I just finished putting an old 1894 Winchester carbine, circa 1901 together and realized I don't have any ammo to test her out. My Bad! However I do have all the components to make fresh ammo. In the dark recesses of my MAN CAVE I found a very heavy box of marked 30-30 lead bullets, .308 dia with a weight of 156.0gr My old Lyman cast bullet manual does not give me a clue on where to start. I don't hunt anymore so this will be a paper tiger load. I need a "cowboy" load for this old shooter Please share your load data with this old cowboy.

My Lyman Cast bullet Handbook has data for a 151 gr. bullet. I would use starting loads of some of the pistol powders listed (Red Dot, 700x, Green Dot, Unique, etc,) where all are under 28,000 CUP (PSI?)

My load:

165 Gr. Lead FP
10.0 Gr Unique
1550 FPS

Fun to shoot!

The "Reloading Pages of M.D. Smith" (online) list a .308 diameter 158-160 grain LRNFP or RN (Cowboy Load) using H4895 or H4195. Starting velocities are in the 1350 and 1400 range. There are also some 152-155 grain loads listed (nothing specific for 156 grains, however, but you might be able to extrapolate from those).

Does it have anything stamped on the barrel about smokeless powder? Mine was a 1894 take down made in 1906 with a stamp <especially for smokeless powder.> I use win. 748 and stay under 1600 fps. with lead.

7.5 grs. of red dot is very mild + accurate in mine - trail boss is also great for lite loads -

Have used this very load for SASS side matches....Works very well and is quite accurate.

Randy

My coated 158 grain 30-30 plinking load is with 8.0 grains of unique.
Clocked just over 1300 FPS.
David

^^^ That right there! It is impossible to go wrong with that load.

The Lyman cast bullet manual data is pretty much the gold standard, and it has a pile of recipes for the .30-30 using pistol and shotgun powders. If your bullets are plain base (do not have gas checks), you should stay in the sub-1500 ft/sec MV range. If you want to get closer to 2000 ft/sec, then you should use gas check cast bullets. Further, the slower powders such as 2400 and IMR 4227 are the ticket for lead bullets at higher velocities. I personally prefer IMR 4227 with my .30 gas check lead bullets in various cartridges, clear up to .30-'06. I don't attempt to go beyond 2000 ft/sec in any .30 caliber rifle.

My personal experience in using plain base cast bullets in the .30-30 has not been good. I could never get them to print tight groups.

When I first started reloading for the 30-30 , using cast bullets I started out with 6.5 grs of Red Dot . For just plinking and punching paper at shorter range , it worked fine . I would consider that a " cowboy " load . Regards, Paul

The "classic" 30-30 , 150 to 165 gr. lead bullet, tin can & paper target load is :

Starting load - 10.0 grains Unique @ 1577 fps +/-

my pet load is - 11.0 grains Unique @ 1637 fps +/-

Maximum load - 12.0 grains Unique @ 1697 fps +/-

Gary

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all 30 30 [ 30wcf ] were smokeless powder , never originally designed for black powder -

I have had 3 Savage 340 bolt actions a couple of single shots and a Savage 24 30-30/20 gauge. I have never owned a lever gun in 30-30!

I have found that the Remington factory round 50 grain "Accelerator" is about like shooting a 223 bolt gun and kills groundhogs very well at 300+ yards!

I loaded light plinker rounds for dad's 1952 Win 94 30-30 using a 117 cast RNFP over 5 grain of Unique (stuff 1/2 cotton ball on top of the powder). Very much 32-20 performance, and good for pests around the barnyard! Not nearly as loud as full power 30-30.

Ivan

Here is the stamp. I didn't say they ever shot black powder.

Attached Images

winchester1894-7.jpg (104.0 KB, 49 views)

Yes, my carbine has the smokeless stamp circa 1901. I think all my early 1894 Winchesters rifles have the stamp.

You didn't mention too much about the cast bullets so let me ask:

1. Has the lubricant dried up and what type is it? Graphite, Alox, Etc.
2. As noted by Delta 419, if the bullets don't have a copper gas check, keep your velocity down, I wouldn't start out at anything over 1,200 fps until you know if the alloy will stand up to slightly higher velocities.
3. That 10.0 grains of Unique would be my choice for shooting up those cast bullets.
4. Check your bore too. A rough bore may lead too much for cast projectiles. A worn bore may not grip those bullets sized to .308" and require something a bit larger like .310."
5. The older Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook Number 3 has the most pistol or fast powder loads. The later Number 4 has lost that info for some reason.

Good luck with the old war horse. I shoot a bunch of cast bullets through my 30/30s. My favorite cast bullet is the Lyman 311041 (170 grains) sized to .310" with a gas check and NRA Alox lube.

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Keep your powder dry.

That load should just be going supersonic. Take a half grain off and you can stay a little quieter. Your load works with Bullseye, Clays, Titegroup, AA2.
Somewhere there is a link to pistol powder loads tested for CAS applications - I dont have it anymore.

Ed Harris recommended 11.0gr 2400;it duplicates the target load of the 32-40...I tried it and it works fine.I get 100 yds 5 shot groups around 2'' out of my 4 30-30.
5.5 Titegroup works very well;as if not more accurate and not position and or temperature sensitive.It gets around 1100 fps from a 20''bbl.
my bullets are cast at 161gr plain base and either left unsized at .311 lubed with liquid Alox or sized .310 with my homebrewed lube.No leading with any even when I push them at a little over 1250fps.

I also prefer the slower powders for lead bullets, in the same range as 2400, H110, and IMR 4227. There was once a Hodgdon powder called H240 in the same range, which was excellent with lead bullets, but it was dropped from the line many years ago. I have burned up several pounds of it, but it's gone now. With lead bullets, they just seem to group better than the pistol and shotgun powders. Of course the charge weights will be somewhat greater also, so the economy suffers. Six grains of Red Dot is a lot cheaper than 15 grains of 4227.

At $30 a pound, there are 7000 Grains in a pound means each Grain costs about 3/10 of a cent. So 6 grains of Red Dot costs about 1.6 cents and 15 grains of H4227 costs about 4.5 cents. Primers are about 4 cents each. for the sake of argument we will say you reloading brass is free, That leaves the bullet cost. The low end for buying bullets was 17 cents each (by the 100) So reload cost is:

0.05 powder
0.04 primer
0.17 bullet
0.00 brass

$0.26 a round with H4227 and maybe 3 cents less for Red Dot, compared to factory prices either one is a bargain, and my experience says both shoot more accurately than factory ammo!

Ivan