Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:36 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass

I don't want to shoot 38 brass in my 357 due to the powder ring in the cylinder and the fact that 357 brass is all I have. I do however want to shoot the loads given with the various powders/lead bullets for 38's to keep velocities down to the mid 800's or there about. Is there a conversion factor somewhere to compensate for the longer brass or is one even required?
Thanks.

Last edited by PapaWheelie; 01-20-2020 at 06:21 PM. Reason: misspelling
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:45 PM
growr growr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 5,162
Likes: 3,432
Liked 6,245 Times in 2,061 Posts
Default

Shooting .38 Spl in a .357 mag cylinder is no big deal. Some will have you believe the dreaded lead ring will make it impossible to use .357 casings ever again...

Clean the gun after shooting, I use a .40 brush.....no more ring around the collar..play on words there.

The only time I have seen it needed to do this is in SASS where some .357 rifles will only feed .357 brass. Oft times the .38 spl brass is simply too short for the lifter to reliably feed.

Randy

Last edited by growr; 01-18-2020 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:48 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,317
Likes: 5,374
Liked 2,708 Times in 1,239 Posts
Default

Well, Speer #10 shows 4.3gr of Bullseye behind a 158gr lead SWC or RN at 848 fps for 357 Mag. You ought to be able to find something that works for you.
__________________
Just Say No - To Social Media
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:52 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 4,198
Liked 998 Times in 536 Posts
Default

Just bump the charge weight that is shown in 38 special load data for the bullet you're using . Lets take 148 HBWC loads for instance , classic in 38 special is 2.7grs Bullseye . In a 357 case with a 148 HBWC use 2.9grs Bullseye . To get 800fps with a 148 HBWC in a 357 case use 3.3grs Bullseye with an OAL of 1.360" . Slower powders you'll have to figure out , but just bump powder charge .2 - .3grs to start with . Another classic load for 148 in 38 is 3.1grs W231 , in a 357 bump it to 3.4grs to start & adjust to desired velocity . Don't go crazy as with a HBWC you can blow the skirt off the bullet & if you shoot another behind it you'll bulge your barrel . Personally I'd use a 38 case , bump load .2 to .3 grs & seat bullet out of case neck to an OAL of 1.360". Can do the same with a 158 SWC or RN only use OAL of 1.455"with say 3.7 to 4.0grs W231 or 4.7 to 5.0grs of Accurate # 5 .
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:05 PM
SMSgt's Avatar
SMSgt SMSgt is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,555
Likes: 3,343
Liked 9,152 Times in 3,432 Posts
Default

Oh dear . . . the dreaded .38-caused carbon ring. I guess gun cleaning is too old school. I shot .38s for years in my Ruger BH .357, often 100s of rounds at a time, and not once was there ever a carbon-ring issue.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:10 PM
Collo Rosso's Avatar
Collo Rosso Collo Rosso is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 1,267
Liked 2,021 Times in 760 Posts
Default

If you go on Hodgdon's data site, pull up 38 spl and 357 mag with the same weight Hornady FTX bullet, same powder, and with the same powder charge, both measured from a 4" barrel, the 357 shows more fps even though it has greater case volume. The gun can mean as much as the cartridge.
boatbum101 does have a good general rule to follow. Unless your at max load, bumping up the powder charge .2 grains should compensate for the extra case volume.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:20 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbum101 View Post
Don't go crazy as with a HBWC you can blow the skirt off the bullet & if you shoot another behind it you'll bulge your barrel . Personally I'd use a 38 case , bump load .2 to .3 grs & seat bullet out of case neck to an OAL of 1.360". Can do the same with a 158 SWC or RN only use OAL of 1.455"with say 3.7 to 4.0grs W231 or 4.7 to 5.0grs of Accurate # 5 .
I'm pretty new at this - could you tell be what you mean when you said you can blow the skirt off? I have not reloaded HDWCs, yet but have been using the Acme 158 LSWC with the hi-tek coating.

I have a little OCD when it comes to cleaning stainless. Many years ago I shot 38 brass in a 686 and those rings in the cylinders used to drive me crazy. Right or wrong, it's too late to change me now. I have a lot of 357 brass and use coated bullets mainly to cut down on cleaning time. I do want to experiment with different powders and coated bullets though, and have done a lot of searching on the various powder web sites, and even bought a book. Most of the recipes that I want to try are written for the 38 case however.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:31 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 3,604
Liked 5,199 Times in 2,172 Posts
Default

'm pretty new at this - could you tell be what you mean when you said you can blow the skirt off?"

You get two holes in a target because the bullet comes out in two pieces. You HOPE it always comes out..and doesn't leave a skirt in the barrel!!
HBWC are for light loads of powders like bullseye and HP38. If you want to go faster use DEWC, NOT HBWC.

By the way I shoot tens thousands of .38 in a Model 66 in IDPA, and use a Hoppes Tornado brush to get the lead/carbon ring out of the cylinder in a couple of swipes. Easy and quick.
__________________
Science plus Art
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:37 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,552
Likes: 4
Liked 8,885 Times in 4,121 Posts
Default

Do some searching; there is data out there though some of it may have started out in paper manuals. If I chose to use .357 cases, I'd take .38 Special data and bump it up slightly with successive loads and shoot groups from a solid benchrest setup, chronographing at the same time. I'd go with what was most accurate for my gun.

I've never seen the carbon ring and I shoot only .38 Special in my .357 Magnum guns.

Last edited by rockquarry; 01-18-2020 at 06:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:15 PM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,474
Likes: 1,145
Liked 18,396 Times in 7,278 Posts
Default

I wouldn't even bother myself. Just use the mid-range 38 special recipe as is. The load will be a few fps slower than the same load in a 38 special case, but so what?

It isn't like low-end 38 specials are so slow and under powered that they are going to stick in the barrel or anything.

Think about it, the 38 long Colt using the same bullet is loaded to lower pressures and velocities than the 38 special and they still make it out the end of the barrel, right?

A few fps due to the 10% larger case volume just isn't going to make that big of a difference. Worst case scenario if they aren't fast enough for you, use the top end of the 38 special charge weight. A max 38 special load isn't going to be all that hot in a 357 case.
__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

Last edited by BC38; 01-18-2020 at 07:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:19 PM
4barrel's Avatar
4barrel 4barrel is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: OVER the hill in TEJAS
Posts: 2,725
Likes: 13,107
Liked 4,339 Times in 1,773 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaWheelie View Post
I'm pretty new at this - could you tell be what you mean when you said you can blow the skirt off? I have not reloaded HDWCs, yet but have been using the Acme 158 LSWC with the hi-tek coating.

I have a little OCD when it comes to cleaning stainless. Many years ago I shot 38 brass in a 686 and those rings in the cylinders used to drive me crazy. Right or wrong, it's too late to change me now. I have a lot of 357 brass and use coated bullets mainly to cut down on cleaning time. I do want to experiment with different powders and coated bullets though, and have done a lot of searching on the various powder web sites, and even bought a book. Most of the recipes that I want to try are written for the 38 case however.
Look down in the case. That is a skirt blown off. I was making a target load for my 19 using 3.2 of American Select at 25y. This happened several times. I couldn't make it do that with Bullseye powder. Here is the target and the far right hole is where the sliver of lead went and stuck in the board. The sliver in on the duct tape I was using to sight in. The lower hole in the group was that shot. I happened to have a spotter telling me the shots.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC00316 (2)REMINGTON 148.jpg (17.4 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00321 (2)REMINGTON 148.jpg (96.7 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00319 (2)REMINGTON 148.jpg (101.9 KB, 123 views)

Last edited by 4barrel; 01-18-2020 at 05:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:46 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4barrel View Post
Look down in the case. That is a skirt blown off. I was making a target load for my 19 using 3.2 of American Select at 25y. This happened several times. I couldn't make it do that with Bullseye powder. Here is the target and the far right hole is where the sliver of lead went and stuck in the board. The sliver in on the duct tape I was using to sight in. The lower hole in the group was that shot. I happened to have a spotter telling me the shots.
Wow, did not know that could happen. That would be a day wrecker if stuck in the bore without knowing.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:53 PM
Carrier Carrier is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 375
Likes: 87
Liked 210 Times in 112 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaWheelie View Post
I don't want to shoot 38 brass in my 357 due to the powder ring in the cylinder and the fact that 357 brass is all I have. I do however want to shoot the loads given with the various powders/lead bullets for 38's to keep velocities down to the mid 800's or there about. Is there a conversion factor somewhere to compensate for the longer brass or is one even required?
Thanks.
Just what bullets do you plan on reloading. I shoot 38 specials in my 357 guns and shoot 38 special loads in 357 cases all the time. Like has been said it’s not magic vodoo. Pick a bullet and load for 38 special and adjust powder charge slightly by a couple grains higher.
I have loaded lots of 38 special loads in 357 cases without adjusting the charge. However I normally do not start at the lowest load and usually start a few grains higer if using 357 cases.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:04 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
Oh dear . . . the dreaded .38-caused carbon ring. I guess gun cleaning is too old school. I shot .38s for years in my Ruger BH .357, often 100s of rounds at a time, and not once was there ever a carbon-ring issue.
My intent was not to start 38 vs 357 brass. It's really not that I don't want to clean my gun, it's because I must have them spotless after each session. When I shot with 38 brass I did get rings that were easy to see against the s/s. Tried many different brushes and cleaners to remove them too.
I just don't want to do it anymore. So far 357 brass and coated bullets make for easy cleanup for me and as a casual shooter it works.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:17 PM
Turn4811 Turn4811 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NE ATL
Posts: 252
Likes: 58
Liked 218 Times in 114 Posts
Default

I shoot 38 brass in my Model 65 all the time. Hoppes #9 and a nylon .40 brush with strands of copper from a Chore Boy pad in a cordless screwdriver makes cleaning up 150 rounds of residue a less than 5 minute chore.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:52 PM
Carrier Carrier is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 375
Likes: 87
Liked 210 Times in 112 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaWheelie View Post
My intent was not to start 38 vs 357 brass. It's really not that I don't want to clean my gun, it's because I must have them spotless after each session. When I shot with 38 brass I did get rings that were easy to see against the s/s. Tried many different brushes and cleaners to remove them too.
I just don't want to do it anymore. So far 357 brass and coated bullets make for easy cleanup for me and as a casual shooter it works.
Ha ha that reminds me of me. When I got my first stainless S&W I was so anal about not having a spot of anything on or in it. Used every chemical and mechanical items known to man to keep that baby like new.
Now with the ones that I shoot a lot with they get a quick but good cleaning of barrel and cylinder chambers/throats.
However the carbon rings on the end of the cylinder gets a quick brushing with a brass brush and Ballistol as I’ve learned to live with the ring and life is so much better.
But there is nothing wrong with what you want to do and I commend you for it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:07 PM
Univibe Univibe is offline
Banned
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: TX
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 10
Liked 2,151 Times in 854 Posts
Default

I load .38 power loads in .357 brass. Same for .44 mag brass. Works just fine.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:29 PM
Warren Sear's Avatar
Warren Sear Warren Sear is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 10,957
Liked 10,857 Times in 3,275 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrier View Post
Just what bullets do you plan on reloading. I shoot 38 specials in my 357 guns and shoot 38 special loads in 357 cases all the time. Like has been said it’s not magic vodoo. Pick a bullet and load for 38 special and adjust powder charge slightly by a couple grains higher.
I have loaded lots of 38 special loads in 357 cases without adjusting the charge. However I normally do not start at the lowest load and usually start a few grains higer if using 357 cases.
A "couple of grains"????

I hope you mean a couple tenths of a grain.

As was stated, just increase the .38 load by about 10% and you will have the very near equivalent load in a .357 case.

Don't use hollow base wad cutters. Ever. I suggest using 158 grain semi-wadcutter bullets.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:35 PM
Warren Sear's Avatar
Warren Sear Warren Sear is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 10,957
Liked 10,857 Times in 3,275 Posts
Default

PapaWheelie, I am convinced that guns are damaged more from cleaning than from shooting. Clean it, but forget about making it look "spotless". You can do it.

That said, I do understand the desire to use .357 brass in a .357 revolver.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:52 PM
Carrier Carrier is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 375
Likes: 87
Liked 210 Times in 112 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
A "couple of grains"????

I hope you mean a couple tenths of a grain.

As was stated, just increase the .38 load by about 10% and you will have the very near equivalent load in a .357 case.

Don't use hollow base wad cutters. Ever. I suggest using 158 grain semi-wadcutter bullets.
Yes I do mean tenths. Trying to post on this iPhone with my left hand while my right arm is in a sling is not working so well.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:54 PM
Warren Sear's Avatar
Warren Sear Warren Sear is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 10,957
Liked 10,857 Times in 3,275 Posts
Default

^^^^BTDT!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:54 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,233
Likes: 22
Liked 5,546 Times in 1,940 Posts
Default

If you shoot 38s in a 357 you get a ring. I get that. But if you shoot 357s in a ss revolver, don't you still get a ring, but its just further down?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #23  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:47 PM
Arub01 Arub01 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 43
Likes: 5
Liked 51 Times in 23 Posts
Default

If you are willing to try Alliant Green Dot I have some load data, including chronyed info, that I can send you. Will need an actual email address for attachment.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:45 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
A "couple of grains"????

I hope you mean a couple tenths of a grain.

As was stated, just increase the .38 load by about 10% and you will have the very near equivalent load in a .357 case.

Don't use hollow base wad cutters. Ever. I suggest using 158 grain semi-wadcutter bullets.
I caught that too, figured just a typo. I have been using 158 grain hi-tek coated SWC's and RNFP's -so far cleanup has been a breeze even when using Unique. After looking at those pictures I won't fool with hollow base anything. I agree with the comment that more harm is done to a firearm, handgun or long gun, by aggressive cleaning than most anything else.

Consensus seems to be to bump the 38 load by a couple 10ths to 10% or so and go from there. Seems logical and I'll start there. Thanks for all the responses, awesome forum.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:31 AM
zeke zeke is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NW Wi
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 3,313
Liked 3,020 Times in 1,279 Posts
Default

Might want to reconsider just using a faster/bulky powder. Red Dot, HP-38 and trail boss work very well in various magnum cases for slower velocity loads.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:54 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,707
Likes: 19,260
Liked 11,729 Times in 5,348 Posts
Default

I have loaded a lot of 357 Magnum brass to 38 Special ballistics. 38 Special load data is where you start, but due to the larger case capacity of the magnum brass, you will need to increase the load by 0.2 to 0.5 grains, depending upon the powder.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:35 AM
noshow noshow is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 157
Liked 228 Times in 113 Posts
Default Confused

Very interesting thread, but I have found some contradicting data from Hodgdon's online data manual. Most folks here seem to agree that a slight bump in powder weight using 357 brass is beneficial, however Hodgdon appears to claim the opposite! I used their calculator and selected 148gr HBWC & HP-38 for both calibers, their results:
38 SPECIAL
3.5-4.0 grains, 869-956 fps
357 MAGNUM
3.0-3.4 grains, 845-908 fps

Note the MAX load for 357 is BELOW the 38 STARTING load ??????????
Very confusing to say the least! I think I've lost my faith in Hodgdon's calculator. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:00 AM
The Norseman's Avatar
The Norseman The Norseman is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Black Hills South Dakota
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 9,011
Liked 2,968 Times in 1,124 Posts
Default 357Rem Mag 38Spl Velocities

Hello all S&W Reloading Enthusiasts.

My current go to reload for plinking with the
357Rem Mag reload:
38/357 .358dia. 148gr Lead DECW Double End
Wad Cutter.
3.0grs Alliant Red Dot, CCI SP #500 primer.
Brass is 357 Winchester, or R-P.

Crimp is what I call medium roll crimp.
FPS approximately 750?

Bullets are tumble lubed with Ben's Liquid Lube
for Lead Free barrel performance.
Primers no where near flat.

The thing about Red Dot is it has enough bulk,
that it is easy to visually see a double charge.
I'm a single stage, small batch reloader anyway.

Other powders I've used and like are; Bullseye,
Unique, American Select.

Be Safe, the Best to you and your Endeavors.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SW 686 357mag target.jpg (3.6 KB, 660 views)
File Type: jpg WIN_20180924_11_49_27_Pro.jpg (102.6 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0320.jpg (107.2 KB, 33 views)
__________________
SD social distanc'n since 1889
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-19-2020, 02:05 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 2,461
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,827 Times in 987 Posts
Default

Perhaps this topic could become a stickie? I have been using 38 Special data in 357 Magnum brass since about a year after I got my 357 Magnum in '87. I use data straight out of my manuals for loading 38 data in 357 brass, and no "formula". Just remember the listed data for 38 Special, velocities/pressure, in 357 brass will be higher than what is actually achieved. But on that same note; I have never had a bullet stuckm in my 4" 357's barrel, even wadcutters with 3.0 gr of Bullseye...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:57 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 3,604
Liked 5,199 Times in 2,172 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noshow View Post
Very interesting thread, but I have found some contradicting data from Hodgdon's online data manual. Most folks here seem to agree that a slight bump in powder weight using 357 brass is beneficial, however Hodgdon appears to claim the opposite! I used their calculator and selected 148gr HBWC & HP-38 for both calibers, their results:
38 SPECIAL
3.5-4.0 grains, 869-956 fps
357 MAGNUM
3.0-3.4 grains, 845-908 fps

Note the MAX load for 357 is BELOW the 38 STARTING load ??????????
Very confusing to say the least! I think I've lost my faith in Hodgdon's calculator. Any thoughts?
Simple: The limit is caused by the HBWC; it has nothing to do with the powder pressure. So it is NOT a usual MAX load due to pressure concerns. In my experience , even a MINIMUM load of Green Dot can blow the skirts off HBWC!!
Added: And the more air space you have under a HBWC, the more likely it will blow the bullet into two pieces, maybe even sticking the skirt. It has to do with forming a pressure wave, like leaving an air space above a black powder ball, which can bulge the barrel. Internal ballistics do not lend themselves to intuition, or "common sense" based on what we think we know, but most don't. Using a short cartridge and seating the HBWC right down on the powder is safer.
__________________
Science plus Art

Last edited by OKFC05; 01-21-2020 at 05:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:35 PM
noshow noshow is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 157
Liked 228 Times in 113 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Simple: The limit is caused by the HBWC; it has nothing to do with the powder pressure. So it is NOT a usual MAX load due to pressure concerns. In my experience , even a MINIMUM load of Green Dot can blow the skirts off HBWC!!
I'm not speaking about the low limit and understand the fragility of the HBWC. In both examples I cited the bullet was a HBWC. My point was that Hodgdon suggests a heavier charge of the SAME powder with the SAME bullet in 38SPL cases vs 357MAG cases! Go figure???????
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:57 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 5,346
Likes: 11,606
Liked 9,018 Times in 3,192 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noshow View Post
Very interesting thread, but I have found some contradicting data from Hodgdon's online data manual. Most folks here seem to agree that a slight bump in powder weight using 357 brass is beneficial, however Hodgdon appears to claim the opposite! I used their calculator and selected 148gr HBWC & HP-38 for both calibers, their results:
38 SPECIAL
3.5-4.0 grains, 869-956 fps
357 MAGNUM
3.0-3.4 grains, 845-908 fps

Note the MAX load for 357 is BELOW the 38 STARTING load ??????????
Very confusing to say the least! I think I've lost my faith in Hodgdon's calculator. Any thoughts?
Besides what OKFC05 posted above, I can give you a most probable mechanical issue limiting the 357 Mag data with that bullet. What I think you are seeing with this data is due to the test setup they are using for both calibers. They are most probably using a closed chamber test barrel for testing both 38 Special and 357 Mag and most probably using the same test barrel to measure both. Since 38 Special cases are only physically different from 357 Magnum in length only, a 38 Special round shot out of a barrel that can chamber both cartridges would treat the 38 Special rounds as a closed chamber gun that has a very long leade or freebore and helps lower chamber pressures and possibly give a little more velocity, since the skirt will swell out to help seal the smooth bore section before the rifling.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:09 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noshow View Post
Very interesting thread, but I have found some contradicting data from Hodgdon's online data manual. Most folks here seem to agree that a slight bump in powder weight using 357 brass is beneficial, however Hodgdon appears to claim the opposite! I used their calculator and selected 148gr HBWC & HP-38 for both calibers, their results:
38 SPECIAL
3.5-4.0 grains, 869-956 fps
357 MAGNUM
3.0-3.4 grains, 845-908 fps

Note the MAX load for 357 is BELOW the 38 STARTING load ??????????
Very confusing to say the least! I think I've lost my faith in Hodgdon's calculator. Any thoughts?
I've been looking at different powders to try and am considering a ball powder like Hodgdon/Winchester 231 to use next. It's a little faster than Unique and readily available in my area. I've read that ball powders meters well so it's worth a try. This is from the Hodgdon site;

38 Special - 158 gr. cast LSWC - 7.7" barrel
3.1 - 3.7 grains 782 - 834 fps 11,900 - 14,600 CUP

357 Magnum -158 gr. cast LSWC - 10" barrel
3.4 - 5.0 grains 796 - 1,109 fps 12,600 - 23,900 CUP

In this case I think this pretty much bears out what those above have been saying. Bumping up the 38 starting load a couple of tenths seems to produce similar results. Using a 10" barrel on the 357 must skew things a bit but can't think it's huge.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:23 AM
Luke Duke Luke Duke is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 484
Likes: 15
Liked 328 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Just clean your gun after shooting it, problem solved. I love the smell of Hoppes or Ballistol. My Old Model BlackHawk .357 loves cast 158gr .38 loads with Unique. Have a hard time switching to 357 brass when these shoot groups you can cover with a quarter ; at 25 yards.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:48 AM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 30,906
Likes: 41,494
Liked 29,147 Times in 13,778 Posts
Default You can use EXACTLY....

You can use exactly the same loads in .357 cases as you use in your .38 loads. That smidge of extra length isn't enough in old revolver cases (which began with Black Powder loads) to make any difference in volume a problem at all. It's only purpose is to prevent loading a .357 into a .38 special gun.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:52 AM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 4,198
Liked 998 Times in 536 Posts
Default

If you use a 38 special load in a 357 case ES & SD will be high & most of the time accuracy will suffer . Pressure will also be lower which will cause the above & it also affects powder burn . All powders have a pressure range that they burn efficiently . Above or below that your results will suffer . You can chose to use same powder & increase the charge in the larger case , chose a slower powder with appropriate charge or use the smaller case & seat your bullet out with an adjusted charge .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #37  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:05 PM
TIMETRIPPER TIMETRIPPER is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 1,525
Liked 1,822 Times in 735 Posts
Default

Using 357 brass, 4 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 gr lead SWC is accurate and easy shooting in my 4" 19-3.
If you have lots of 357 cases, use them. There's no real need for using 38 Special cases.

John
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:21 PM
Fishslayer Fishslayer is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, PRK
Posts: 9,238
Likes: 11,531
Liked 11,249 Times in 3,916 Posts
Default

Read somewhere it's like 10% but I generally just play around midrange til I find the accuracy I'm happy with. You are shooting SP level loads in a Magnum so high pressure isn't an issue. 4gr of Green Dot under a 158gr LSWC has been working for me.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:18 PM
LostintheOzone's Avatar
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
US Veteran
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WA.
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 4,490
Liked 4,461 Times in 2,182 Posts
Default

I'll add my 0.02 here. I load all of my 357 cases down to around 38 spl velocity. I don't mind shooting 38 cases in my 357 but I have so many 357 cases I just use those. Alliant has some load data for what they call "cowboy" loads that appear to be about 38 spl velocity or maybe a tad hotter but they work really well in 357 cases using 158 SWC bullets which is what I use.
Here's the link.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

I use Amarican Select but Unique would probably work just as well. I've never tried Unique so don't know. These are max loads. Start 10% below listed load and work up. AS is an exceptionally clean burning powder. I use it for 38 spl, 9x19, 357 mag lite and 45 ACP.

Good luck.
__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

Last edited by LostintheOzone; 01-21-2020 at 01:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:47 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMETRIPPER View Post
Using 357 brass, 4 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 gr lead SWC is accurate and easy shooting in my 4" 19-3.
If you have lots of 357 cases, use them. There's no real need for using 38 Special cases.

John

I asked the question originally because I bought 1500 once fired 357 brass from Capital Cartridge and have a total of two 38 brass that got mixed in in error.
Bullseye seems to be a very popular powder here, I will have to try it. Thanks
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #41  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:56 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 78
Likes: 102
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Duke View Post
Have a hard time switching to 357 brass when these shoot groups you can cover with a quarter ; at 25 yards.
A less than one inch group at 25 yards? Young man, you have obviously never seen me shoot. 3 out of 7 just in the black is a good day
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 01-21-2020, 06:36 PM
LostintheOzone's Avatar
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
US Veteran
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WA.
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 4,490
Liked 4,461 Times in 2,182 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaWheelie View Post
I asked the question originally because I bought 1500 once fired 357 brass from Capital Cartridge and have a total of two 38 brass that got mixed in in error.
Bullseye seems to be a very popular powder here, I will have to try it. Thanks
Bullseye meters better but is dirtier than American Select. I've tried Bullseye and went to AS. The burn rates, load data and MV are very similar. I would try them both and see which one you like the best.

Happy trails.
__________________
That's just somebody talkin.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:05 PM
Warren Sear's Avatar
Warren Sear Warren Sear is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 10,957
Liked 10,857 Times in 3,275 Posts
Default

A man just can't go wrong with Bullseye or Unique in a .38 or .357!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:30 PM
Luke Duke Luke Duke is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 484
Likes: 15
Liked 328 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaWheelie View Post
A less than one inch group at 25 yards? Young man, you have obviously never seen me shoot. 3 out of 7 just in the black is a good day
Forgot to mention that is with a well rested gun. not freehand. My shooting is more like yours freehand. But if the guns shoots good rested you cant blame It.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-22-2020, 01:52 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

Nothing wrong with just loading the long .357 cases for the weapon.

In my 686 6" a " .38 special load " in my weapon tested out at;

110 Jhp Red Dot 945fps to 1305fps with Unique powder.
135 Jhp Unique 860fps to 1035
158 Lwc Trail Boss 755fps to 1014 with Unique

Sorry, I do not shoot the 148gr out of my 357 Magnum revolvers, which are reserved for my J frames.

I do not hot rod the little 110 Jhp in my .357's and seldom use them even from the 1254
to over 1500fps that I did test out.

The 125 Jhp is the minimum weight that I think, works in this weapon from a full load of w231/CFE
fast powders to SR4756 and IMR2400 for loads from 1450 to 1500fps.

158 Lwc loads starting with Trail Boss around 790fps for target work
up to 1100 to 1200fps Unique powder loads for longer range work to
full loads around 1320 for hunting but these may start leading the barrel.

The 158 XTP bullet with IMR2400 can get up to 1340fps as a second choice for a hunting load.

For general plinking loads with a Jacket coating you might try down loading the Hornady 140 gr bullet.
They shoot great in my revolvers and the price is right.

Ps;
with a .357 case you are actually shooting a "Reduced" 357 load, not a .38 special load.
Carry on.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 01-29-2020 at 02:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #46  
Old 01-22-2020, 03:59 PM
Bronco89 Bronco89 is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: TN Hills
Posts: 299
Likes: 444
Liked 608 Times in 159 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by growr View Post
Shooting .38 Spl in a .357 mag cylinder is no big deal. Some will have you believe the dreaded lead ring will make it impossible to use .357 casings ever again.......Clean the gun after shooting, I use a .40 brush.....no more ring around the collar..play on words there........Randy
I second Randy completely. I shoot almost all lead. in 38spc/44spcl. Occasionally, I'll load up some magnums. Even then I usually shoot lead. In 357 mag cases however, Hodgdon has loads published that are 38 spcl pressure in Universal and 38+P pressure in Tightgroup loads. I haven't tried the Tightgroup yet, but the Universal is a standard load of mine.
__________________
Hillbilly
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-28-2020, 03:50 PM
nbedford nbedford is offline
Member
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Arkansas Delta
Posts: 414
Likes: 778
Liked 482 Times in 196 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer View Post
Read somewhere it's like 10% but I generally just play around midrange til I find the accuracy I'm happy with. You are shooting SP level loads in a Magnum so high pressure isn't an issue. 4gr of Green Dot under a 158gr LSWC has been working for me.
I use 3.1 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain WC for my target 38 Special loads. If I was loading for 357 I'd do a tad less than a 10% increase in powder weight with Bullseye = 3.4 grains. Might start at 3.3 grains of Bullseye.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HBWC loads for 357 brass noshow Reloading 15 04-14-2021 11:03 PM
38 loads in 357 brass? DennisE Reloading 29 09-05-2017 12:41 AM
.38 loads in .357 brass? chaparrito Reloading 48 04-29-2015 06:29 PM
.38 Special loads in .357 brass? 617fan Reloading 25 10-03-2009 04:28 PM
HBWC loads in .357 brass AZ Mark Reloading 7 06-14-2009 08:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)