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Old 03-14-2020, 08:19 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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Default Here’s some help - OAL 358429

Never have been able to seat 358429 at Lyman’s recommended 1.553” OAL length without having even a little crimp push down the bullet below 1.553” (to 1.545”). This shortening in OAL also required me to lower powder charges due to increase pressures (ie I had to use 11.0 grs 2400 with the 358429 since at the lower OAL, chronographed velocity with 11.0 grs was closer to an extrapolated 12.5 grs load).

Checking a copy of Handloader, they seated the 358429 to 1.557” OAL. This slightest increase in OAL stops the crimp from pushing down the bullet. Additionally, Lyman’s 1973 cast bullet manual calls for 1.565” OAL with the 358429, and this OAL of course also precludes crimping from pushing down the bullet.

Lyman always recommends crimping the 358429 - quoting Lyman - “on the forward edge of the first driver band” This is different than “over the edge” as many out there suggests - over the edge will get you an over OAL lower than 1.553” OAL, closer to the 1.545” OAL I was getting. Both the 1.557” OAL noted by Handloader and Lyman 1973 1.565” OAL allows crimping the 358429 ON the forward edge...and not over its edge.

I’m looking forward to using the 358429 as my go to bullet in 357 Mag cases rather than stoking them to 38-44 velocities and pressures in 38 Spl cases (I recognize that the 358429 was designed by Keith for 38-44 loads prior to the availability of the 357 Mag but I prefer to use 158 gr bullets in 38 Spl std and +P versions. I also have a 38 Spl only revolver and don’t care to have Murphy’s law ruin my day with the accidental loading of a 38-44 in my small frame 38 Spl).

Enjoy your weekend.

God bless the USA

Last edited by 38SPL HV; 03-14-2020 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 03-14-2020, 09:25 PM
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Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
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The one GOOD thing about using Lead bullets in any weapon........................

is that you can Crimp them at ANY OAL no matter where the "Can" is................

They are not as fussy as the jacketed bullets with their "Set" cannelure set by the maker, to where the OAL should be.

Plus you can use a Very Heavy crimp on a lead bullet that does lots of Good things, where a hvy "C" on a jacket bullet is not usually a good thing.
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Old 03-15-2020, 01:55 AM
308 Scout 308 Scout is offline
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So what is it exactly you're trying to do? Are you loading these for a .357 with a short cylinder or something?? I simply load and lead bullet, crimp it in the cannelure and am on my way.
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Old 03-15-2020, 06:22 AM
dhom dhom is offline
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Crimping on the forward edge of the bullet can make them tight in the cylinder. [keep an eye on that]
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Old 03-15-2020, 02:43 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 308 Scout View Post
So what is it exactly you're trying to do? Are you loading these for a .357 with a short cylinder or something?? I simply load and lead bullet, crimp it in the cannelure and am on my way.
Exactly, I have one which takes the longer 358429 crimped in its crimping groove but another which has a shorter cyclinder which requires one seated “short.” I made the mistake of grabbing the wrong box of 357s with 358429 seated “Long” but took my 357 with shorter cylinder to the range....wasted 30 miles of gas to and from the range.

Also, Lyman loading data velocities and pressures are based on the 358429 crimped “short.”
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Old 03-15-2020, 07:03 PM
308 Scout 308 Scout is offline
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OK, that makes a little more sense.

This would probably help with your crimping woes-



Just me, but I wouldn't get too worked up about increased pressures from the slight differences. The Lyman manual shows 13.5 grs. as a max.

308S
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:52 AM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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The chronograph proved that the lower seating depth increased pressure...my 11.0 grs of 2400 with the 358429 seated short exhibited velocities typical of 12.0 grs in loading books - 1,136 FPS (10 shot avg) with 11.0 grs in Ruger 4 5/8 BH...that is fast for 11.0 grs and this bullet. It even exceeded the velocity of my 38-44 (38 Spl cases) using same 11.0 grs charge but under lighter bullet 158 grs.

...I take seating depths seriously.
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:53 AM
Greenjoytj Greenjoytj is offline
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I load cast revolver bullets in 38 Spl, 357 and 45 Colt.
I park the upper edge of the bullets crimp groove about .002” (2 thou) above the case mouth.
I do this is to give the case mouth clearance to roll crimp under that edge.

Unfortunately my COL is always reduced from the pre-crimped length by about 5 to 8 thou.

I never thought my crimp was excessive as I was just crimping enough to get the edge of the case rolled under the ledge of of the crimp groove, but COL reduction always occurs.

My trim to case length right out of the OEM bag is always shorter than the case length used in the published load recipes.
My chrono always reports MV less than the published load recipe MV even though my COL is shorter by up to 12 thou.

Last edited by Greenjoytj; 03-16-2020 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 03-16-2020, 12:17 PM
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I started reloading revolver ammo in '69, way pre web (I got my info from published texts and manuals and not from anonymous screen names) and figgered the bullet designers placed the crimp groove in the proper location. I looked at the bullets, saw the crimp groove, noticed it's function and seated the bullets to the crimp groove and disregarded the "book OAL". In all my revolver reloading since, I have used the crimp groove or cannalure to determine the OAL and have had some very accurate handloads (one I remember was I was getting consistent sub 2" groups @ 50' from my Ruger SBH in 44 Mag.,with elbows resting on the table). But I understand a reloader working with specific variations in methods and/or components. That's what reloading is for, and sometimes a feller just wants to know...

Last edited by mikld; 03-18-2020 at 02:50 PM.
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