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Old 03-10-2020, 09:30 PM
Ray Ray is online now
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Default Lee Loader crimp or not?

Hi, about to start loading for .45 ACP and AR with the Lee Loader.The manual states that no crimp is to be used in .45 ACP, but I would be firing the cartridges in my SW 1917.
Ammo for use in a revolver needs to be crimped so that the bullet donīt move forward in the case due to recoil.
What am I missing ?

Thanks, regards, Ray
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2020, 09:50 PM
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Hmmm, perhaps the Loader has a roll crimp, which wouldn't work with 45ACP in an auto. Does Lee use the same seater for, say, 45 Colt? Or maybe the operation of the Loader would cause a bulge when a crimp is applied. That's all I can think of. And you're right, a revolver round should have a crimp.

Conrad
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Old 03-11-2020, 05:59 AM
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Lee Loaders are great!
I can tell you the 45 Colt and 45 ACP are different. The ACP die will size cases tighter.
You don't mention the bullet you'd be using. I suggest a cast lead bullet measuring.453-.454". This will be a good choice given 1917 throats and bore. It will also be a fairly tight friction fit in a case sized with the Lee Loader.
As far as crimping goes, it is more important to be very consistent with your touch. Go light, just enough to remove the belling and just give a hint of crimp. Then try it. If you choose the right bullet, they won't creep.
Over-crimping will cause the case wall to take on a slight barrel stave shape. Instead of giving a tighter fit, it will actually be looser on the shank of the bullet.

Enjoy!
Jim
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Old 03-11-2020, 06:22 AM
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The 1917 revolvers used the same ammo as the 1911 autos which was .45 ACP rimless and was taper crimped.
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Old 03-11-2020, 06:45 AM
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The Lee 4 die set in.45ACP has a tapper crimp for the 4th die. It can be adjusted to suit your need.
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Old 03-11-2020, 08:39 AM
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I use the Lee dies and I've never crimped my .223 rounds for my AR. I fire thousands of rounds a year in Service Rifle competition and have never had an ammo problem.
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Old 03-11-2020, 08:50 AM
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Gentlemen , unless I read it wrong , he said " Lee Loader " kit . Which to me means the little kit you can hold in your hand . You basically " pound " everything together . What many of us started with eons ago . I would still give it enough of a crimp to at least remove the belling on the case mouth . If using cast bullets then more crimp in the crimp groove . If using plated , you must only close the case mouth and not much crimp or you will cut through the plating . The older Lee Loader kits came with a case mouth expander , a little tool . I am under the impression the newer kits have excluded it . If it were me , I would still expand the case mouth using a small socket out of my 1/4" set of sockets and give it just a very light tap , just enough to slightly expand the case mouth . The socket should be a fairly close fit into the case to help align it . You will be placing the smaller end of the socket into the case and letting the area where it bells out larger to fit onto the ratchet do the belling of the case mouth . Or , you can call LEE and ask they send you the case mouth expander for the 45 Colt . I would not try to seat cast bullets w/o expanding the case mouth as you will end up shaving off lead from your bullet . I hope this helps , Regards Paul

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 03-11-2020 at 08:58 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:12 AM
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Follow the directions that come with the Lee (Classic?) Loader .
The bullet seating die also applies a taper crimp .
Try the reloads in bot guns before jumping to any conclusions that you have a problem . My Lee Classic Loader 45 acp loads , with cast bullets , fed, fired & ejected in 1911's and didn't jump crimp in a 1917 S&W revolver .
If you do have a problem then address it otherwise ...have fun shooting!

OP , If you are not talking about the Lee Classic Loader....please disreguard all of the above and let us know what loading tool you have... In reloading DETAILS matter a lot .
Gary
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Old 03-11-2020, 09:28 AM
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The lightest crimp, taper or roll, that will prevent bullet movement under recoil is usually the best crimp. It requires some experimentation. A roll crimp, if desired, works fine for the .45 ACP cartridge, in either a revolver or semi-auto pistol. Again, this requires some experimenting. However, I've found accuracy to be very slightly better with the taper crimp when using cast bullets. I don't know about jacketed bullets.

If the instructions from Lee advise "no crimp", that might be worth trying, too. It may work and work well, but I've never tried it with the .45 ACP. Perhaps others have.
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:51 AM
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I've shot a lot of my 45 auto handloads through a Blackhawk and never needed anything more than a gentle taper crimp.

The type of press you use shouldn't matter.
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Old 03-11-2020, 11:21 AM
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Thanks folks I think this will do it. I will lightly crimp the cases and see what happens.
Now I`m going after a scale and maybe a powder trickle to complete my small set.

Thanks again, regards, Ray
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  #12  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:04 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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I found 3 small electronic scales in a apartment that was being evicted. The bailiff said they were drug related and couldn't be set out. I use one as a portable powder scale for reloading at the range, and gave the other two to reloaders. It uses 2 AA batteries, that have lasted years! Weighs in .01 Grams, .1 Grains, Troy ounces, Karat, and Penny weight. I think max weight is 250 or 500 grams (8.5 or 17.4 US ounces).

Midway has something similar, but they should be at any Head Shop. No idea of current cost, but 10 years ago they ran $10. I use Lithium batteries to avoid leakage. If your not buying a reloading specific scale you will need a tray and funnel; Lyman makes a plastic one that is both. (It works great!)

Ivan

I used to make reloading kits, with a Lee Loader, a can of powder (DuPont can were perfect) a brick of CCI primers (smallest package size) and all the bullets that would fit in a 30 caliber ammo can. I used a broken hammer handle for the WOMPER. None of my kits are set up any longer, but I now have 17 Lee Loaders, and 15 Lyman 310 die sets and 5 310 tong tools! A 303 British Lee Loader got me into reloading! Now I load 117 different rounds (including shotgun). If I ever get a camper again, you can bet there will be Lee Loader kits in it!

ITB
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:18 PM
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I like Lee Loaders, I have 7, even though I have 3 presses, 14 die sets and 1/2 ton of assorted reloading tools, they do have a place in my reloading tool/equipment stash. The 45 ACP does not need a crimp to hold bullets in place, just proper neck tension will do, even in a revolver. So, just use the crimp portion of the Lee Loader die body to remove any flare in the case mouth, and for a revolver, perhaps even that isn't necessary (check an uncrimped round in the chamber of your revolver and if it enters freely, you may not need a crimp). But as with all revolver loads, check for bullets walking under recoil (load a cylinder full and fire all except one. Measure the last round and check to see that OAL hasn't changed)...

Last edited by mikld; 03-11-2020 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 03-11-2020, 04:01 PM
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Thatīs a good tip Mikid Iīll try it as soon as I can,, thanks, regards, Ray
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Old 03-11-2020, 05:18 PM
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Lee Loader kits for semi-auto cartridges normally don't include the flaring tool. When loading cast bullets, you would usually shave some lead from the bullets; and in extreme cases, you would crush the cartridge case. I believe the instructions also say to chamfer the case mouth to ease the seating of bullets.

I still enjoy using the Lee Kits, even with all their little quirks :-)
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  #16  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:00 PM
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Use the crimp end of the sizing die...how to should be in the instructions.

Yes, crimp the 45 acp lightly for the revolver...a taper crimp will do fine.
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Old 03-16-2020, 07:30 PM
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You really do not need a crimp. Try some and see for yourself.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:43 AM
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Nice variety of opinion. I've got both Lee Loaders and single stage presses.
If you're going to shoot light target loads in a 45 ACP revolver, I doubt you'll have a problem with "walking bullets" whatever the crimp. Those loads may not cycle in a 45 auto pistol. If you're loading hot enough to cycle a stiff spring auto, I'd worry a little more when shooting them in my revolver. Don't recall any one mentioning this factor. As some one said earlier in reloading, details matter.
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:31 PM
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Groo here
Remember the Lee Loader has a crimp on the other end of the die.
you size,deprim,prim,charge and seat on one end.
Then turn it over and crimp on the other end, same die.
Get the flaring tool if you want to shoot cast.
Did ALL my reloading with one for years and it is amazing
how good the quality of the ammo is.
Remember Bench shooters smiths that make dies for their barrels
use the same tech,,, and an arbor press.[you could to.
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