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Old 02-13-2020, 01:33 AM
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Default Starting reloading, what is needed

I am seriously considering starting reloading. The local Cabela's Outfit store carries reloading items. I asked an employee what was needed, I am not confident in what he told me.

So, what do I need and what brand?
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:35 AM
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Read at least one paper handloading manual first. A new Lyman manual, #50, about twenty dollars, has a list of the minimum basic items needed and explains the use of each. This is a credible publication and much better than an Internet source. Good luck in your endeavor-
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:03 AM
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Once yo decide what calibers you will be reloading and what equipment you want start searching the used market. Reloaders are always upgrading or dying off putting used equipment on the market. Main components do not tend to wear out. A lot of us are using presses that are 50+/- years old.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:10 AM
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Depends to some extent as to what you plan on reloading. The lyman manual is a good place to start. Add a manual from a bullet maker, and you've a great start. I would strongly advise not starting with a progressive press. Using something like a lee loader or a single stage press may take more time per round, but you'll be able to see any mistakes easier.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:16 AM
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Number One Tip, do NOT try to "go cheap". Purchase the cheapest powder scale on the market and you will end up purchasing another, and more expensive as soon as you discover the flaws in that cheap scale.

To start out I would suggest going with RCBS Equipment. A Rock Crusher press is an excellent and durable single stage press that can serve you well for 30 years or more. Same for the RCBS Powder measures and scales. BTW, I recommend the Competition powder measure, it's not cheap but it is well made and very easy to set up.

BTW volume based powder measures will have a variation in the thrown charges and that variation is a product of the metering quality of the powder being used. Large granule flake or extruded powders meter poorly and can show a variation of +/- 1/2 grain or more. With poor metering powders an automated electronic scale can be quite useful but a less expensive option is to just weigh each charge thrown and use a trickler to get the charge weight perfect.

As for load manuals, you never can have too many. I have the Speer, Lyman, and Lee manuals on hand. Lots of interesting and informative information in these manuals well worth studying.

So to sum up, you need a Press, Powder Measure, and Accurate Scale plus load manuals. Then you will need Dies for your specific calibers. BTW, my Dies are either RCBS or Lee because the cost/value for these brans is excellent.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:20 AM
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Were I replacing everything, I'd probably start with one of the kits from RCBS, Hornady, etc.

You'll need to start out with the basic decisions ... caliber and then single stage or progressive.

Have fun, it's a great aspect of the hobby.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:31 AM
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The very first thing you have to think about is: WHERE AM I GOING TO RELOAD? You need some space and a solid table or work bench. You will need to see what you are doing too, so the area needs lighting.

Secondary recommendation, Brands. When buying new Lee, will be the CHEAPEST! In both meanings of the word. You can mix brands of equipment as long as the die sets and the press use the standard 7/8-14 thread pattern. Try to keep the die sets in one brand so you can swap small parts when one breaks. (many thing are covered by warranty, but it takes time for them to arrive. Most brands, the decapping pins are not warranty items, so a pack of extras is a safe bet!)

If you are REAL GOOD at following directions, you can start with a progressive, but a single stage is far simpler.

STAY AWAY from: light weight aluminum presses. Durability comes from mass or at least thick castings.

When I have to buy new dies and I'm in a hurry, I prefer RCBS or Redding Die sets! But I'll take a bargain on used any brand! Lee has very short dies as a rule, but that usually not a problem until you get into progressive presses.

Powder measurers (also called DROPS) are a necessity, buy a very good one for the rest of your life. (Lyman 55 is a very good time proven design)

Ivan
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:33 AM
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:42 AM
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Default Shellholders.....

Don't forget shellholders and a powder funnel. Loading blocks are a good thing to have.

I've been doing good with an RCBS Uniflow powder measure. I check my charges with a $30 Harbor Freight digital scale.

Learn as much as you can from a book. You can get extra info off of the internet or on this forum, but people do things different ways. There are difference in the types of cartridges that are important. Safety is the utmost.

More charge data can be found at the powder manufacturers web sites.

Find out what calibers you will be loading for.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:54 AM
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I started reloading when I bought a box of used equipment for $100. It was everything I needed, except for a scale, to load 38/357. Still have the Lyman spartan press.
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:05 AM
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Will you just be loading for pistol cartridges? Rifle? Shotgun? Each has their own special needs, some of which overlap. If you do buy a digital scale, make sure you have something to check it with. The cheap ones can be very finicky and inaccurate.

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Old 02-13-2020, 09:12 AM
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Lots of great advice above and don't have much to add but do not let those with prejudice towards certain brands sway you too much. Over almost forty years I've had Lee, Lyman, Hornady and RCBS presses, dies and other components. I now have nothing but Lee for all my needs (except priming and powder measure).
Lee equipment will last and I've had no trouble with any caliber I've loaded for.
Agree with the suggestions for manuals. I have Lyman 50th; Hornady 10th and latest Lee. Also have caliber specific for my most shot rounds.
Enjoy and be safe.
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:20 AM
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A few reloading manuals , at least 4 , because there are so many different powders, primers and bullet no one book has it all .
Read the first few chapters of each... the instructions ... again , so much info that no single book has it all. Speer , Hornady , Lyman #50 , Western Powders , Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4...all are good and you will use them.

It's rare to buy everything you need at a yard sale for $10.00 in an old cardboard box...one thing is you don't know what you need .
Buy a starter Kit like the Lee 50th Anniversary Challenger Press Kit, they sell for right at $140 - $150 and contain a single stage O press and just about everything you need . You can always upgrade later and you will always have a need for a single stage press .

That and asking questions from us old guys who have been doing this for 50 or so years (experience is a heck of a teacher) will get you going and keep you on track .
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:19 AM
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Oracle - just a suggestion - you provide just a bit more information to receive the best guidance. For example, using extremes, if you said you intend to load one rifle cartridge for precision target shooting of 100 rounds per month, the guidance would differ from if you said you want to shoot hundreds of rounds per week of a handgun cartridge.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
Read at least one paper handloading manual first.
Go to a gun club or library - some place that has several handloading books or manuals. Find one that you enjoy reading. Read it.

My favorite is just a book, not a manual. It's an oldie. It's called "Handloading for Handgunners" by Maj. George C. Nonte. I lost my copy years ago, but the library can get it for me if I put in a request. I can spend hours reading that book.
I keep the Lyman reloading manuals for reference.
I started with this. All it took was a mallet, powder, bullets, primers, and time.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:09 AM
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I've been loading for 50 years and have used products from several companies. Out of that I'll make the following comments. I'll also agree the Lyman manual provides the best information to beginners.

Scales: Lyman has a very sight edge due to the agate bearings for the beam. The others work, it's just a very slight edge. Treat it with care and get a set of test weights to keep verifying accuracy.

Powder measure: adjustable provides the best flexibility, fixed measures can be much faster to use if you're switching loads more often IF the inserts match the actual weight of charge you want with a given powder. DO NOT bet on the accuracy of charts. Sometimes they'll be dead on. More often you (should) find yourself making your own charts of X measure = Z grains of whatever in the real world.

The multiple adjustable slides of the Lyman 55 allow you to determine charge weights, measure slide adjustment with a calipher and record this to get you in the ball park when changing charge weights. You can get real frustrated fussing with adjustable measures trying to get back to a desired weight. I've got an RCBS measure that once I got it adjusted to throw the desired charge, I went out and bought another brand to do other things. Hack: once you've got an adjustable measure set for a given charge for one powder, it just might throw a needed weight for others.

Many don't do this, but a case gauge is real cheap insurance that your loads are going to fit in your chamber. If loading bottle neck cases, you can verify that your headspace (case shoulder to base) measurement is good.

As a few people is noted, cheap can end up being very expensive. OTOH, in some cases (no pun intended) don't pay too much for a name.

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Old 02-13-2020, 11:12 AM
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I'm not a big fan of lee dies for expanding. They don't work that well with cast bullets, rcbs or the Lyman m dies are better for lead bullets.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHunt View Post
Were I replacing everything, I'd probably start with one of the kits from RCBS, Hornady, etc.

You'll need to start out with the basic decisions ... caliber and then single stage or progressive.

Have fun, it's a great aspect of the hobby.
I agree on a kit from Lee, or RCBS, etc. Otherwise you will suffer way too many shutdowns while you wait on stuff to come in. I got an RCBS kit one Christmas about 35 years ago, and with a set of dies, I was on the ground running. Since then I've mostly bought dies, a digital scale, and a Lee Auto-Prime. I think my starting manual was the Speer #9? If loading pistol rounds, I'd get Bullseye and Unique starting out.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:02 PM
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The best advice I got when starting out, an old timer told me to start with a single stage press! He was right, it helped me understand the process, bust MOST IMPORTANT, things went at a slow pace, to catch potential errors, and correct mistakes already made. Both Lee & Lyman are good reloading manuals to start with, the Powder Mfg sites are a good source for loading data also.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:49 PM
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Before spending a LOT of money....................

Read up on reloading to get an idea of what is needed per
equipment $ cost for the ammo that you will be making.

When you have a caliber, start with a light target load that is safe and learn the basics of putting a load together.
You will have mistakes and "Junk loads" but this happens when you start out, but they can be taken apart, no big thing if just 20 loads.

Yow will have to select a case, primer, powder and bullet but they can be bought
in town in small amounts, for your fist try.
If you decide that it is your cup of tea.............
larger amounts of supplies might be in order.

I have always had a RCBS single stage loader, case tray, scale, small container and alum. spoon, in a well lighted area for my loading.

Take your time read up, then go spend some $$.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
Read at least one paper handloading manual first. A new Lyman manual, #50, about twenty dollars, has a list of the minimum basic items needed and explains the use of each. This is a credible publication and much better than an Internet source. Good luck in your endeavor-
What He said. I have been reloading for over 55 years now and still have My original RCBS press. Redding powder measure, Forster trimmer which is necessary for rifle, Redding and RCBS dies, Rcbs scale. Don't pay much attention to the children of Bass Pro and Cabelas as They try to impress with their knowledge. Read, read and read some more. Ask questions here and then go to the store with a written list of what You want and stick with it.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:37 PM
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Since it hasn't already been posted, in the Notable Threads sticky above is a very good thread with plenty of links in it to help you on your way getting into reloading. Here is a link to it for you to look at.

So you're thinking about getting into reloading...
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:38 PM
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to start:
A MAN SHOULD KNOW HIS LIMITS; safety is always FIRST.

First, let me describe the other side of the tools coin.

Several post here gave good advice, do one stage at a time; start with a single stage press. That can be safe, when you know your own limits.

I want to give close, but opposite advice; do one stage at a time, but start with a progressive press.

I learned on the top of the progressive press line, the Dillon 550b. I only did one stage at a time to start. That lasted about a month before I started doing two stages at a time. It was about a week later I went to all four stages at one time.

First stage:
Sizing the case, decapping, and priming was easy and straight-forward. I saw no reason to question anything there. Pulling the die, replacing with a new die, setting up the new die, and then starting again seemed ridiculous.

Second stage:
Single stage presses also meant I had to buy a powder trickler and blocks. I found I hated moving around filled cases of powder. I kept bumping them.
After I put powder in, I immediately wanted to seat a bullet on top and protect.

Stage three:
I immediately started seating bullets; which kept my carefully measured powder, covered and protected.

Stage four:
Of all the stages, Crimping is most problematic; strong, soft, taper, or profile.
It can show the error of the other stages, or mask them, or fix them. I try to never correct other stages's errors at stage four.

Cases that aren't trimmed to length can cause seating errors of too much or too little which are compounded at crimping when not caught in the seating stage. Bullets without defined crimp grooves can cause issues when starting. Too strong of a crimp can cause case bulge just below the mouth.

A progressive press where only one round is produced at a time, is best at showing errors before hundreds of one stage errors can be made before they are discovered. One bad round, I can handle; several hundred and I can start belly-aching big time.

But if there is one recommendation I always make, it is to find a Mentor who can teach. Someone with experience who can show you the ropes and then watch you, can save months or years of frustration and danger.
You may even discover what type of press and accessories you like.

I only got about two hours worth my first time and I am still thankful I went that route.
If you learn through trial and error, then you MUST get a mentor. People learn from reading, others learn from watching, some just have to pizz on that fence themselves to find out. If you are the last type, GET A MENTOR.

Prescut
IMO, Redding is the best and most expensive dies by far. RCBS are excellent dies, price, and customer service. Lee FCD and Lyman "M" are nice specialties.

Last edited by oddshooter; 02-13-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:35 PM
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This is where I say try to find a good mentor to show you the ropes and answer questions. Being told is one thing, being told then shown is a lot better.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:02 PM
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I started reloading from scratch this time last year...I landed up buying even more equipment over the year, but here's what I started with to load 38/357, 44 mag/spcl, 9mm:

For mass loading:
-Dillon 550 with necessary dies/conv plates, etc (comes with primer pickup tubes)
-case gauges
-Primer tray
-scale (digital, bar...pick either. I have a bar scale)
-resizing lube

For loading a few at a time/load development I added:
-powder trickler
-powder funnel set
-brass trays
-Powder scoop set

For brass cleaning:
-brass tumbler (and tumbling media)
-Handheld case reaming tool (cleans case mouth, primer pocket)


I added many other things this year...but this is what I really needed to get the ball rolling...
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:53 PM
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Thank you for your guidance, I plan on loading .45 magnum, .357 magnum and maybe just maybe 5.56 way down the road. I will pick up a Lyman manual, an opportune time to read and study will be after my ankle replacement surgery in two weeks.

Thank you one and all, the forum members on this site always provide excellent information.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:42 PM
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Oracle - Your plan to read up while recovering from your surgery sounds perfect. Then even more recovery time at your bench. The fact is, there is too much to know if you just ask the question "what do I need?" But, get your feet wet with the basic tools, and I would recommend the single stage press route, then come back here with specific questions when they arise. Since you mentioned .357 as a preferred caliber, that would be a great place to start - except at .38 Special levels. Your call on whether to load 38 or 357 cases, just keep them in the lower range. That particular load is one of the most forgiving and perhaps the easiest to learn on. That's what I did. Probably best to start with one of the medium burn rate powders like Unique or BE-86 so that you aren't just loading some tiny amount of powder like Bullseye. Shooting your own loads, customized for your needs, is one of life's great pleasures. Then, when you are confident enough to load a true magnum, you close your eyes, squeeze the trigger, it goes BANG and you are off and running! Have fun. Ask questions.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
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Thank you for your guidance, I plan on loading .45 magnum, .357 magnum and maybe just maybe 5.56 way down the road. I will pick up a Lyman manual, an opportune time to read and study will be after my ankle replacement surgery in two weeks.

Thank you one and all, the forum members on this site always provide excellent information.
Those straight walled pistol cases are a great place to start. Bottle necked cases are a slightly different beast.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:22 PM
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I will also recommend starting out on a straight wall case such as 38 Special or 357 Mag. Both are forgiving and easy to load and they will teach you the basics.

As to dies for reloading, I have had good success with the Lee carbide pistol sizer dies on my Dillon. Dillon's dies are good too. But I have a set of Redding 9 MM dies that the carbide sizer die that is hard to get the cases to feed into. I don't know if that's the way Redding made the die or if it's a defect, but it's not a good progressive press die at all.

I started out on one of the more tricky cases to load for, the 22 Hornet, when I was a kid. But I had my Dad as a mentor too. I didn't start reloading pistol cartridges until I bought my first 357 when I turned 18.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:19 AM
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Thank you for your guidance, I plan on loading .45 magnum, .357 magnum and maybe just maybe 5.56 way down the road. I will pick up a Lyman manual, an opportune time to read and study will be after my ankle replacement surgery in two weeks.

Thank you one and all, the forum members on this site always provide excellent information.
Thank you! I had a typo and stated .45 magnum, I meant .44 magnum. I shoot three times more .44 magnum than .357, when I get rolling I will most likely start off with .44 magnum loaded in the lower ranges.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:25 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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If you're loading .44 Magnum, you'll pay for your equipment in fairly short order.

One important thing no one has mentioned: an inertial bullet puller. You'll need this to break down your mistakes. You will make mistakes.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:37 AM
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I'm not a big fan of lee dies for expanding. They don't work that well with cast bullets, rcbs or the Lyman m dies are better for lead bullets.
I've learned this the hard way. My 9mm Lee dies are a bear to use with lead bullets. When you adjust them to flair the case mouth it becomes very hard to lower the arm and remove the case from that stage. Wouldn't be an issue if you were using jacketed bullets and didn't have to worry about shaving lead.

Last edited by max503; 02-14-2020 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:54 AM
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You'll need to do an honest assessment of your needs and abilities and try to match the equipment to fit that.

1. The volume of ammo you want.
2. The time available to load.
3. Your own mechanical aptitude.

I started with a single stage and shortly regretted it and upgraded to a progressive. Why?

Do you expect to reload a lot of ammo? 200 rounds a month is one thing. 200 rounds a week is another. Depending on how much time you have available. At the time I started I had a job that required overtime, two small children, a house......

I don't do well with simple repetitive tasks. Sitting there batch processing on a single stage actually bores me to death. For me, it's actually less safe than a progressive. When I get bored my mind has a hard time focusing on the task at hand.

I am however fascinated by more complex machinery and enjoy using it and watching it work. Which is probably why I spent my entire working life with equipment far more complicated that any reloading press. It's easier for me to pay attention on a progressive. But that's me.

If you are not mechanically inclined start with the single stage.

But don't get too hung up on single-stage vs progressive. Everybody I know with a progressive also has a single stage. Sometimes it's just easier to use the single stage for a small quantity of test loads than to convert the progressive. So it's your call. The single stage is less expensive and if the hobby doesn't stick you won't have as much at risk. Just be aware that if it does stick you'll probably want a progressive if you're primarily a handgun shooter. We tend to go through a lot of ammo.

Last edited by glenwolde; 02-14-2020 at 10:55 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:55 AM
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IMHO The internet is not a good place for in-depth information on any subject, especially something like reloading. Too many distractions, too many opinions. You need to sit down with a good book.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:08 AM
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I recently gave up loading and kind of miss it.
That said I like the dillion square deal for pistol and rcbs rock chucker for rifle.
Cabela no longer carries dillion.
Shop around and gather a few more bits of advice.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:09 PM
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When I started I was making house payments and feeding two kids on the skinny paychecks of a young police officer. Economy was the goal and my guiding light.

I second the suggestion of looking for used equipment. Good presses simply do not wear out. My RCBS came to me used in 1972 and is still going strong. I added another used press the same way. Ohaus 10-10 powder scale is a fine piece of equipment, which I bought for next to nothing. Lachmiller powder measure has been accurate and easy to use for decades. Garage sales and estate sales frequently include someone's lifetime accumulation of good equipment that can be owned for pennies on the dollar.

I tend to purchase reloading dies new rather than used. Sizing dies in particular can be damaged by carelessness or sloppy use. Good die sets are not terribly expensive and last a lifetime (or two) with proper use and storage.

Heavy duty workbench is a must. I build my own using framing lumber, top faced with plywood (everything glued and screwed) and covered with linoleum. Make sure that the design allows heavy use without tipping over (I extended the braces on the lower legs about 8" so I can do heavy case sizing work without moving the bench).

Probably the best reference book available is the Lyman Reloading Handbook. Complete rundown on essential equipment and proper use, along with more advanced articles that will come in handy over time. The covers and bindings on my Lyman manuals have fallen apart after years of use, so they are permanently mounted in 3-ring notebook binders.

I have also picked up a dozen other manuals and books over the years, usually at gunshow tables in good used condition for a couple of bucks each.

For at least the last 35 years I have made a practice of adding a set of dies and at least one bullet mold every time I add a firearm in another caliber. A couple of my rifles were purchased new and have never been fired with factory ammunition. Several more antiques in long-discontinued calibers are kept shooting with homemade ammo.

I enjoy making my own ammo just about as much as I enjoy shooting. While many others like to spend hours watching movies or TV, I spend much of my time at the loading bench
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:13 PM
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I recently gave up loading and kind of miss it.
That said I like the dillion square deal for pistol and rcbs rock chucker for rifle.
Cabela no longer carries dillion.
Shop around and gather a few more bits of advice.
I've had to learn what works for me, something everyone must do. One thing I've learned this year, "what kind of ammo" is just as important as "how much".

Currently, when it comes to 38 spcl and 9mm, I'm honestly a 1500 rd/yr shooter presently. 44 special/magnum much less. My 550 is just fine for that as I'll typically run 500 or so rd lots and that's good enough to last me a few months.

I wanted to get into match 223 loading, so I bought a single stage for that and given the lots I run, don't regret that decision. I now run my 44 magnum on the single stage as well due to the small lots.

I'll say this...much more than 500rd lots, I think I'd want the 750 over my 550. If my 9mm/38 shooting ever really picks up that much, I'll probably just "bite the boolit" and get a 750 with all the bells/whistles. If I ever want to seriously run 223 and 9mm...I might even move to a 1100.

If I REALLY get into shooting bulk 223...I guess I'd consider a CP2000 AND a 1100...but I'd have to do some serious AR shooting to justify probably $4000 in reloading presses.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:01 PM
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Waaay to many variables in your question. Just what do you want to accomplish? It is the first question I ask my reloading class students. That generally dictates the gear you buy. You can cobble ammo together with a Lee hand press for about $50. Slow, yep, but the ammo will go bang.
Trying to make precision rifle for hunting or 1000y shooting, a solid single stage press will be fine for the low volume. Need 800rds a month for pistol competition or training/practice, for me that means a good progressive press.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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IMHO The internet is not a good place for in-depth information on any subject, especially something like reloading. Too many distractions, too many opinions. You need to sit down with a good book.
Or find a reloading class to take. Understanding the process & getting some questions answered, far better than trying to figure it out on your own IMO.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:57 PM
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Go to a gun club or library - some place that has several handloading books or manuals. Find one that you enjoy reading. Read it.

My favorite is just a book, not a manual. It's an oldie. It's called "Handloading for Handgunners" by Maj. George C. Nonte. I lost my copy years ago, but the library can get it for me if I put in a request. I can spend hours reading that book.
I keep the Lyman reloading manuals for reference.
I started with this. All it took was a mallet, powder, bullets, primers, and time.
I’ve been reading this thread with great interest, as I will soon be setting up my own reloading bench. I thank everybody for all the comments. Regarding this book by George Nonte, I just found one on Amazon, used for $7. Also, ordered Lyman #50. Can’t wait to start reading!

Last edited by gfors; 02-15-2020 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:39 PM
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Or find a reloading class to take. Understanding the process & getting some questions answered, far better than trying to figure it out on your own IMO.
Taking a class is a very good idea. In many parts of the country there are NRA certified reloading classes available. Buy nothing but books before you attend. In the class different tools to handle different jobs are discussed which will probably save you money buying tools you don't need or are not right for your application.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:48 PM
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Iíve been reading this thread with great interest, as I will soon be setting up my own reloading bench. I think everybody for all the comments. Regarding this book by George Nonte, I just found one on Amazon, used for $7. Also, ordered Lyman #50. Canít wait to start reading!
Lyman is the reloading Bible.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:40 PM
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Taking a class is a very good idea. In many parts of the country there are NRA certified reloading classes available. Buy nothing but books before you attend. In the class different tools to handle different jobs are discussed which will probably save you money buying tools you don't need or are not right for your application.
I teach on basic ss presses. The learning is on how to adjust dies & things like oal, why to choose this or that piwder. Then I let them run a progressve just to see efficiency v cost.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:58 PM
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It can be really simple...
http://reloading/611082-reloading-ma...de-simple.html
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