working up a load on my lnl. Full size die, minimal expand to get the bullet into shell. Seat and crimp with same hornady die. COL 1.45", seem to me like bullet sets too deep? I think I have too much crimp, how best to tell?

after I pull the bullet I see a groove from the crimp, does that tell me I need to back off some?



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I would think that the crimp should be before the nose of the bullet starts to round over. To my mk1 eyeball it looks like you have seated the bullet a bit deep.

Your bullet has no dedicated crimp groove ...so we are going to have to wing it .
I would seat the bullet out just a bit farther , maybe 1/16th inch , and crimp on the parallel sides of the bullet and I would use a taper crimp because there is no crimp groove or cannelure to crimp into .
I simply use the seat and taper crimp die from my 9mm Luger die set when loading bullets that are smooth sided .
A light roll crimp can be used the problem is it must be adjusted to hold the bullet without deforming the bullet or cutting the powder coating .
Loading is easier in revolver ammo if a proper revolver bullet with a crimp groove is used ... the smooth sided , auto-pistol bullets can be used but you have to seat and crimp them like you are loading auto-pistol (9mm) ammo .
Seating a bullet out farther will lessen pressure , no danger there .
Load a few test rounds , load 6 , fire 5 and see if your crimp holds the bullet in place .
Gary

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If your using a single stage press you might consider crimping separately from seating, takes more time but sometimes it is easier.

I can seat with my 38/357 seat/crimp die, then crimp with my luger die? How do you crimp on parallel sides?

I have been depriming separately then will resize, prime and expand. Then come back later and powder, seat and crimp, I have an extra station just need another crimp die

[QUOTE=akoda;140750693]I can seat with my 38/357 seat/crimp die, then crimp with my luger die? How do you crimp on parallel sides?[/QUOTE

1.) Yes you can seat with your 38/357 die , apply no crimp .
2.) You taper crimp with the 9mm Luger seat/crimp die ,( crimp but adjust not to seat bullet any deeper )taper crimp just like you are loading 9mm ammo because the bullet you are using is a 9mm bullet designed for 9mm Luger , 38 Super etc.
The taper crimp doesn't roll the case edge into the smooth bullet side...it just presses the case against the bullet .

On bullets with parallel sides , like plated and cast 9mm Luger bullets , when loading them in 38/357 I simply use the seating / crimping(taper crimp) die from my 9mm Luger set in place of the 38/357 seat/crimping (roll crimp) die .
I don't use powder coated so I can get away with seating/crimping in one step ...But with coated bullets you will have better results seating in one step with your 38/357 die and in a seperate step applying a taper crimp with your 9mm Luger die . Less chance of the coating getting cut or scraped .
Gary

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[quote=gwpercle;140750836]great information, thanks

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I use a spare 9mm sizer die as a "taper crimp" on slugs with no crimp groove. I have a boat load of hardcast 150 SWC intended for 38Super but work fine in 38/357.

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I had some .358 Dia 9mm that did not work out and I used them in my 38 special, to shoot after a lead bullet session to clean the barrel.
They were 125gr RN coated and I used a standard OAL but I would think that a little longer OAL just short of a 158 gr. Lead RN bullet Spec. would also work.

Maybe try a OAL of 1.50" and see if your groups tighten up ?

Take a pencil and fill a 1" square with graphite (write on it solid with pencil at an angle) and roll that bullet over the square. (flour/dust/etc works also)

Look at the body of the bullet after rolling it. You will clearly be able to see where the bullets body ends and the rn/curve begins. That line is the max seating depth of that bullet.

I think this looks like a good crimp. thanks to your tips 1.5 OAL, now to pick a powder

That looks Good !

Powder ? For accuracy/ target shooting , Bullseye still #1 .

Lots of powders will work for 38 special and lead bullets .
Gary

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With coated bullets in my 38 special cases...........
a good powder for light target loads is any thing FASTER than Unique powder.

Bullseye and w231 worked for me in all my test.
Good shooting.

I loaded six with 2.3/2.4 gr bullseye at 1.5 oal and went to test in my 19-5. they made a thud, only shot two, in between I made sure the first one cleared the barrel. I pulled the remaining to learn the crimp.

I need to expand the case a little more, looked like seating is scraping the coating from the bullet.

I also need to back off the crimp some.

I'll bump BE to 2.5 gr., adjust and take another test trip to the range

all good

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Attachment 448378

in my 686 6" revolver, with a 125gr LRN coated bullet........

4.0 grs of Green Dot gave me 840fps.
a little less in a 9mm gave me 945fps.

Lyman starts out with 3.2grs of Bullseye at 1.44" OAL. (lead)This load in my 2" J frame only puts out 627fps.

Your "X-Lite" loads might cause a Squib, so tread lightly.

Would anyone like to tell me why you can't deep seat and roll crimp over where the bullet starts to taper.

I read from Bullseye and Silhouette shooters that deep seating is excellent for accuracy.

I think everyone already knows that it will increase pressure; that's why the powder dispenser is adjustable.
Is there another reason besides pressure that no one has recommended deep seating and backing off the powder weight?


Prescut

You can seat a RN bullet past the flat cylinder part of the bullet.

However the crimp will not have a surface to come into contact with and the bullet will just be pushed down into the case farther.

The case will also be over worked and this will lead to an early death of the case from being over worked.

A proper roll crimp has minimum case bending and contact with the bullet, when it enters the cannelure.
A major crimp will bottom out in the "Can" but this is hard on the case if loaded 3-4 times with a full load.

Shoving a bullet deep into a case w/o a crimp to hold it from moving, is just asking for trouble.