What level of concern should I have about my expander die and/or crimp die swaging lead bullets down while relaoding handgun rounds? A little background research suggests a separate crimp die can help this? Some say Lee's FCD can still compress soft lead projectiles. Is there preferred expander and crimp die brand that work best? Does it even matter if I'm running standard sized lead bullets in all my auto's and revolvers?

The Lee FCD is the only die I'm aware of that will swage your bullets when crimping.
I suppose if your brass is thick and hard, and your expander is too small, and your bullets are soft, they could be reduced in diameter when seating, but otherwise your expander won't swage bullets.

Separate seating and crimping dies won't affect whether or not your bullets get swaged.

I stopped using FCD dies, don't need the training wheels.

The Lee FCD dies have a carbide ring for post crimping sizing. It is believed to be for insurance that all rounds will chamber as the ring sizes the round to "standard". I tried an FCD and found it ruined my cast bullet loads. I knocked out the sizing ring and the rounds were no longer undersize, but I wasn't impressed with the crimp. I have been reloading semi-auto rounds since '88-'89 and have never needed to post crimp resize any ammo (380 Auto, 9mm, 45 ACP). I separate seating and crimping because early on in my reloading I had more control over both steps and today I have some preferred crimping dies other than stock crimps. I like Redding Profile Crimp ans Lee Collet Crimp, and a couple "stock" taper crimp dies, RCBS and Hornady, so separating steps is a good "habit" for me...

I have used separate crimping dies only for taper crimp for many years, and just the factory seating crimping for roll crimp. I do not find any of them swagging down lead bullets. I do not use any Lee dies.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I would worry more about if................

the soft lead bullet was being reduced down as it left the Revolvers Cylinder.........

not when loaded.

If your rounds don't chamber or your crimp is so stout that the bullet is being deformed you need to adjust your regular dies.
I can't see a need for the factory crimp die in handguns. I don't think the diameter of the bullets matter in the crimping operation as long as they chamber.
I have a Kahr 40 S&W that needed .400" diameter bullets and a S&W that needs .401". I bought two bullet sizing dies and treat them as separate calibers.

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Front sight and squeeze

I've used the Lee FCD dies for years and there are some misunderstanding by many about how they function.

First, with the Handgun calibers it's JUST ANOTHER TAPER CRIMP DIE. Functionality identical to a RCBS taper crimp die. Which in theory could swage a bullet down if manufactured improperly but I have yet to see even one example of a taper crimp die made badly enough to do this. Set you crimp die up properly and undersized bullets won't be a problem. Set one up incorrectly and you still won't swage the bullets but you could fracture the jacketing and have problems with leading in your barrel.

Concerning the Lee Factory Crimp Die for Rifle calibers, these are true collet closure crimp diee and if it actually covered the full length of the bullet engagement in the case it could possibly swage a bullet to a smaller diameter. However the Lee FCD Rifle crimp dies are designed to only apply pressure in a rather narrow band about 2.5mm (0.10 inch) wide. End result is a depressed ring in the bullet that IMO won't effect accuracy. BTW, I have a Shilen barreled rifle that I've shot to 0.28 inch at 100 yards using Lee FCD crimp hand loads so I do have a bit of experience with accurate ammunition.

Well, no.
No other crimp die has a sizing ring in it.
Other crimp dies are designed to touch nothing but the case mouth.
The FCD is designed to resize a completed round if it is out of spec.
If your rounds are out of spec, you need to find out why and correct the problem, not mask the problem by crushing them down to size.
Training wheels.

In the minds of many who shoot boolits the Lee FCD is a solution in search of a non existant problem . Many oversize cases etc. If you shoot lead Lyman or Cowboy Die Sets if ( like all the rest ) if setup correctly will load good ammo , but user has to do his part . I shoot a bunch of lead have a 1050 just for my 45acp & other progressives with their dies .

I use the Lee FCD but not to resize my bullets. I use it to get the crimp that I want.

Thank you for all the info on crimp dies. Anybody have problems/suggestions with expanders that don't adequately open up the case to accept lead bullets?

Expanders have a taper, set the die so the expander enters deeper into the case, the flare on the case mouth inside diameter will be slightly larger than the outside diameter of the bullet.

In the perfect world, all brass is the same length. You want the bullet to set inside the case 0.010" to 0.020" after the case is flared. You do not want the bullet to balance on top of the case mouth, but inside the case mouth.

In the real world brass varies 0.010" to 0.030" in overall length if it has never been trimmed by you. Not everyone loads only Starline or Lapua ultra precision brass.

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S&WHF 366

I use the Lee FCD .44 Mag dies to lightly size cases that will utilize swaged bullets. Makes for a nice snug fit that doesn't squeeze the 0.430-0.431" projectiles undersize. But it's one of the first steps in my reloading sequence, not the last. Seating and crimping duties are done with the usual non-Lee dies.

I do like the collet FCDs for cast lead 7mm TCU and 25-20 home brewed ammo.

The problem with the Lee FCD is not the crimp it applies, but the carbide sizing ring. I don't think RCBS or any other die manufacturer makes a post crimping sizing die. The ring will swage down the diameter of any cartridge it thinks is too fat...

Your handloads are the correct diameter prior to crimping. If you reload any cases with "thicker" walls and/or oversize case bullets that little ring in the mouth of your FCD for handguns will reduce the diameter of the cartridge...

The RCBS line of 'cowboy' dies uses larger than average expanders designed primarily for lead bullet revolver shooters.
I think they also offer custom sized expander stems that fit their regular dies.
What caliber/gun are you shooting?

Definite on RCBS offering different expander stems. Their CS is excellent to work with. Some expander dies may only bell the top of the case. That makes it easy to start a bullet.

If different stem sizes don't correct the swaging problem, there is always "M" dies. M dies make a "nest" for the bullet. You need different size stems, even in the same caliber, to make different size nests. I've been able to hand push some bullets down into that nest with finger pressure; that's a little too light for me. The great part is that the bullet does not get swaged down from being seated into too tight of a case. Profile crimp can help re-apply the tight fit of case to the body of the bullet if needed.

If you load for lots of guns, you will have lots of groove diameters on barrels which need different size bullets. I pin gauge my cylinders and slug my barrels to find exact diameter numbers to use for buying bullets. After doing all that, I'll be darned if I want to see them resized/swaged during seating or crimping. If in doubt, pull the bullet and measure it on a couple of finished rounds.

I liked the comment about correcting earlier mistakes in your handloading rather than later trying to correct them with other dies. "If your rounds are out of spec, you need to find out why and correct the problem, not mask the problem by crushing them down to size."
I didn't care for the training wheels comment, however. Not all of us are born fully grown.


Prescut

At this time I don't load cast bullets and the dies serve me well. If I start loading cast rifle bullets I will then either remove the ring or not use them if they cause any problem.

45 LC, 45 ACP, and .357. I check out "cowboy" dies and see whats available.

I use m-dies or home made expanders for all my pistol/revolver reloads when using my home cast bullets. I use a expander made for a 303 (.310") when using cast bullets in a 308w or 30-06.

I cast and crimp in the same stage with reloading revolver calibers with bullets that take a roll crimp. I always taper crimp in a separate stage no matter what caliber I'm reloading.

Myself, I don't use a lee fdc die and give them away to people that will use them whenever I end up with 1.

Lee came out with a new collet crimp die for pistol/revolvers calibers that I'm excited about. I need to buy 1 for the 357mag and do head to head testing with roll vs taper vs collet crimps.

The Lee FCD may or may not resize your bullets. You have to pull some bullets that have been through the die to know.
My .45 ACP FCD was resizing bullets. I should have knocked the sizing ring out but just bought another die.

If you reload mixed brass it's enough to really cause problems.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I just made a lengthy thread about this. Now, this is my finding with 44 magnum brass, but I'm guessing it would apply to anything similar in a Lee FCD.

Loading .430 lead projectiles in thicker walled brass, the Lee will smash them down to .429-.428". By "thicker" I mean some of my brass has a thickness of .010", and others .011".

.011" thickness brass and a .430" projectile, the Lee die will 100% take the bullet down to at least .429" and in my Ruger SR, that means leading.

It is super easy to tell when this is happening as it takes considerably more force to run the round in the die than if it is a smaller size.

This is why Lee's precision is mediocre at best. Thankfully my 44 FCD won't bother a .430" bullet with the thickest brass I have, however my 45 FCD was a different story. I had to enlarge the sizing ring by .0015" to use a .452" bullet.

Funnily enough, I've used Lee's lack of dimensional uniformity to my advantage on multiple occasions. Their .44 and .45 FCD dies vary several thousandths on the sizing portion, which has been quite handy when sizing cases to a desired size without over working the brass. It's been very useful in the quest for long range accuracy (100yds to 200m) using swaged and cast bullets.

I can see that as a definite advantage but as Forrest said. "you never know what you're going to get". You can always buy a few from Amazon, pick which one suits your need and send the other back.

The another issue I've seen with Lee dies is sizing rings that are not concentric to the die body. There's an acceptable variance as long as the anvil has enough play to center itself on the round but the worst I've seen was a .035" difference. Talk about an ugly crimp.

The one or two that get used for their intended purpose (straight walled cases) do a fine job crimping! I reckon most of them are currently without the crimping feature inside.

I've seen non-concentric conventional crimp dies as well. RCBS, older Hornady, etc. And all sorts of variation in internal dimensions. Some simply wouldn't take a .44 case set up for 0.433" bullets at all. Others (including a Dillon, which is dedicated to seating "big bullets" for .44 Spl. S&Ws) will barely crimp a standard 0.429-0.430" load.

The collet crimpers have also been quite good, a couple did need deburring, though. Cheap enough to not be a complaint.