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Old 01-27-2020, 10:09 PM
Dude_Etc Dude_Etc is offline
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Default 44 Longshot ?

30+ years ago I picked up 1/2 box of handloaded rounds labeled 44 Longshot. Was told they weren't snake loads, they were for taking birds.
Never needed them, never tried them as I am aware my 29-3 S&W isn't as robust as a super blackhawk or tc contender.
Just tried chambering them tonight for grins and found they were too long to rotate into battery with the barrel. Made me wonder if these things were crafted for single shots or rifles.
OAL on "my" handloaded 250 gn swc .44 mag is 1.7".
The Longshot measures 1.78", and seems to have been crafted from a .303 british case(only 1 had a headstamp marking legible).
I can run these through my case trimmer to spec., but I'm a bit leery at this point.
Any info would be appreciated.

http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/44longshotcased.jpg

http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/44l...250grnswcc.jpg

http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/44l...303headsta.jpg
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:54 PM
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Welcome to the Forum

Just trying to make it easier for folks to follow this thread







I fixed the other two URLs that do not work
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:01 PM
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Personally, I disassemble or toss any hand loads that did not come from me or my circle of known hand loaders

A few cheap or free rounds are not worth the cost of a damaged firearm

Not shooting them is the correct thing
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:37 PM
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Thank you colt_saa for the welcome, img fix, and sound advice.
I theoretically picked these up from a commercial source who told me he received them from a customer, and told me he couldn't sell them as he couldn't guarantee them. I told him he shouldn't have to (along the lines of loading ammo for your friends), he said 20 bucks...
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:31 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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I make a very similar shaped round for 45 Colt. The "neck area" is reduced to fit into where the projectile resides in the chamber. I would assume your shot cases fit in one of the Contender barrels. Mine are 1.51" and my Ruger cylinders are 1.58". They also could fit a rifle, such as a 1894 Marlin or 92 & 94 Winchesters. The contender is the strongest of these actions but all three of the lever actions are strong enough to handle SBH level loads. The case size tells me that you shot payload will be around 1/2 ounce (like a 2.5" 410 shell)

Be advised: The pattern for these shotshells will be pretty broad from being fired in any rifled barrel. The Contender barrels with the removable "Choke" were for shotshells using plastic capsules (CCI or T/C Hot Shot)

I suggest standing with the muzzle 10" from a 4'x4' piece of cardboard (like a stove or dryer box) and firing one round to see what size the pattern is. Since there is no choke, the pattern size will be determined by the velocity. At this (10') distance, my loads produce an even 10" pattern at 750 fps with #7.5 shot. Faster velocities will open the pattern up as will increasing the distance! My experience with 410 handguns tells me that at 25 feet 1/2 ounce shells of #9 shot @ 1200 fps will have a 4 foot plus pattern and the same in #4 shot will be around 3 foot. 000 buckshot group 3 balls in 6" at this range.

Should you shoot and want to reload these cases, most likely they won't need a full length sizing and the "Neck" area would use a 38-40 WCF sizing die. (My 45 shotshells use a 44-40 WCF die). For a powder charge, let 410 reloading be a guideline or for lower velocities, use the powder charge for "Cowboy" loads with a 220 grain bullet (that is 1/2 ounce!) I use 7.5 grains of WW231 in my version for 750 fps.

The case mouth looks to have a gas check crimped in place. I prefer using a cardboard card glued in place, with "Gutter Seam Sealer" (from the roofing department at Lowe's or Home Depot. Allow 3 weeks to dry, to avoid a mess stuck to your rifling!)

I would think, out of a lever action rifle and at the lower velocities (750 fps) these shell would be great for barn pests (pidgins and rats) but stick to #8 or #9 shot indoors, #7.5 or larger should remine for outdoor use only!

I hope this helps.

Ivan

Last edited by Ivan the Butcher; 01-28-2020 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:36 AM
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Thank you Ivan the Butcher for sharing the detailed and personal loading/shooting experience you have with this type of shell. Much appreciated.

I just took 1 apart and found 185gn of shot, most averaging about 2mm, and 10 that went 2.5-3mm contained by a plastic wad.
The powder charge was 8.7gn highly compressed and pretty much solidified after all the years- loosening the grains from the case for weighing was irksome.

http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/44L...components.jpg

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed - I had expect much larger shot size as he had touted it as a bird load. Fewer pellets no doubt but better penetration.This seems a close range snake load.
Ah well, at least the brass is interesting, though I'm wondering how well a revolver will snap the large rifle primer in the 303 british case. Might have to trim it to spec and find out

Thanks again for your help.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:50 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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With the wadding in there, you lost a great percentage of available space for shot! You do need an over the powder card and thin (.030) cardboard works fine, plastic milk jug works too. Making the case length to fit in a revolver will put in the 3/8 ounce shot charge size, that's why I liked the extra long cases, for lever actions or Contenders.

When I lived in our farm house, round experimenting and development was much easier! Just load one or two and step outside to test fire, In our condo, it's a 15 or 20 minute drive each way to the gun club for testing! Retired life is so taxing!

Ivan
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:15 AM
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BTW: your primers should work fine, if they are still good. While I prefer Winchester Large Pistol, Rifle will be fine. Mag Rifle may push the powder up the barrel without ignition (NOT A GOOD THING!)

You current "unknown" powder charge should be safe in anything chambered for 44 mag. Case life won't exist ,but you could shoot them in in 444 Marlin also ( originally that case was developed from 303 British too.)

Back in the 1880 there was a cartridge called "44 Evens Extra Long", it was a 44-40 shot shell (something very similar to yours) then left full length and loaded with a 200 grain LRN bullet. Very early wildcatting! In worked in the Evens lever action rifle, but not in the 1873 Winchester. So it is lost to history.

Annie Oakley used shot shells to break the glass balls in the Wild West show when indoors or in the tent (outside she used something like a reduced velocity rifle load) I'm still thinking about your shells as Rat Medicine.

Ivan

Last edited by Ivan the Butcher; 01-28-2020 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
Welcome to the Forum

Just trying to make it easier for folks to follow this thread







I fixed the other two URLs that do not work
You have some nicely assembled snake loads made for a Ruger.
I would give them to someone with a Ruger first. If you do break them down, save the brass and pay attention to how the gas-check was crimped over shot. It is very hard to find brass to work with nowadays.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:04 PM
Dude_Etc Dude_Etc is offline
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Thanks again for the info, extremely helpful. I had the Marlin case in the back of my mind, nice to know they could be used to craft these or similar. I appreciate the tip on the primers too.
Wildcatting is probably in the blood as who doesn't want better or more specific ammo. I myself had always wanted a Corbin bullet swage for custom designs.
Didn't know the Ruger had a longer cylinder length than a S&W.
Even so, it occured to me that if I trim the cases flush to the cylinder - upon firing the case forming will be lost at the nose and the case stretch will lock the cylinder shut. Should probably straighten the walls of the round I dissected and measure.

Last edited by Dude_Etc; 01-28-2020 at 04:05 PM.
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