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Old 01-12-2020, 04:55 PM
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Post .45acp +P looking for load data

My go to load for the .45 is 7.5 grains HS6 and a 230 grain XTP hollow point.

I'm almost out of powder and brass so I'm thinking about stepping up to a +P load with new brass and a cleaner burning powder. Any of you folks have some pointers for me?

Lining up work for my new bench
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Old 01-12-2020, 05:37 PM
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Look at 185 or 200 grain bullets and Blue Dot by Aliant. I loaded a few hundred in the late 80's and just can't bring my self to shoot them in my beloved 1911's! Accuracy is outstanding! But 45 ACP will already kill anything I can come across, how dead does it need to be? Dead? Double Dead? or Super Duper Special Dead?

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Old 01-12-2020, 06:47 PM
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Accurate Powder / Ramshot powder co lists 45acp +P load data . Regards, Paul
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:51 PM
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I'd skip +P in .45 ACP. More pressure, slide goes faster, more gun wear for zero measurable gain. Little margin for error. Stick with John Moses Browning's specs and you can't go wrong.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:14 PM
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Yep, I would agree with just loading to regular 45 ACP specs and not +P, as it's just not needed and beats your gun up. Load to around 900 ft/sec and you should be good to go.

If you want hotter, you can get there without going +P. I had bought some Shooter's World powders when Midsouth had a free hazmat with the purchase of SW powders and I had bought some Ultimate Pistol and Auto Pistol. Both work very well in 45 ACP too and it meters great also, much like Accurate powders. Data is a bit scarce, but Shooter's World does have some so you aren't totally in the blind. I loaded up a box of pretty much max non +P loads of Auto Pistol and out of my ACW 1911 (5" bbl), 16 shots averaged 999 ft/sec, 34 ES and 9 SD, shooting Zero 230 grain FMJ bullets. That was pretty much as hot as anything I would want to run through a stock 1911 pistol I think and I wouldn't even give it a steady diet of those either. That was more an "exploring the performance of the powder" type load and it wasn't the first loads I had done with that powder in 45 ACP either.

As for different powders to try, I've found that 45 ACP isn't a picky round to load. I've had good luck with Accurate #5 and #2, SW Clean Shot, Ultimate Pistol and Auto Pistol, CFE-P, Longshot, Power Pistol, BE-86, and probably others that don't pop into my head immediately.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:35 PM
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Is there an actual SAMMI spec for 45 +P?

I run 7gr of Unique, no signs of pressure in my guns, seems hot. I doubt it’s hitting 1000 FPS.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:38 PM
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Is there an actual SAMMI spec for 45 +P?

I run 7gr of Unique, no signs of pressure in my guns, seems hot. I doubt itís hitting 1000 FPS.
According to Wikipedia, there is a SAAMI +P rating for the 45 ACP. Normal 45 is 21,000 psi and the +P is rated to 23,000 psi.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Howe View Post
My go to load for the .45 is 7.5 grains HS6 and a 230 grain XTP hollow point.

I'm almost out of powder and brass so I'm thinking about stepping up to a +P load with new brass and a cleaner burning powder. Any of you folks have some pointers for me?

Lining up work for my new bench
I used Blue Dot for loading a 255 gr. cast SWC to almost 950 fps, very accurate load too. But Unique has been good to me as well. And, I completely support you in loading +P ammunition for your 45 ACP if that's what you want to do!
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:27 AM
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Yeow! 999 fps in 230 grains? I'd run it about 830 or so.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:11 AM
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I like Blue Dot powder too but my first choice for a 45ACP (+P) load would be Power Pistol.

You'll have less unburnt residue than with B-D in what's still a low pressure load.

Loading for a revolver or pistol?

Sierra's reloading manual has plenty of (+P) & revolver loads.

.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:41 AM
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Need some details ,
Pistol or revolver ... make and model .
Bullet weight , cast , coated, plated or jacketed .
Any powder preferences .

In handloading +P ammo ....the devil's in the details .
Gary
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
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Yeow! 999 fps in 230 grains? I'd run it about 830 or so.
Yeah, I normally don't run that kind of load in my 1911 either. After chronoing those, I shot the rest of the box out of my 25-2. Let me tell ya, my ACW was really chunking those empty cases far.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:58 AM
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IMHO forget about the +p factor. Go with a hardball load 830fps is a shoot for load. You don't need to to beat up a gun with +p. Lastly remember --
Sight alignment, Sight picture and trigger control are the keyes.
Jim
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:31 PM
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It just sounds painful for no really good reason. I think there may be some psychiatric term for that but I don't know what it is.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:47 PM
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A box of +P .45 Ammo will last me longer than that rest of my life. I use it only when I'm fishing in mean critter county. For punching holes in paper and recyclables, I need only enough energy to cycle slides.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:45 PM
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First off, I have no problems shooting 45ACP+P ammunition out of any Modern manufactured firearm that is chambered for the 45ACP and is in good mechanical condition.

I have put probably close to 10,000 rounds of factory loaded 45ACP+P through a single P220 over the decades and many more rounds through other various 45s. I absolutely see the benefit of more power due to some real-life incidents where a barrier needed to be breached before the projectile could impact a target

I have slightly less than a case of Winchester Ranger RA45TP remaining on hand for personal defensive ammunition. Ever 6 Months I shoot the ammunition in my carry firearms and replenish them with fresh rounds

All that said, I am in agreement with BLUEDOT37 that Power Pistol is one of the top powders for High Performance 45 caliber hand-loaded ammunition

While I do not hand-load the 45ACP cartridge to +P levels any longer, I do hand load 45SUPER brass to levels above 45ACP+P pressure for use in firearms that are appropriate to the cartridge.



I believe it was an older copy of the Accurate loading guide that gave me my first taste of +P loads for the 45ACP cartridge. I am referring to the large book that they sell, not the little pamphlet that they give away for free

Using Power pistol with a Winchester 230 grain JHP projectile I have chronographed just under 1100 FPS out of a 4.25" HK USPf. I have not chronographed that same load out of the Springfield LS, a 6" USP Match or a 6" USP Elite yet.

I shoot any and all of the 45 ACP, 45ACP+P and 45SUPER loads from my Model 625 Revolvers. It was the acquisition of my 625 V-Comp for shooting pins that really motivated me to seek more power.

The 45SUPER really helps the V-Comp do its thing while throwing pins of the table with Authority

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Old 01-13-2020, 07:33 PM
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My old favorite load is from my IPSA days, 200gr sac 5.7 gr 231,180gr sac 6.5gr 231. Works for me.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:48 PM
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Alliant's webpage has a whole section for 45+P

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

However given my own experience their data is conservative. My Department issued HST+P 230 gr for 2 years. Out of three different 5 inch guns I found the average vel to be 970 fps, almost exactly 100 fps faster then standard HST.

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Old 01-13-2020, 09:36 PM
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If you're pushing a 230 FMJ around 1,000fps yu're already in +P territory . Blue Dot will get you there , but for these type loads I prefer VVN-340 or RS Silhouette . Both have anti-flash additives , something neither Blue Dot or Power Pistol have .
I cast a 200gr RNHP with a smaller cavity than the Lyman Devestator & use 30 to 1 alloy . Great expansion , no shed petals . I use it for 4 legged pests . Never tried it on the 2 legged variety .
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Howe View Post
My go to load for the .45 is 7.5 grains HS6 and a 230 grain XTP hollow point.

I'm almost out of powder and brass so I'm thinking about stepping up to a +P load with new brass and a cleaner burning powder. Any of you folks have some pointers for me?

Lining up work for my new bench
Back during the powder shortages I was forced to try new powders and discovered Silhouette -good stuff. I also used Longshot, but it is just a tad too slow unless you're serious about +p and above.
I always found HS6 to be a little too flashy, Silhouette is much less so.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla View Post
Back during the powder shortages I was forced to try new powders and discovered Silhouette -good stuff. I also used Longshot, but it is just a tad too slow unless you're serious about +p and above.
I always found HS6 to be a little too flashy, Silhouette is much less so.
Love Silhouette for 230 gn., Longshot for 250 gn.!
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:30 PM
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Back during the powder shortages I was forced to try new powders and discovered Silhouette -good stuff.
Silhouette used to go by the name of WAP from Winchester

WAP was the GoTo powder for the 9x23 Winchester cartridge. I used to go through lots of WAP

It has also been used for other 9MM Major power factor cartridges,
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Old 01-15-2020, 03:23 PM
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Would a 460 Rowland drop in 1911 barrel kit from Clark Custom be a 45+p? The bullet is .45 and they use the same magazine.

Last edited by 4barrel; 01-15-2020 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:55 PM
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Would a 460 Rowland drop in 1911 barrel kit from Clark Custom be a 45+p? The bullet is .45 and they use the same magazine.
That drop in the barrel kit also has a compensator on the front of it. You would be making that particular firearm an inch or so longer

The pressures of the 460 Rowland are well in excess of the 45ACP/45ACP+P

Even though the cartridge overall length allows it to be used in 45ACP magazines, the 460 Rowland is a longer cartridge case.

So if you fired a 45ACP+P in there, handling the pressure will be no big deal, but you would be headspacing on the extractor instead of having the case mouth against the end of the chamber. So you do run the risk of a light strike on the primer
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Univibe View Post
I'd skip +P in .45 ACP. More pressure, slide goes faster, more gun wear for zero measurable gain. Little margin for error. Stick with John Moses Browning's specs and you can't go wrong.
What this guy said.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
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That drop in the barrel kit also has a compensator on the front of it. You would be making that particular firearm an inch or so longer

The pressures of the 460 Rowland are well in excess of the 45ACP/45ACP+P

Even though the cartridge overall length allows it to be used in 45ACP magazines, the 460 Rowland is a longer cartridge case.

So if you fired a 45ACP+P in there, handling the pressure will be no big deal, but you would be headspacing on the extractor instead of having the case mouth against the end of the chamber. So you do run the risk of a light strike on the primer
The brass is 1/8 longer so it will not fit in a standard 45acp but you seat the bullet the same as standard 45acp. I have a comp barrel in the pile if needed and was thinking you could make the chamber 1/8 deeper <Not sure how Clark does that-his kit is $400>-- and use the 460 brass to safely make a 1100 fps 45 acp+p load that wont fit another gun. I have the stuff but don't care about +p loads. All I care about is what it takes to make the tightest 10 shot group.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:23 AM
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I'd skip +P in .45 ACP. More pressure, slide goes faster, more gun wear for zero measurable gain. Little margin for error. Stick with John Moses Browning's specs and you can't go wrong.
Hmm....what about those same pistols chambered in 9mm and 38 Super? About 50% higher pressures than 45 ACP +P, and talk about the slide going faster!
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:43 AM
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Hmm....what about those same pistols chambered in 9mm and 38 Super? About 50% higher pressures than 45 ACP +P, and talk about the slide going faster!
Okay, but there are several differences.

1. The bullet on the 9s is much lighter than that of the .45. About half the weight, means much less recoil impulse.

2. The chamber and barrel are the same external dimensions of the .45, so that means the walls are much thicker and will handle much higher pressures.

3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.

Last edited by Univibe; 01-16-2020 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
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Okay, but there are several differences.

1. The bullet on the 9s is much lighter than that of the .45. About half the weight, means much less recoil impulse.

2. The chamber and barrel are the same external dimensions of the .45, so that means the walls are much thicker and will handle much higher pressures.

3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.
You forgot the 10mm, which both Colt and Kimber chamber. How is it the 40 S&W and 45 ACP +P too much for the 1911, but the 10mm isn't?

I mean if you have some sort of information, I'm all ears!
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
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Okay, but there are several differences.

1. The bullet on the 9s is much lighter than that of the .45. About half the weight, means much less recoil impulse.

2. The chamber and barrel are the same external dimensions of the .45, so that means the walls are much thicker and will handle much higher pressures.

3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.
Pressure doesn't move the slide.
+p is no big deal - in fact I dont know why they bother with that silly 19Kpsi anymore.

I shoot +p constantly - 185gr @1100fps. If I wanted a bear load, I would have no qualms about a 230gr at 1000+fps. In fact, Ramshot used to publish a recipe using Enforcer that took a 230gr above 1000fps and stayed below +p.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:58 PM
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Pressure doesn't move the slide.
+p is no big deal - in fact I dont know why they bother with that silly 19Kpsi anymore.

I shoot +p constantly - 185gr @1100fps. If I wanted a bear load, I would have no qualms about a 230gr at 1000+fps. In fact, Ramshot used to publish a recipe using Enforcer that took a 230gr above 1000fps and stayed below +p.
Almost 1,000 fps and just a smidge over standard pressure.

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Old 01-16-2020, 11:57 PM
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You forgot the 10mm, which both Colt and Kimber chamber. How is it the 40 S&W and 45 ACP +P too much for the 1911, but the 10mm isn't?

I mean if you have some sort of information, I'm all ears!
I've shot the Springfield 1911 in 10mm. The frame is beefed up, the slide seems heavier than a govt 1911, and the recoil spring is much tougher. The chamber is fully supported. It's essentially a 1911 on weight training.

Similarly, the .40 Browning hi-power had a heavier slide and a much stiffer recoil spring.

By contrast, the Kimber and Colt 40's were merely 1911s chambered in .40.

I have shot and examined all these guns and their counterparts in original chambering.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:41 PM
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What this guy said.
I agree with what this guy said about what this guy said.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:43 PM
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For my infrequent 45ACP +P 230gr loads I too load 45 Super cases. Longshot works well for loads for my modern revolver.
Silhouette (WAP) works well for 1911 and M&P loads, but I keep a very close watch on slide velocity.
I use Hornady web site data for both.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:34 AM
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If you're using Hodgdon's website's load data for Longshot & 45 ACP +P loads you have to go to the 45 Super section & then that's barely over standard 45 ACP pressure (18K CUP).

Their 230gr Longshot 45 SUPER load is 19.8K CUP, definitely not a true 45 SUPER load, but would qualify as 45 ACP (+P) if SAAMI defined one using CUP (only defined using PSI).

No need to use 45 SUPER brass for (+P) loads useless you have poorly supported chambers.

I shoot real 45 SUPER loads (45 ACP +P+) in several of my 3rd Gens, & revolvers as well as my Series 70 1911 set-up for these. No idea why (+P) would be too much for a 1911.

The OP never did tell us what he's loading for.

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Old 01-30-2020, 10:46 AM
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Okay, but there are several differences.
...
3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.
That's some of the craziest stuff I've heard in a while. The 45 ACP will push a 180 grain bullet to around 950 to 1000 FPS. A 40 S&W will push a 180 grain bullet to about 950 to 1000 FPS. Boutique ammo will push bullets faster for both rounds.

I have 6 1911s. The Colt Delta Elite is the lightweight of the bunch. I just weighed all of them and the DE weighs in at 2 lbs 3 ounces. All the others weigh more - from 2 lbs 4 ounces up to 2 lbs 7 ounces. Where is the slide and frame beefier on the 10MM? I'm not seeing it.

The Delta Elite does have a double recoil spring but that's more for marketing than anything else. The recoil springs main job is to load the next round from the magazine. The mainspring and firing pin stop have a much more pronounced effect on retarding the speed of the slide.

Sure +P will increase wear slightly, but you'll have spent many $1,000's on ammo before you'd ever see any difference in wear.

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Old 02-14-2020, 12:49 AM
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Interesting thread! I've experimented with the 460 Rowland in years past, still have a lot of the brass on hand, plus several assorted boxes of handloads. But my recent forays into the .452" family have led me to purchase another 625-3, as well as some Starline 45 Auto Rim brass for it. I've long heard that 45ACP power levels can be boosted safety in this modern gun, and as it happens, I also recently bought a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible in 45ACP/45 Long Colt, so I have two VERY strong platforms to experiment with when it comes to launching 45ACP boolits.

Anyone else experimented with hot 45 Auto Rim loads? I'm thinking with new brass I can safely approach 24-26,000 PSI loads, possibly even higher, in a pair of guns designed to take a lot more pressure than that.

What say the form folk? Any daredevils here? ;-)
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by papajohn428 View Post
Interesting thread! I've experimented with the 460 Rowland in years past, still have a lot of the brass on hand, plus several assorted boxes of handloads. But my recent forays into the .452" family have led me to purchase another 625-3, as well as some Starline 45 Auto Rim brass for it. I've long heard that 45ACP power levels can be boosted safety in this modern gun, and as it happens, I also recently bought a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible in 45ACP/45 Long Colt, so I have two VERY strong platforms to experiment with when it comes to launching 45ACP boolits.

Anyone else experimented with hot 45 Auto Rim loads? I'm thinking with new brass I can safely approach 24-26,000 PSI loads, possibly even higher, in a pair of guns designed to take a lot more pressure than that.

What say the form folk? Any daredevils here? ;-)
I'm not sure what you call "hot" but I do have one 45 AR load I use in my S&W 1917 that runs a 255 gr. cast SWC 925 fps.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:45 AM
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Anyone else experimented with hot 45 Auto Rim loads?
I'm thinking with new brass I can safely approach 24-26,000 PSI loads, possibly even higher...
No problem uploading Starline 45 Auto Rim brass, they are plenty strong. I load them to 45 Super power without issues.

Starline website says "The .45 Auto Rim... It is built with the same integrity as our 45 Colt case."

Their 45 Colt brass is good to 44 Magnum pressure.

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