
GBertolet GBertolet is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Likes: 4
Liked 131 Times in 71 Posts
Default

Glocks are notorious for leading, due to the polygonal rifling. This can be mitigated by using bullets of proper hardness on the large side, ex .357-.358, instead of the standard .356, in 9mm. Powder coating makes a difference also. My G 17 does not lead at all following this concept.

Although I have no reservations over cleaning SLIGHT leading, with jacketed. It NEVER should be used on more heavily leaded barrels. People on all sides of this issue can agree with this. For those, bronze wool or the Lewis lead remover would be the proper method of lead removal. The owner of the Glock mentioned above, was solely responsible for his own misfortune. An expensive lesson.

I was a R.O. at a GSSF match, and a competitor's G 21 exploded. The magazine was blown out, the grip was split, and a piece of the grip hit me in the face, which required some minor medical treatment. The owner was shooting some grungy lead ammo, and admitted he had not cleaned the gun in a while. A definite over pressurization from a restricted bore. Surprisingly, the Glock armorer hurried over and took the gun, promising they would take care of it. No gunmaker want's negative publicity, even if it is not their fault.

Last edited by GBertolet; 01-10-2020 at 03:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:23 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,863
Likes: 1,252
Liked 1,147 Times in 665 Posts
Default

I never tried a jacketed bullet to remove lead from a barrel, I used a Lewis Lead and developed loads that do not lead the barrels (all my handguns). First item to consider is bullet to gun fit...

FWIW; I have read about a home made solvent to remove leading; vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Do not use this. I tried it on my Dan Wesson 44H and left it in the barrel too long (8 hrs,) and it pitted the barrel...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:42 PM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 379
Liked 993 Times in 497 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBertolet View Post
Glocks are notorious for leading, due to the polygonal rifling. This can be mitigated by using bullets of proper hardness on the large side, ex .357-.358, instead of the standard .356, in 9mm. Powder coating makes a difference also. My G 17 does not lead at all following this concept.
I bought a cut rifled aftermarket (Storm Lake) barrel for my Glock. IMO, it's easier to spend $100 on a cast friendly barrel than start a science project trying to make polygonal rifling work.
Back on original topic, it's a better idea to brass brush (with favorite gun cleaning goo) the lead out.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:11 PM
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,598
Likes: 2,470
Liked 3,707 Times in 2,249 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
Back in the late 80s I was a student at the S&W Academy, revolver armorers' school. An instructor brought me a Glock pistol, knowing I had attended the Glock school, for assistance in dismantling the gun. A customer sent the gun to S&W, blaming their ammo for a catastrophic failure. He too tried to clean a heavily leaded barrel by firing a jacketed Hollowpoint through it. You're not supposed to fire lead bullets through a polygonal barrel as it can cause excess leading.
He paid the price.
I have fired 1000s of lead bullets thru my glock OEM bbls with no issues. You jut have to clean more often. By coating, you even eliminate that issue. Yes, early Glock 40s were being kb when mostly LEO were shooting led practice ammo in them & not cleaning.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:36 PM
GBertolet GBertolet is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Likes: 4
Liked 131 Times in 71 Posts
Default

If you pay attention to what you are doing, you can fire lead bullets out of Glocks with no issues. Unfortunately, many do not pay attention to examining, and cleaning their barrels, after every range session, and having properly prepared ammo to feed their Glock with. These people are the ones that you hear of the Kaboom's with.

Yes, Glock 40's were especially susceptible to KB's when improper lead bullets are used. Too soft or undersized. Before I got my own mold, I was give some 40 cal commercially cast bullets to load in a G27. In less than two 10 round magazines, the rifling was invisible. I stopped to check because my accuracy went to hell. Had I had kept shooting, a KB would at some point be inevitable. It took lots of scrubbing to clean the leading out. With my own bullets now, cast of harder alloy, and sized to .402, no leading whatsoever.

Last edited by GBertolet; 01-10-2020 at 04:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:36 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,933
Likes: 4
Liked 2,870 Times in 1,459 Posts
Default

I've never been a fan of Glocks, but I tried a cast bullet load in a Glock that had been trouble free in several 9mm pistols. Chambering the first round locked the gun up tight. This was more than thirty years ago, but it was obvious that the loaded cartridge was too large in diameter for the Glock chamber.

This was before I discovered that .358" cast bullets were more accurate in most 9mm pistols than the .356" bullets I was using at the time. I think Glock only had a couple of models then, a 17 and a 19. Perhaps chambers on newer Glocks aren't so tight. However, I didn't know that cast bullets weren't recommended for use in Glocks, as someone here stated.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:36 PM
stonebuster stonebuster is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Northeast
Posts: 260
Likes: 415
Liked 471 Times in 152 Posts
Default Copper Chore Boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbum101 View Post
Never ever put a stainless brush or strips of a stainless cleaning pad in your barrel . Use bronze brushes & copper only cleaning pad strips . Stainless will scratch & damage a bore .
Walmart 100% copper Chore Boy wrapped around a bore brush has worked removing lead for me. I shoot mostly FMJ at the range to avoid leading.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:48 PM
GBertolet GBertolet is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Likes: 4
Liked 131 Times in 71 Posts
Default

I found also that .357 and .358 bullets tend to shoot more accurate in most 9mm's, if they will chamber. Most 9mm's will accept .358 bullets.

The chamber support in gen 3 Glocks on up, are better supported underneath, giving a better safety factor. When a Glock KB's, it's usually the unsupported bottom of the case that ruptures, allowing hi pressure gasses to blow out the magazine, and grip. 40's are most susceptible to this, due to the dynamics of this cartridge. I have gen 2's and gen 3's, so I am keenly aware of this.

Last edited by GBertolet; 01-10-2020 at 04:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:50 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,863
Likes: 1,252
Liked 1,147 Times in 665 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shocker View Post
I bought a cut rifled aftermarket (Storm Lake) barrel for my Glock. IMO, it's easier to spend $100 on a cast friendly barrel than start a science project trying to make polygonal rifling work.
Back on original topic, it's a better idea to brass brush (with favorite gun cleaning goo) the lead out.
Not all that difficult, just a bit of info; The Truth about Glocks and Cast
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:36 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 145
Liked 1,373 Times in 777 Posts
Default

Shooting is not cleaning whatever the bullet you shoot.I think you'll just iron the lead in the grooves and we all know that once the process of leading has started it keeps increasing.
Clean properly and find what causes the leading would be,as suggested the proper way.
Think of it:we shoot no GC lead bullets in rifles at 1300fps without leading and so why would a handgun be different?If it can be done in a long pipe so can it be in a short one.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-29-2020, 08:59 PM
Tex1001's Avatar
Tex1001 Tex1001 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 882
Likes: 1,311
Liked 1,464 Times in 447 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
I have been casting and shooting lead-alloy bullets since 1973
I've been doing it since 1967.
The jacketed bullet clean out theory is so logical on its surface but the fact is, when shooting a jacketed through a leaded bore the jacket slides over the lead and irons it into the steel pores, as stated before.
Trying to clean a bore this way never works. Always use a brass scrubber of some sort.
__________________
I'm with her

Last edited by Tex1001; 02-01-2020 at 07:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-30-2020, 12:27 AM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 632
Liked 656 Times in 325 Posts
Default

...use properly sized bullets and pay attention to hardness, not too hard for lower velocities. I found that a 12 BNH hardness is adequate for my entry level magnum loads (1200 FPS). I’ve pushed Speer lead bullets to 950 FPS without leading.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:07 AM
ACORN's Avatar
ACORN ACORN is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Huntingdon Pa.
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 3,380
Liked 4,738 Times in 1,526 Posts
Default

+1 on the Lewis Lead Remover. I picked one up, in the box, at a dealers $2 “treasure table” in .44 a couple years ago.
I love going through those “junk” piles. Scored a Colt Det. Spec. factory hammer shroud for $1. A set of NIB J frame Pachs. for $5.
__________________
Who are those guys?

Last edited by ACORN; 01-30-2020 at 11:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:14 AM
jake1945's Avatar
jake1945 jake1945 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S.E. Iowa
Posts: 409
Likes: 192
Liked 367 Times in 161 Posts
Default

JB bore compound works for me along with a stiff bore brush.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:17 PM
dla dla is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 911
Likes: 212
Liked 328 Times in 198 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedog View Post
A friend of mine said he cleaned lead from the bore of his 44 Blackhawk by firing a jacketed round through it. I don't think I would do this. Any thoughts out there?
I used to do this with 45acp figuring that the pressure increase would still be well within safe limits of the barrel.
As working pressures go up, I feel less confident of the safety. I dont do it with 44 mag - I use a bronze or stainless bore brush.
I definitely wont do it with a 65Kpsi rifle cartridge.
I know that a famous military experimenter (forgot the name) tested this in rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-31-2020, 05:03 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 2,747
Liked 4,532 Times in 1,955 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBertolet View Post
This has been argued before, but here is my take on this issue. I cannot fathom on how a softer copper jacket can swage lead into the metal pores, of a much harder steel barrel. The steel has only so many pores. A smooth finished bore has fewer pores than a rougher finished bore does. After they are allegedly filled, then what? If there is any lead swaging to be done, it will be into the softer copper bullet, which will leave the barrel.

In any of my firearms, I have not seen lead forged into steel. The barrels are spotless afterwards. Others will disagree with this, and maybe they are right, but until I see a scientific lab analysis, with empirical evidence, all arguments, pro and con, will just be opinions.

Properly sized bullets to cylinder throat size, virtually eliminates leading, maybe a few whisps at the rifling leade, that's it. I have done my own powder coating, and the bullets leave the bore spotless. If you already have casting and sizing equiptment, for about $25 and an old toaster oven, you too can powder coat your bullets.
OK, look at it this way. Even if you are only soldering a one molecule thick layer of copper and then lead and then copper, the barrel is not clean. A major barrel manufacturer has said half the new barrels he installed replace barrels that were plated with layers of copper and lead, not worn out. Use the electronic Foul Out and see what you are leaving in your "clean" barrels.
__________________
Science plus Art
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-31-2020, 05:31 PM
glenwolde's Avatar
glenwolde glenwolde is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: The South
Posts: 1,138
Likes: 622
Liked 1,955 Times in 682 Posts
Default

I have a Lewis Lead Remover and don't use it much anymore. I do like the forcing cone tip.

I find that a brass jagged tip and a patch cut from one of those yellow Lead Remover cloths will remove any lead you have in short order as long as it's a nice tight fit to the bore.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-31-2020, 09:00 PM
wrkerr's Avatar
wrkerr wrkerr is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 165
Likes: 4
Liked 327 Times in 84 Posts
Default

From the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook Third Edition, 1980, page 94.

Just saying.
Attached Thumbnails
barrel leading-lyman-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:25 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is online now
US Veteran
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 4,088
Liked 17,842 Times in 5,093 Posts
Default

Ah, because it is in print it must be fact.

Your only going to smooth the coating of lead down the barrels surfaces. It may well get tightly bonded to the surface. Once coated it is not going any deeper, but can get thicker. It isn't going to get driven into the steels "pores" any deeper either. I can't see how a soft copper jacket will remove it. Show me a jacket bullet that is coated with lead from being fired down a leaded barrel and I will believe you. It sure wasn't blown out in front the bullet. It will keep SLOWLY getting wiped down the bore and some small amounts may leave.

CLEAN YOUR DIRTY BARREL
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #41  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:38 PM
wrkerr's Avatar
wrkerr wrkerr is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 165
Likes: 4
Liked 327 Times in 84 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Ah, because it is in print it must be fact.

Your only going to smooth the coating of lead down the barrels surfaces. It may well get tightly bonded to the surface. Once coated it is not going any deeper, but can get thicker. It isn't going to get driven into the steels "pores" any deeper either. I can't see how a soft copper jacket will remove it. Show me a jacket bullet that is coated with lead from being fired down a leaded barrel and I will believe you. It sure wasn't blown out in front the bullet. It will keep SLOWLY getting wiped down the bore and some small amounts may leave.

CLEAN YOUR DIRTY BARREL
Do what you want. It has worked for me for 48 years and I will continue to do so.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-01-2020, 02:48 PM
GBertolet GBertolet is offline
Member
barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading barrel leading  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Likes: 4
Liked 131 Times in 71 Posts
Default

This argument is never going to end. Both sides are firmly entrenched in their opinions. I believe one thing I hope we can all agree on, is a SEVERELY leaded barrel should not have the leading removed by shooting it out with jacketed ammo. Heavy leading will act as a partial bore obstruction, raising pressures significantly. With factory or full power reloads, this can exceed the margin of safety built into your firearm. Beware of flying objects if this happens.

Much to the chagrin of many Glock owners, this had happened when shooting too soft or undersized lead bullets, in the polygonal rifling. Kaboom! The case ruptures at the unsupported part of the chamber, the high pressure gas goes down, blowing the magazine out the bottom, splitting the polymer grip, sending some shards of plastic flying. The shooter drops the gun like a hot potato. I have witnessed this at a GSSF match.

Last edited by GBertolet; 02-01-2020 at 02:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Barrel leading Toeknee Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 15 02-13-2019 05:08 PM
Barrel leading JTPro Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 16 03-31-2018 05:27 PM
Barrel leading Herman1973 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 17 04-02-2017 09:13 AM
barrel leading SW CQB 45 Reloading 4 03-18-2012 11:15 PM
617 barrel leading up pea shooter S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 11 08-08-2010 12:09 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)