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Old 02-07-2020, 06:49 PM
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Default CCI Small Pistol Primers the absolute worse! Help

Hey Guys

I don't know if I am the only one to experience this, but using whatever brass I find on the range floor to reload, I am getting lots of light primer strikes regardless which gun I try to shoot them from. I hear CCI are very hard comparied to Federal or Winchester but anyone here have bad experience with CCI primers?
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:55 PM
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I use CCI primers with no issue in my stock M&P Pros, 9mm.
BE SURE you have the primers fully seated, because high primers are often seated by the first strike, and fire the second strike.
However , my IDPA Model 66s have light springs, and only are fully reliable with Federal primers.
1. Check for high primers
2. Check you guns for light springs
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:58 PM
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The only time I have ever had a light primer strike is when I didn't do something else right with my reload. If you have custom hammer springs, that could be a source of your problem as well.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:33 PM
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Used CCI primers for 40 years. Never an issue.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:44 PM
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often light hits are caused from not seating the primers ALL THE WAY IN. I bet you could get a half a turn up on your primer seater
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:45 PM
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You could have a bad batch, but they've been my go to primers for years with zero problems.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:46 PM
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I have not had problems with CCI primers. Make sure they are fully seated and some trigger jobs result in significantly less hammer or striker energy. Such a thing can make it difficult to ignite CCI primers.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:05 PM
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Some tools used to seat primers won't fully seat every time, due to wear or because it's not a good priming tool. Run your finger over every seated primer as a check. CCI small pistol and other CCI primers work fine in guns that are in good condition and have not been tampered with. I buy the small pistol primers in cartons of 5,000. I've used more CCI for all cartridges, rifle and handgun, than other primers, but I suppose I've used most of the others, too. I started buying CCI in 1965.

Range pickup brass will often work fine, but it will never work better than same headstamp or same lot brass that you know the history of and primer pocket depth may not be uniform with the pickup brass.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
Some tools used to seat primers won't fully seat every time, due to wear or because it's not a good priming tool. Run your finger over every seated primer as a check. CCI small pistol and other CCI primers work fine in guns that are in good condition and have not been tampered with. I buy the small pistol primers in cartons of 5,000. I've used more CCI for all cartridges, rifle and handgun, than other primers, but I suppose I've used most of the others, too. I started buying CCI in 1965.

Range pickup brass will often work fine, but it will never work better than same headstamp or same lot brass that you know the history of and primer pocket depth may not be uniform with the pickup brass.
Using the same load and whatever brass I find on range floor never had a problem until I bought my first box of CCI. All my guns are new. My X5 legion does have a competition Grayguns sear, reduced sear spring and pelt2 trigger. My MP 2.0 in both compact and 5" barrel model are bone stock and I get light strikes every three to four shots fired.

I then ran factory ammo from 115gr to 157HST and not one light primer strike not one.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:13 PM
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I run cci in everything, revolvers, striker fired guns, 1911, never an issue. I use range brass exclusively in service calibers, never an issue, but I do cull certain foreign brands.
What press are you using? Do they fire on 2nd strike? IF so, you just need to push harder & fully seat them. They are not really that hard. More so than Win or Fed but not like S&B.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:16 PM
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CCI primers are harder than the others in my experience, but I have no problems with them lighting off in any of my pistols either. I don't shoot competition and I won't let any of my guns be picky on the primers they will light off. Like the others, I think you might not be seating them fully for some reason or another. I've literally shot 10's of thousands of CCI primers with no problems.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I run cci in everything, revolvers, striker fired guns, 1911, never an issue. I use range brass exclusively in service calibers, never an issue, but I do cull certain foreign brands.
What press are you using? Do they fire on 2nd strike? IF so, you just need to push harder & fully seat them. They are not really that hard. More so than Win or Fed but not like S&B.
I am using lyman's hand primer tool and it very well may be I am not pressing hard enough and why they are not fully seated however they are sitting just below the pocket surface so I would think they are seated I will press harder and try again
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
I am using lyman's hand primer tool and it very well may be I am not pressing hard enough and why they are not fully seated however they are sitting just below the pocket surface so I would think they are seated I will press harder and try again
If they are level you are good to go. Look at the ones that misfire and check the brand of the case. Stay away from military brass as they have crimped primers. Federal seems to seat a little easier.

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Old 02-07-2020, 09:41 PM
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I will note that I have used CCI primers for years when hand seating primers in pistol and rifle rounds. I usually use Winchester primers in my pistol rounds loaded on my Dillon 550. Went to load a batch of 9mm on the 550, went to get primers from my stock and I didn't have enough to do the batch I wanted to load. I grabbed a box of CCI primers and went to work. (Note: not a max load or even close and I have previously been able to use CCI/Winchester primers interchangeably with this load.) Started having all kinds of issues with primers not seating completely. Some of these cases have been loaded enough times that it is difficult to read the headstamps. Some of the offending cases were military cases but they showed evidence of primer pockets already having been swaged and reloaded previously. Finally in frustration, called an older more experienced friend and described my problem and the switch from Winchester to CCI primers. He just chuckled and claimed he had run into the same issue years before and he had called Dillon. The tech he spoke with told him that the dimensions of CCI primers can vary quite a bit and can be tighter in some primer pockets and require greater than normal force to fully seat in the pocket. As a result they didn't recommend using CCI primers in their machines.
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:53 PM
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I've had issues with CCI light primer strikes with one of my revolvers. Did a fair amount of testing and measuring. At the recommendation of the folks at Starline I swithed to Remington. Problem totally gone.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:07 PM
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I have three revolvers that don't like CCI primers, and a dozen revolvers and pistols that don't care.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:41 PM
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My stable is basically full of revolvers and that's quite a few and just a couple of semi auto's . I have NO problems with any of them using CCI primers . The only primers I have ever had problems with were primers bought during the component shortage from Russia , Tula brand and that was only occasionally . Regards, Paul
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:52 PM
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Ive used both with never an issue. Check and make sure they're being seated fully
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:01 AM
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I've never had an issue with CCI primers, or Winchester or Remington. I've never used Federal. Just make sure they are seated completely.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:05 AM
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You might try Remington 1 1/2 SP primers. They will fire when others won't given a weak hammer spring. They were a favorite back when I was on the PD shooting team firing in the PPC course of fire. I still use them in 32 S&W loads and light 38 Special loads.

On the other hand, I've also used CCI primers in my field loads for something like 50 years without an issue.

Just as an after thought, if you are using S&W handguns you might check the strain screws to ensure that you are getting full powder from your hammer spring.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
I am using lyman's hand primer tool and it very well may be I am not pressing hard enough and why they are not fully seated however they are sitting just below the pocket surface so I would think they are seated I will press harder and try again
Primers have to seat to the bottom of the pocket, not flush. With mixed brass, that can be the problem. Push harder, they wont go off.
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Old 02-08-2020, 03:18 AM
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Never had a problem with CCI small pistol primers.
Only primers I had trouble with lately is Winchester small pistol primers, 8 out 1,000 dead primers.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Primers have to seat to the bottom of the pocket, not flush. With mixed brass, that can be the problem. Push harder, they wont go off.
This time I switched back to winchester but made 20 rounds using CCI primers, but after seating them, I went back a second time to give them another push upwards with my hand priming tool.

On a side note, I just worked out how much I can buy factory ammo at 1000 rounds vs reloading and I save $20 to $40 per 1000 rounds! Yikes definitely not worth reloading..lol
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:30 AM
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I have one revolver that does not like CCI primers at all, I must use federal. Haven't had a problem shooting federal primers in that particular revolver at all.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:37 AM
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I recently installed a "D" spring in my Beretta M9. In comparing CCI primers to Federal primers, I did notice a larger indent in the fired Federal primers than those in the CCI primers. However, all the CCI primers ignited without incident.

I bought a box of Federal ammo in the event I use this gun for home/self defense. I'm not taking chances.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
I am using lyman's hand primer tool and it very well may be I am not pressing hard enough and why they are not fully seated however they are sitting just below the pocket surface so I would think they are seated I will press harder and try again
Good idea. Better yet, prime 50 or a hundred on the press to be sure they're uniform and eliminate that variable.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:22 AM
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CCI are harder than Federal primers, but yield 100% reliability for all 9mm loads. Loading for revolver's a different story. For ANY of my revolvers, I ONLY use Federal primers as they're softer and ignite first strike. I went away from CCI because of this, only use Federal primers these days.
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
Hey Guys

I don't know if I am the only one to experience this, but using whatever brass I find on the range floor to reload, I am getting lots of light primer strikes regardless which gun I try to shoot them from. I hear CCI are very hard comparied to Federal or Winchester but anyone here have bad experience with CCI primers?
Been using CCI for 40+ yrs... Never a problem. Try a different supply ,if still same problem have your weapon checked for another problem...
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:35 AM
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thousands used over 5 decades + never one problem - light strikes probably a firearm problem + not primer related -
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:00 AM
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I have never had a problem with CCI primers or any other brand, CCI is my first choice when I buy primers, but if my dealer is out of them, I will use a different brand. I agree with previous posters, there is another issue besides the primers themselves.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:37 PM
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I purchased my first primers in 1969; CCI small pistol. I have been reloading off and on since then and the only problems I've encountered were my fault (IIRC, I found one primer without an anvil). I have used CCI small primers in 380 auto, 9mm, 38 Special, 357 Magnum, and 45 ACP in 11 different guns. I have even used CCI small pistol primers in some experimental .223 loads...
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:43 PM
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I've had light strikes that didn't go off, but it wasn't the primers. It was the gun.

It's always possible there was a bad batch of anything made. I have been handloading for years and using CCI with great success. I chose CCI because I shoot hotter loads on occasion and had seen softer primers flow back. I even starting using small RIFLE primers for my 357 Maximum because they were even harder. So harder is neither bad nor good.

This year I was using a .32 revolver with a light trigger and a light strike and getting failure to fire every 2nd round, using harder CCI. Even a second strike or third would not ignite them. It was definitely the revolver that was right on the edge of too light of a hammer fall. I switched to a soft Federal primer and was able to get consistent ignition without tuning up the revolver.
I don't like building custom ammo for one gun, so that revolver will get worked over eventually.

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Old 02-08-2020, 01:21 PM
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Not really off topic as it has to do with hand priming tools that many of us use...

I used the original Lee round primer tray models for many years. These were what I refer to as the "dangerous" versions, but they were worked better than the later "safe" models and the clear plastic covers weren't prone to breakage like the later square-tray versions. The potential danger of the original round tray models was well-documented by Lee's testing and written up and published both by Lee and in at least one real paper gun publication; long before the Internet so there were no self-anointed sedentary experts involved.

I'm sure many of us that used the "dangerous" models found that after years of use, parts would wear (due to us owners neglecting to lubricate tool parts) and primers would no longer fully seat reliably all of the time.

I finally threw away my round tray Lee's as they were too worn to use. I tried the square tray models which were largely junk and quickly threw them away, too.

I tried two of the RCBS Universals; neither would seat primers with 100% reliability. I returned them. The other RCBS model that used shellholders was a much better tool even if it was more trouble to switch things over.

There are other handheld priming tools out there that have primer magazines; whether or not they also have shortcomings or work perfectly, I don't know, but it's important to make sure you're getting fully seated primers with whatever hand priming tool you use.

For the last couple of years or so, I've used a 21st Century priming tool. Like the Sinclair in that it's expensive and one primer at a time (no magazine but not nearly as slow as some think), it will seat primers properly all the time without attendant problems.

Last edited by rockquarry; 02-08-2020 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:32 PM
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Seat those primers until they hit the bottom of the pocket .
Ease up on the lever and spin the case 1/2 turn in the shell holder and press the primer in again to make sure it's fully seated and not cock-eyed .
This cured all my "light strikes" and "hard primers"...try it .

Little hand primers don't develop a lot of power like a press so you have to pay attention to how deep the primers are goin in.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:23 PM
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IMO that bit about CCI primers being "hard" is an internet myth. I will grant that the CCI Magnum primers are a touch harder than the Standard primers but it's almost a splitting a hair difference.

How can I be so certain of this, plain old experience. Now, this is a bit of a winding path so pay attention, those who post replies clearly showing ignorance of this winding path will get a yardstick busted across the back of their hand. Something that should still be used to motivate students paying attention. Yeah, it stings but only for a moment.

I clean my fired casing using stainless steel pins and the pins I use require flash holes that are 0.82 inch in diameter to insure that two pins won't jam in the flash hole. There is one single brand of commercial ammunition that I have found that universally have flash holes sized to 0.082 inch diameter. That brand is Remington UMC. So, any time I need to refresh my brass I pick up some bulk packs of Remington UMC and shoot them for nice fresh brass.

So I have shot a lot of Remington UMC in 38 special, 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I also have S&W revolvers in all of these calibers and I like to tune my revolvers to a consistent trigger weight. Back when I cleaned my brass in walnut shell media I could tune my revolvers to a consistent 8 lbs. DA trigger weight. Note, I have ALWAYS loaded with CCI Primers and did discover that a 7 lbs 14 ounce trigger pull on my 620 was occasionally unreliable with CCI 550 primers. Retuning to 8.000 lbs. solved that problem. After I found that REmington was thoughtfull enough to size their flash holes I found that 8.0 lbs was just too light, had lots of issues with misfires. Actually had to shoot Single Action with my 625 to use up the UMC I had with me. Experimentation led me to find that a 9.0 lbs DA trigger weight was what was necessary to light off Remington UMC. So I now have all of my revolvers tuned to a 9.0 lbs DA trigger weight.

PS: my 40 S&W caliber revolver is the 610, yeah it doesn't just shoot 10mm. I do shoot 357 Magnums and for those I use Starline brass and drill the flash holes out to a 0.082 inch diameter. Which is a royal PITA but if you load a case with a flash hole jammed by some stainless steel pins it isn't going to fire.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:53 PM
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The great thing about forums is that learnings and experiences help document for others so they can learn.

But this sword cuts both ways: We now have a thread whose title bashes a product. When in reality the root of the OP's issue very well might be an issue with how the product is being used.....not the product itself. The only way some future person might realize this is by reading all the responses.

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Old 02-08-2020, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
This time I switched back to winchester but made 20 rounds using CCI primers, but after seating them, I went back a second time to give them another push upwards with my hand priming tool.

On a side note, I just worked out how much I can buy factory ammo at 1000 rounds vs reloading and I save $20 to $40 per 1000 rounds! Yikes definitely not worth reloading..lol
Savng money depends a lot on what & how you buy components. Yes for 9mm you save less but consider I can load 357sig for the same cost as 9mm or 45 for a couple pennies more than 9. Worth it for me.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:04 PM
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When PPC was popular,guys around here would all go for Federal.CCI they said have a harder cup.But we are talking about mostly model 10 highly customized with a light double action(shorter arc)pull.
Most of my handguns have a lightly tuned action and all of them will light up CCI reliably.
A bad batch is also possible.I have had a problem with Winchester large rifle primers at a ratio of aprox 4%.That's huge for primers are normally reliable at way over 999/1000
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:01 PM
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Never had a problem with CCI primers once I started using a hand held primer.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:58 PM
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I do the hand prime thing also.................

Prime ten cases and put them on a table top and see if they wobble, any.

A weak hand or worn plastic part can cause the primer to not seat fully.
Add a drop of oil to the unit also to smooth it up and help in seating the primer.

If you still have problems a new case holder might be in order ?

Good luck.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:08 PM
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OK GUYS SORRY FOR YELLING BUT I FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!! THE ISSUE WAS NOT CCI PRIMERS IN SPITE OF THEM BEING VERY HARD. THE LYMAN HAND PRIMER NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU PRESS, IT IS NOT SEATING THE PRIMER ALL THE WAY. AFTER SEATING A PRIMER AND PUTTING IT ON A HARD SURFACE, THE BRASS CARTRIDGE ROCKS BACK AND FORTH BECAUSE IT IS STICKING OUT OH EVER SO SLIGHTLY, CAN'T TELL WITH NAKED EYE UNLESS YOU REALLY LOOK FOR IT. I NOW USE MY HORNADY SINGLE STAGE PRESS WHERE THE PRIMER SEATER I CAN USE SOME LEVERAGE AND PROBLEM SOLVED. BOTTOM LINE LYMAN SUCKS
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:26 PM
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I'm glad to hear you figured the problem out. The machine I like to prime with is the RCBS bench mount priming system. It gives a very positive feel for you so that you know when every primer has bottomed out. Even though I use a progressive press for my pistol cartridges, I still rather prime off the press with my RCBS priming system.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:46 PM
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Your primer seating problem is operator error, you don't know what you are doing. Your Lyman priming tool might be out of adjustment, worn components, or you have weak hand strength.

When you "pop" a primer on the Hornady press, you will start a rant about Hornady presses aren't any good. Your problems aren't the end of the world, or a major quality problem at a components manufacturer, but simply you made a mistake and are responsible for what didn't work.

Not all the answers are on YouTube or the internet. There are multiple excellent reloading manuals available. The instructions for your Lyman primer or the Lyman reloading manual would provide insights to your priming problems.

We can't collectively teach you everything about reloading or shooting. Reading and asking questions without condemnation, will solve a lot problems. Making mistakes is also a LEARNING experience, not the end of your tiny universe.

Primers are supposed to be seated below flush. Some cases have tight primer pockets. Some primers may be a tiny bit over size. The population of primers and cases is in the trillions. The largest primer probably won't fit into the smallest primer pocket, and the smallest primer won't stay in the largest primer pocket, but no primer (or very few) stays in an AMERC case when the bullet is seated. That is why collectively, again, reloaders throw away AMERC brass.

Be safe out there. And you still haven't bought us a cup of coffee.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:46 PM
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During the Summer months, I participate in a PPC league, firing approximately 6000 rounds year, all double action in my S&W Models 14, 19 and 66. Try to use Federal exclusively, but will use Winchester in a pinch. I save the CCI primers for my Ruger Single Actions with the heavy hammer. For me, Federal small primers have most reliable ignition when shooting a revolver double action.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:50 PM
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Marathonrunner is shooting a semi auto.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:10 AM
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Light strikes are never a problem with the primer.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
but using whatever brass I find on the range floor to reload
this is my first impression of what may be the problem...I reload only my own brass....so I know the history of use....and use a hand primer to "feel" the primer seat.....and I have never had problems with CCI primers
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer1911 View Post
Your primer seating problem is operator error, you don't know what you are doing. Your Lyman priming tool might be out of adjustment, worn components, or you have weak hand strength.

When you "pop" a primer on the Hornady press, you will start a rant about Hornady presses aren't any good. Your problems aren't the end of the world, or a major quality problem at a components manufacturer, but simply you made a mistake and are responsible for what didn't work.

Not all the answers are on YouTube or the internet. There are multiple excellent reloading manuals available. The instructions for your Lyman primer or the Lyman reloading manual would provide insights to your priming problems.

We can't collectively teach you everything about reloading or shooting. Reading and asking questions without condemnation, will solve a lot problems. Making mistakes is also a LEARNING experience, not the end of your tiny universe.

Primers are supposed to be seated below flush. Some cases have tight primer pockets. Some primers may be a tiny bit over size. The population of primers and cases is in the trillions. The largest primer probably won't fit into the smallest primer pocket, and the smallest primer won't stay in the largest primer pocket, but no primer (or very few) stays in an AMERC case when the bullet is seated. That is why collectively, again, reloaders throw away AMERC brass.

Be safe out there. And you still haven't bought us a cup of coffee.
The hand press is brand new and last year I used the same hand press(not the one I presently own the last one the plastic guide got seared off when a primer went sideways while pressing) with no issues. On occasion I would get a light primer strike but that would be rare.

To answer your other question, yes i am pressing firmly and after seeing the primers not fully seated gave a second try pressing same primer still wont push it all the way in. So I put the same cartridge back in the hand priming tool and gave another try this time making sure I was pressing very firmly and hard. The primer was still not getting seated. Maybe the hand press tool metal rod that pushes the primer in was manufacturered just a tad too short don't know

I have read on another forum lyman hand press requires their own shell holder. Not sure ic that is rumor but will verify with them in the morning. I cannot imagine a shell holder from various companies would make a difference thought all shell holders have the same tolorances.

Last edited by marathonrunner; 02-14-2020 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
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OK GUYS SORRY FOR YELLING BUT I FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!! THE ISSUE WAS NOT CCI PRIMERS IN SPITE OF THEM BEING VERY HARD. THE LYMAN HAND PRIMER NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU PRESS, IT IS NOT SEATING THE PRIMER ALL THE WAY. AFTER SEATING A PRIMER AND PUTTING IT ON A HARD SURFACE, THE BRASS CARTRIDGE ROCKS BACK AND FORTH BECAUSE IT IS STICKING OUT OH EVER SO SLIGHTLY, CAN'T TELL WITH NAKED EYE UNLESS YOU REALLY LOOK FOR IT. I NOW USE MY HORNADY SINGLE STAGE PRESS WHERE THE PRIMER SEATER I CAN USE SOME LEVERAGE AND PROBLEM SOLVED. BOTTOM LINE LYMAN SUCKS

No, that can't be, In your title you said CCI Primers are the "ABSOLUTE WORST"


Gee what else could it possibly be???
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:50 AM
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No, that can't be, In your title you said CCI Primers are the "ABSOLUTE WORST"


Gee what else could it possibly be???

CCI is the hardest so I guess in that catagory I was not wrong. When I posted this Hornady and other manufacturers told me CCI was hardest and to try Federal so that was the only thing I had to go on
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