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Old 01-14-2020, 05:41 PM
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Default A strange observation

Normally, I only trim the rifle cases that I repeatedly shoot in my target rifles, typically after every 4 firings. Because of some strange chambering issues over the past year, I have started to trim my 45ACP cases. I freely admit, I am cheap and about 75% of my 45 brass is range pickup and reloaded GI.

The rifle brass seems to stretch uniformly, showing a full circle of cut brass. The 45 brass is a different story. It looks like it doesn't stretch on a uniform basis. With many of the cases I am trimming, the relieved rim may vary from 1/8 of the case mouth to almost 3/4 of the case mouth, but rarely the entire case mouth.

Has anyone else that trims their pistol brass noticed this?
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:43 PM
BigMoneyGrip BigMoneyGrip is offline
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Maybe from an unsupported chamber and a bulge on one part of the case?
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:51 PM
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I've never needed to trim any straight-walled pistol case. In fact, I once bought a Lee .45 ACP case trimmer and it doesn't even touch the mouth.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:23 PM
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@SMSgt, I wish that I had that luck!

@BigMoneyGrip, these have all been fired in 1911s, and there are no bulged cases!

My suspicion is, that when the cases were drawn, they just weren't square to the case head.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:36 PM
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I have only trimmed rifle brass, often on every reloading. Not surprisingly, sometimes almost nothing even gets touched. Rifle brass doesn't seem to me to stretch very fast, and certainly not quite concentrically. Thus, your findings on pistol brass, including range pickups, does not not surprise me at all.

Why don't you watch this for a while, and maybe YOU can teach US something. I mean this quite seriously. I see nothing surprising, but there is nothing wrong with your eventual experience adding to our knowledge pool.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:57 PM
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I have never found a need to trim straight wall pistol brass

However, I stopped picking up stray range brass over 25 years ago.

I am fortunate that I had access to a range where several Local and Federal agencies shoot their qualifications.

I will use once-fired brass from when there is an agency qualification, but it is picked up moments after they depart
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
My suspicion is, that when the cases were drawn, they just weren't square to the case head.
How are you sure that they are "Square" Now? Do you have the capability to measure 30 or 45 minutes of Angle?

We all assume that our case trimmers are "Square" but the only trimmer I know of that makes the mouth 90 degrees to the case wall is the LW Wilson (They are a pain to do pistol cases in!) Most trimmers make the case mouth parallel to the rim at best! If the bolt face is off from the chamber, the fired brass will then be out of "Square"! Once this happens to the brass there is no way to get thing back to "Square" available to reloaders!

On the other hand, does it make a difference? Especially in handgun ammo?

Ivan
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
On the other hand, does it make a difference? Especially in handgun ammo?

Ivan
Ivan,

I can't be 100% certain that the cases are square to the case head, but I know that a problem that I observed has been eliminated.

I had observed that when the slide didn't go fully into battery, I was able to put the slide into battery, then I removed the cartridge. The case mouth overrode the chamber shoulder, creating a flat on the case. After trimming, this "flattening" has disappeared.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:06 PM
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With rifle cases I try to seat the case flush and straight in the collet and then trim
but even then I will notice that only 75% to 90% of the case end has been cut down with the trimmer.
Some times the case is shaved 100%, all the way around.

There is also inside and outside neck trimming on new brass
but this is a whole new can of worms..........
as well as deburing the inside and outside of the case neck.

I try NOT to remove brass from a case unless it is really needed.
Tight groups.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:25 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
I had observed that when the slide didn't go fully into battery, I was able to put the slide into battery, then I removed the cartridge. The case mouth overrode the chamber shoulder, creating a flat on the case. After trimming, this "flattening" has disappeared.


A couple of things to consider:
Q. Have you checked this in a different barrel or weapon?
Q. Do you have a short chamber?

Ivan
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:41 PM
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Somewhere in the distant past I recall reading that 45ACP cases tended to shrink rather than lengthen. I believe that the explanation was mostly oversized chambers in GI surplus guns; the bulges had to come from somewhere, I guess. I dunno, it wouldn't be the first time that I was wrong today (...as I'm frequently remined by SWMBO). -S2
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:17 PM
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Don't assume every pistol has the breech face and bore sngle st 90 degree angle.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:31 PM
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Been reloading since 1974, and never trimmed a straight wall. Probably never will.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:03 AM
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Actually, .45 ACP and similar cases shorten with repeated use because of peening of the case mouth against the end of the chamber, on which it headspaces. This occurs when the hammer hits the primer and pushes the case forward. This generally doesn't cause problems unless cases are reloaded a very large number of times. Try making serial measurements of some cases after shooting and resizing them.

I've been reloading a wide variety of straight wall pistol cartridges for 56 years and I've never trimmed a case or owned a trimmer.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:19 AM
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I have noticed pistol brass not being square too. Even on brand new brass.

I first noticed it when length checking brass & you're not centered well when you take your reading.

On one side of the case the caliper shows it's just over the max. length but on the other side of the case it's just under max.

For awhile I used to consistently check my auto pistol brass & then I got lazy & stopped.

After having some "failure to chamber fully" issues one day at the range with my 10mm 3rd Gen (which is usually 100% reliable) I found some of the brass was well over the max. length.

Recently before I primed some 40 S&W brass to reload I checked & found several that were over max. length also.

I don't know who's brass is getting shorter but they don't appear to be mine.

.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:38 AM
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I do not bother trimming brass for semi-automatic pistols as I have found it to be of negligible value. I will trim revolver brass and once trimmed, it seems to need no further trimming. Bottleneck cases are a whole different story. I've not reloaded any bottleneck pistol cartridges, but bottleneck rifle cases definitely stretch and need to be re-trimmed.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:17 AM
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45 acp generally shortens after multiple reloadings, as the brass is flowing towards the base where most dies are not resizing. This can be a problem in tightly chambered match chambers, but most don't notice it. Funny how the case returns to normal length after a full body resize.

Had trimmed one lot of 45 acp brass, but for my current purposes it is more trouble than it is worth to me. Currently sort the range pick ups by brand, and the rem brass is consistently the shortest.

When setting up a sizing die, am letting it float till a case is inserted and sized to top of ram upstroke, then lock it down.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:28 AM
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I've shot Bullseye Pistol for many years . I can tell you with new 45acp brass varies in length . Most of us pick out the longest ones & separate them for use @ 50yds . Supposedly helps with group size . To me it's like deburring / chamfering , only got to do it once . In almost 60 yrs I've never personally saw an overlength 45acp case .
For years at the Military matches when used brass was sold as scrap , we were able to exchange our old cases for once fired WCC or TZZ cases . Literally exchanged many 5 gal buckets of cases @ Ft. Benning matches . Now days if you ask a service team member for their fired cases 99% of the time they'll let you have them . I've had them give me boxes of new AA match ammo & Eley 10X 22 ammo .
The only straight walled cases I've ever trimmed were for my Model 52's . I'd trim them to min 1.145" as it allowed me to keep enough of the bullet nose proud of the case mouth , enough to help with feeding . As a result never had an alibi with them . Sold the last one 3yrs ago & I don't miss them .
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:13 PM
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I have been loading 45acp for more than 40y, mixed brass, some of it shot 20+ reloads, 6 diff 45s. I have never trimmed a case, they just dont stretch.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:40 PM
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The only “straight wall” cases I trim is the 30 carbine brass that I shoot in my old model Blackhawk. I trim it after each firing or I end up with a locked up cylinder.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:55 PM
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When I was shooting in competition I would trim 38 brass on the first loading, and never again. I have never trimmed 45 brass. I measure from time to time but never found any needing trimming.

Rifle brass is measured every loading and trimmed if needed. I usually only neck size rifle brass, but will full length size about every 5 loadings.
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