Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-25-2020, 04:48 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 155
Likes: 107
Liked 246 Times in 84 Posts
Default 38 SPL 124gr Bayou Bullet RN

working up a load on my lnl. Full size die, minimal expand to get the bullet into shell. Seat and crimp with same hornady die. COL 1.45", seem to me like bullet sets too deep? I think I have too much crimp, how best to tell?

after I pull the bullet I see a groove from the crimp, does that tell me I need to back off some?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-25-2020, 04:57 PM
Troystat Troystat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 371
Liked 519 Times in 334 Posts
Default

I would think that the crimp should be before the nose of the bullet starts to round over. To my mk1 eyeball it looks like you have seated the bullet a bit deep.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-25-2020, 05:48 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 3,985
Liked 4,582 Times in 2,269 Posts
Default

Your bullet has no dedicated crimp groove ...so we are going to have to wing it .
I would seat the bullet out just a bit farther , maybe 1/16th inch , and crimp on the parallel sides of the bullet and I would use a taper crimp because there is no crimp groove or cannelure to crimp into .
I simply use the seat and taper crimp die from my 9mm Luger die set when loading bullets that are smooth sided .
A light roll crimp can be used the problem is it must be adjusted to hold the bullet without deforming the bullet or cutting the powder coating .
Loading is easier in revolver ammo if a proper revolver bullet with a crimp groove is used ... the smooth sided , auto-pistol bullets can be used but you have to seat and crimp them like you are loading auto-pistol (9mm) ammo .
Seating a bullet out farther will lessen pressure , no danger there .
Load a few test rounds , load 6 , fire 5 and see if your crimp holds the bullet in place .
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Last edited by gwpercle; 04-25-2020 at 05:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-25-2020, 06:53 PM
Troystat Troystat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 371
Liked 519 Times in 334 Posts
Default

If your using a single stage press you might consider crimping separately from seating, takes more time but sometimes it is easier.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 04-25-2020, 06:55 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 155
Likes: 107
Liked 246 Times in 84 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Your bullet has no dedicated crimp groove ...so we are going to have to wing it .

I would seat the bullet out just a bit farther , maybe 1/16th inch , and crimp on the parallel sides of the bullet and I would use a taper crimp because there is no crimp groove or cannelure to crimp into .

I simply use the seat and taper crimp die from my 9mm Luger die set when loading bullets that are smooth sided .

A light roll crimp can be used the problem is it must be adjusted to hold the bullet without deforming the bullet or cutting the powder coating .

Loading is easier in revolver ammo if a proper revolver bullet with a crimp groove is used ... the smooth sided , auto-pistol bullets can be used but you have to seat and crimp them like you are loading auto-pistol (9mm) ammo .

Seating a bullet out farther will lessen pressure , no danger there .

Load a few test rounds , load 6 , fire 5 and see if your crimp holds the bullet in place .

Gary
I can seat with my 38/357 seat/crimp die, then crimp with my luger die? How do you crimp on parallel sides?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 04-25-2020, 07:00 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 155
Likes: 107
Liked 246 Times in 84 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troystat View Post
If your using a single stage press you might consider crimping separately from seating, takes more time but sometimes it is easier.
I have been depriming separately then will resize, prime and expand. Then come back later and powder, seat and crimp, I have an extra station just need another crimp die
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-25-2020, 08:33 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 3,985
Liked 4,582 Times in 2,269 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=akoda;140750693]I can seat with my 38/357 seat/crimp die, then crimp with my luger die? How do you crimp on parallel sides?[/QUOTE

1.) Yes you can seat with your 38/357 die , apply no crimp .
2.) You taper crimp with the 9mm Luger seat/crimp die ,( crimp but adjust not to seat bullet any deeper )taper crimp just like you are loading 9mm ammo because the bullet you are using is a 9mm bullet designed for 9mm Luger , 38 Super etc.
The taper crimp doesn't roll the case edge into the smooth bullet side...it just presses the case against the bullet .

On bullets with parallel sides , like plated and cast 9mm Luger bullets , when loading them in 38/357 I simply use the seating / crimping(taper crimp) die from my 9mm Luger set in place of the 38/357 seat/crimping (roll crimp) die .
I don't use powder coated so I can get away with seating/crimping in one step ...But with coated bullets you will have better results seating in one step with your 38/357 die and in a seperate step applying a taper crimp with your 9mm Luger die . Less chance of the coating getting cut or scraped .
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Last edited by gwpercle; 04-25-2020 at 08:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 04-25-2020, 08:36 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 155
Likes: 107
Liked 246 Times in 84 Posts
Default

[quote=gwpercle;140750836]
Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
I can seat with my 38/357 seat/crimp die, then crimp with my luger die? How do you crimp on parallel sides?[/QUOTE

1.) Yes you can seat with your 38/357 die , apply no crimp .

2.) You taper crimp with the 9mm Luger die , taper crimp just like you are loading 9mm ammo because the bullet you are using is a 9mm bullet designed for 9mm Luger , 38 Super etc.

The taper crimp doesn't roll the case edge into the smooth bullet side...it just presses the case against the bullet .



On bullets with parallel sides , like plated and cast 9mm Luger bullets , when loading them in 38/357 I simply use the seating / crimping die from my 9mm Luger set in place of the 38/357 seat/crimp die .

I don't use powder coated so I can get away with seating/crimping in one step ...But with coated bullets you will have better results seating in one step with your 38/357 die and in a seperate step applying a taper crimp with your 9mm Luger die . Less chance of the coating getting cut or scraped .

Gary
great information, thanks

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-25-2020, 09:01 PM
flagman1776's Avatar
flagman1776 flagman1776 is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1,883
Liked 1,444 Times in 599 Posts
Default

I use a spare 9mm sizer die as a "taper crimp" on slugs with no crimp groove. I have a boat load of hardcast 150 SWC intended for 38Super but work fine in 38/357.
__________________
NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 04-25-2020, 10:09 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,510
Likes: 885
Liked 5,829 Times in 2,858 Posts
Default

I had some .358 Dia 9mm that did not work out and I used them in my 38 special, to shoot after a lead bullet session to clean the barrel.
They were 125gr RN coated and I used a standard OAL but I would think that a little longer OAL just short of a 158 gr. Lead RN bullet Spec. would also work.

Maybe try a OAL of 1.50" and see if your groups tighten up ?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-26-2020, 07:58 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 30
Liked 1,095 Times in 492 Posts
Default

Take a pencil and fill a 1" square with graphite (write on it solid with pencil at an angle) and roll that bullet over the square. (flour/dust/etc works also)

Look at the body of the bullet after rolling it. You will clearly be able to see where the bullets body ends and the rn/curve begins. That line is the max seating depth of that bullet.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 04-26-2020, 04:48 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 155
Likes: 107
Liked 246 Times in 84 Posts
Default

I think this looks like a good crimp. thanks to your tips 1.5 OAL, now to pick a powder
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 04-26-2020, 06:00 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 3,985
Liked 4,582 Times in 2,269 Posts
Default

That looks Good !

Powder ? For accuracy/ target shooting , Bullseye still #1 .

Lots of powders will work for 38 special and lead bullets .
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:55 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,510
Likes: 885
Liked 5,829 Times in 2,858 Posts
Default

With coated bullets in my 38 special cases...........
a good powder for light target loads is any thing FASTER than Unique powder.

Bullseye and w231 worked for me in all my test.
Good shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-03-2020, 04:09 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 155
Likes: 107
Liked 246 Times in 84 Posts
Default

I loaded six with 2.3/2.4 gr bullseye at 1.5 oal and went to test in my 19-5. they made a thud, only shot two, in between I made sure the first one cleared the barrel. I pulled the remaining to learn the crimp.

I need to expand the case a little more, looked like seating is scraping the coating from the bullet.

I also need to back off the crimp some.

I'll bump BE to 2.5 gr., adjust and take another test trip to the range

all good

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Attachment 448378

Last edited by akoda; 05-04-2020 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-10-2020, 01:25 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,510
Likes: 885
Liked 5,829 Times in 2,858 Posts
Default

in my 686 6" revolver, with a 125gr LRN coated bullet........

4.0 grs of Green Dot gave me 840fps.
a little less in a 9mm gave me 945fps.

Lyman starts out with 3.2grs of Bullseye at 1.44" OAL. (lead)This load in my 2" J frame only puts out 627fps.

Your "X-Lite" loads might cause a Squib, so tread lightly.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 05-10-2020 at 01:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-10-2020, 02:49 PM
oddshooter oddshooter is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: the free state of Arizona
Posts: 549
Likes: 1,041
Liked 959 Times in 332 Posts
Default

Would anyone like to tell me why you can't deep seat and roll crimp over where the bullet starts to taper.

I read from Bullseye and Silhouette shooters that deep seating is excellent for accuracy.

I think everyone already knows that it will increase pressure; that's why the powder dispenser is adjustable.
Is there another reason besides pressure that no one has recommended deep seating and backing off the powder weight?


Prescut
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-11-2020, 12:20 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN 38 SPL 124gr   Bayou Bullet RN  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,510
Likes: 885
Liked 5,829 Times in 2,858 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddshooter View Post
Would anyone like to tell me why you can't deep seat and roll crimp over where the bullet starts to taper.

I read from Bullseye and Silhouette shooters that deep seating is excellent for accuracy.

I think everyone already knows that it will increase pressure; that's why the powder dispenser is adjustable.
Is there another reason besides pressure that no one has recommended deep seating and backing off the powder weight?


Prescut

You can seat a RN bullet past the flat cylinder part of the bullet.

However the crimp will not have a surface to come into contact with and the bullet will just be pushed down into the case farther.

The case will also be over worked and this will lead to an early death of the case from being over worked.

A proper roll crimp has minimum case bending and contact with the bullet, when it enters the cannelure.
A major crimp will bottom out in the "Can" but this is hard on the case if loaded 3-4 times with a full load.

Shoving a bullet deep into a case w/o a crimp to hold it from moving, is just asking for trouble.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bayou 124gr, 9mm load data flyrobb Reloading 10 07-05-2016 07:22 PM
Bayou bullet coated velocity Boogsawaste Reloading 10 09-13-2014 07:31 AM
Anyone load the Bayou Coated 124 gr RN 9mm bullet? COAL? Rule3 Reloading 18 08-12-2014 10:40 PM
Bad day on the Bayou CAJUNLAWYER The Lounge 45 01-28-2013 12:11 PM
New guy from the bayou scooterj67 New Members Introduction 12 07-10-2012 09:05 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:03 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)