Yet another primer shortage......

[growr]

At least here in Billings MT there are NO primers at all.....flashback to the shortages of yesteryear................

How about where you live? Gone as well? How many times do we have to go through this garbage?????

I am not in need but I know many are.

Randy

[MyDads38]

I was "lucky" enough to locate 5K Small Pistol Magnum primers. I don't use magnum primers, but if regular primers don't become available, at least I can use them. At the onset of this pandemic, I got online to order SP primers and they were sold out already. Local shops carry very few reloading supplies.

I made 2 orders at XTreme Bullets, took longer to receive but I did get both orders-BEFORE they raised their prices!! Everglades Ammo pulled the same stunt 2 weeks before XTreme Bullets. Raised their prices and eliminated the 2K/4K quantities from the website. I'll remember this, when this pandemic blows over!

I'm okay on powder, now and for the future. I have a new melter and about a dozen new bullet molds-just in case....

Hope this doesn't last long term.

[Sam McCord]

No shortage here, there's a potload of them downstairs in the gun room. All types!

[ArchAngelCD]

I see no shortage here in NEPA.

Let's try not to work everyone I into a false fear and cause another shortage. We are our own worst enemy.

[rwsmith]

...finding them online, but you have to buy enough to make the hazmat fee worthwhile.

[Ivan the Butcher]

There was no shortage before the quarantine! But a bunch of people that don't bother to learn, decided to buy their supplies after the emergency arrived.

I you were one of the three little pigs, and I were the wolf, I'd be having ham for dinner!

My supply is getting uncomfortably low, I have been loading for weeks, and I'M down to 40 bricks of primers. I'll stock back up when thing cool off a little, but I'm not expecting to pay $8.99/1000 (full retail) like I did in the 80's!

Ivan

[Engineer1911]

^^^^^ PROPER PLANNING ^^^^^. Primer prices are rising faster than inflation, excellent return on investment.

[Just another 22 shooter]

No primer shortage here. I'm pretty well set for the rest of my shooting and probably will have few left over for my beneficiaries to inherit.

[memtb]

Originally Posted by growr

At least here in Billings MT there are NO primers at all.....flashback to the shortages of yesteryear................

How about where you live? Gone as well? How many times do we have to go through this garbage?????

I am not in need but I know many are.

Randy

Randy, Where I live, plenty of primers..... not sure about the stores, however! memtb

[robertrwalsh]

I haven't even bothered to look here in CA. I get a good supply in (not hoarding, just an acceptable depth to the supply closet) when they are easily available and cheap. I usually buy at gun shows, which are not operational right now but look like they will be again in 2-5 weeks maybe. My last purchase was about $135-5,000 Winchester, small pistol standard and large pistol. i haven't actually checked in the gun stores lately.

[stansdds]

Fortunately, I bought primers a couple of years ago when they became inexpensive and plentiful. I'm sure the prices are escalating and there will be a shortage as ammo companies move the bulk of their primer production to ammo production.

[Eddietruett]

Everywhere I’ve been there is plenty of large rife and large pistol. Everyone is wanting the small ones. Story of my life. Where was this mindset in my younger years when I was out playing the field?

[fredj338]

We are back to 2012-13. Shortages are everywhere. So like then, you need a reserve to last you a year minimum. When things get better, stock up. To give you an idea, i shoot about 10k rds a year in handgun. I recently opened a case of cci dated 11/2010, so you can see I have stocked up.
Though I think this shortage lasts longer than 2012-13.
Manuf then ran 24/7 shifts to keep up. Manuf now are not working at all or working limited hours & staff. I am thinking a year minimum & prices will only go up from here.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by rwsmith

...finding them online, but you have to buy enough to make the hazmat fee worthwhile.

Check again, not much in pistol primers online.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

I see no shortage here in NEPA.

Let's try not to work everyone I into a false fear and cause another shortage. We are our own worst enemy.

Well it isn't a false fear if the shortage is already here? The problem is the people that didn't have started buying a lot. It is not unlike the self induced TP shortage. You see it flying off the shelves & think what you have may not be enough.

[muddocktor]

Yep, I thought ahead and stocked up on primers and powder before they got hard to find. And just bought 6k of bullets in various calibers too, so I got a decent supply on hand.

[mikld]

I don't consider the lack of components a "shortage". It is a "Panic", and "Over buying/hoarding" situation. The component manufacturers have produce a sufficient supply of components but those unprepared reloaders panicked and bought much more than usual/needed "gotta get mine before someone else gets it all"...

[walnutred]

Originally Posted by mikld

I don't consider the lack of components a "shortage". It is a "Panic", and "Over buying/hoarding" situation. The component manufacturers have produce a sufficient supply of components but those unprepared reloaders panicked and bought much more than usual/needed "gotta get mine before someone else gets it all"...

So you are saying shortages are artificially created when people panic buy? Like buying magnum primers when you don't use magnum primers, but they were on the shelf?

[nedlate]

Originally Posted by walnutred

So you are saying shortages are artificially created when people panic buy?

That was exactly how the 22lr shortage occurred!
Ed

[ArchAngelCD]

The primers I am now using are mostly marked 2009 so most of my older primers are gone.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by mikld

I don't consider the lack of components a "shortage". It is a "Panic", and "Over buying/hoarding" situation. The component manufacturers have produce a sufficient supply of components but those unprepared reloaders panicked and bought much more than usual/needed "gotta get mine before someone else gets it all"...

I am pretty sure ammo companies & component manuf are all shut down right now or reduced staff. That plays into this too. Most people dont invest money in things for future use. Notice the TP, hand sani & alcohol shortages. Those companies are still rumning btw, still shortages.
Every Time something causes a shortage it wakes a few more shooters up & you start investing. This current situation is a once in 100y event. It will change how most of us invest in our futures, whether it be ammo or TP or food supplies.

[mikld]

Originally Posted by walnutred

So you are saying shortages are artificially created when people panic buy? Like buying magnum primers when you don't use magnum primers, but they were on the shelf?

Nothing artificial about overbuying. Again, I don't consider the situation a "shortage" as the manufacturers have all along produced sufficient amounts for the market. It is a case of "overbuying", not artificial but a purposely fabricated buying spree, aka "panic"; "panic; a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals."...

Perhaps personnel layoffs and factory closings have caused part of the shortage, but very few manufacturers work on a "just in time" manufacturing system (products are manufactured and delivered for the buyers use without any stocking. Products arrive just in time for use). The ammo and reloading component inventories disappeared almost overnight, inventories from months of "pre-panic" manufacturing, so the lay offs and closures will affect us more later, once all the distributor's warehouses are empty...

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by mikld

Nothing artificial about overbuying. Again, I don't consider the situation a "shortage" as the manufacturers have all along produced sufficient amounts for the market. It is a case of "overbuying", not artificial but a purposely fabricated buying spree, aka "panic"; "panic; a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals."...

Perhaps personnel layoffs and factory closings have caused part of the shortage, but very few manufacturers work on a "just in time" manufacturing system (products are manufactured and delivered for the buyers use without any stocking. Products arrive just in time for use). The ammo and reloading component inventories disappeared almost overnight, inventories from months of "pre-panic" manufacturing, so the lay offs and closures will affect us more later, once all the distributor's warehouses are empty...

Yet they are NOT producing "enough", not producing at all or limited right now. Most of tne primer prduction goes into ammo. So what really is enough? The vast majority of reloaders still buy their primers & pwfers local. It takes very little bulk buying to wipe them out. There arent that many shops that sell primers & powder so that magnifies things a lot.
Ths will take a while since limited or zero manuf is going on right now. Unlike 2012-13, when manf increased production, there is almost nothing being out into the supply chain right now. I am betting 6-9m shortages & prices always ho up.

[mikld]

Most manufacturing businesses don't have crystal balls to predict market activity. Ammo production was running normal and there was sufficient supplies on the shelves and in distributor's warehouses. Unable to predict a sudden panic buying, inventories disappeared. Manufacturers DID make enough. Now because of an infectious disease, manufacturing has slowed or stopped completely, after the fact and too late. The problem was/is not from the manufacturers, but from panicky consumers. Just like TP, there was plenty on hand, enough for everyone, until the panic spread from person to person and now bottom wipe is a premium commodity...

If there is any blame to be placed, it's with the unprepared, selfish consumer that wants "to get mine before anyone else gets it"...

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by mikld

Most manufacturing businesses don't have crystal balls to predict market activity. Ammo production was running normal and there was sufficient supplies on the shelves and in distributor's warehouses. Unable to predict a sudden panic buying, inventories disappeared. Manufacturers DID make enough. Now because of an infectious disease, manufacturing has slowed or stopped completely, after the fact and too late. The problem was/is not from the manufacturers, but from panicky consumers. Just like TP, there was plenty on hand, enough for everyone, until the panic spread from person to person and now bottom wipe is a premium commodity...

If there is any blame to be placed, it's with the unprepared, selfish consumer that wants "to get mine before anyone else gets it"...

Its only enough if it meets demand & obviously it is not. Unlike 2012-13, manuf ramped up to meet the new demand. Now will they ramp up when they go back to work? Imo, no. With 20m + out of work, not much money for ammo or reloading stuff. So I think they start up business as usual, not 24/7. This will take awhile to correct, not like last time.

[gwpercle]

If you didn't learn a lesson from the 2012 shortage you might want to pay attention ....these "shortages" run in cycles and will happen every few years .
After this one , stock up for the next one ...it's coming so you might want to .... " Be Prepared " !
Gary

[Moe Mentum]

Where were you this summer when Winchester had a rebate on all of it's primers ? I bought 11K, remembering the Obozo shortage a few years back. Those who don't remember history, are bound to repeat it....

[DumpStick]

Yeah, CCI ran a rebate on primers just a few months ago. I got in on that one.

Fiocchi Small Pistol Primers were on sale last summer, at MidSouth (IIRC). 15K SPP for 2.3¢ each. Frt and hazmat was still under 3¢ delivered per.

Some folks plan ahead, some don't.

[oberon]

Where I live there are several thousand of each. No Lg rifle, 'cos I don't load any, but I got bricks of the ones I do.

[mikld]

Originally Posted by fredj338

Its only enough if it meets demand & obviously it is not. Unlike 2012-13' manuf ramoed up to meet tje new demand. Now will they ramp up when they go back to work? Imo, no. With 20m + out of work, not much money for ammo or reloading stuff. So I think they start up business as usual, not 24/7. This will take awhile to correct, not like last time.

The crazy panic "demand" could not be predicted (there was no TP in my small town for a bit over a month, and still no face masks, hand sanitizer, alcohol, or sanitizing wipes from unpredictable sales), and normal business practices cannot apply, as it is an unforeseen PANIC. The manufacturers did produce enough even with a "shakey" market forecast (coming election) but no company could have predicted and supplied the amount for the insane buying, and if the panic didn't appear they would be faced with warehouses stuffed with product, and probably faced layoffs of "unnecessary" employees. It isn't a problem caused by manufacturers, but a problem caused by unprepared, selfish "consumers"...

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by mikld

The crazy panic "demand" could not be predicted (there was no TP in my small town for a bit over a month, and still no face masks, hand sanitizer, alcohol, or sanitizing wipes from unpredictable sales), and normal business practices cannot apply, as it is an unforeseen PANIC. The manufacturers did produce enough even with a "shakey" market forecast (coming election) but no company could have predicted and supplied the amount for the insane buying, and if the panic didn't appear they would be faced with warehouses stuffed with product, and probably faced layoffs of "unnecessary" employees. It isn't a problem caused by manufacturers, but a problem caused by unprepared, selfish "consumers"...

Maybe just semantics but we all know price is controlled by availability. So enough to me means stores do not run out, regardless of the run on them. Enough would mean exactly that, surplus being sold at reduced prices. There was some of that with individual sellers, but as a rule, there was just enough in the supply chain to keep prices stable. The big issue, they are NOT making more to resupply the current demand. When will that happen, who knows. I am betting this time next year we might see something that looks like "enough".

[nedlate]

Originally Posted by fredj338

I am pretty sure ammo companies & component manuf are all shut down right now or reduced staff.

I can assure you one ammo/primer company is not shut down or running reduced staff.
Ed

[cmj8591]

Originally Posted by nedlate

I can assure you one ammo/primer company is not shut down or running reduced staff.
Ed

And judging form your location in Idaho, I'm going to guess that their initials are CCI.

[mikld]

Say a farmer owned a corn field. All the corn was growing fine and the farmer had planted as much as he was sure he could sell. Then a huge flock of crows came along and ate/destroyed the entire crop. Would raising the price the farmer wanted for he corn magically produce a larger crop?

So, say all the ammo and component manufacturers produced enough for every one's needs and then a huge flock of panicked buyers came along and bought up all the products. Would raising the price suddenly make more components/ammo available?

I think I'm through with this "discussion"...

[Turn4811]

The standard small pistol primer I am currently using is dated 2006 and I paid $21 a brick. I have purchased a brick of pistol LP and Magnum LP in the past 2 years. I have enough rifle and pistol SP to last another 10 years and I haven't bought a pistol SP in 5 years or a rifle primer in over 10.

[growr]

duplicate posting

[78bagger]

My shooting partner rode me when I bought primers at the gun shows. I'd pick up a thousand here, 5 thousand there. He'd laugh. Think you've got enough primers? He'd laugh, I'd laugh. Now I've got 50k different size primers. I'm still laughing.

[LostintheOzone]

It would be a good idea to keep 5K primers and 8 lbs of powder on hand for the cartridges you load for. I know that seems extreme but we aren't living in a just-in-time supply world anymore. Powder and primers will fade in and out in the next few years. So will ammo.

My neighbor who doesn't reload has cases of ammo stacked in his shop. He uses a fork lift to take it down from the racks. Buys it cheap, stacks it deep. He could sell me 1000 rds of 5.56 or 9mm tomorrow and never miss it.

[LAH]

Not a bunch of primers round here.

[MyDads38]

Just took delivery of 10,000 Winchester Small Pistol primers today. Cabela's had them online and in Stock @ $34.99/1,000. Not as cheap as I like to buy them, but hey, not bad for the times. Free shipping, $20 HazMat and some points I could use made it bearable. Don't know if still available but worth a look if you can use some. Just thought I'd share...

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by nedlate

I can assure you one ammo/primer company is not shut down or running reduced staff.
Ed

Which would that be? Even if true, they certainly aren't running 24/7 as in 2013??

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by mikld

Say a farmer owned a corn field. All the corn was growing fine and the farmer had planted as much as he was sure he could sell. Then a huge flock of crows came along and ate/destroyed the entire crop. Would raising the price the farmer wanted for he corn magically produce a larger crop?

So, say all the ammo and component manufacturers produced enough for every one's needs and then a huge flock of panicked buyers came along and bought up all the products. Would raising the price suddenly make more components/ammo available?

I think I'm through with this "discussion"...

Raising prces slows consumption, that is the purpose of raising prices; gas, bread, corn or primers.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by 78bagger

My shooting partner rode me when I bought primers at the gun shows. I'd pick up a thousand here, 5 thousand there. He'd laugh. Think you've got enough primers? He'd laugh, I'd laugh. Now I've got 50k different size primers. I'm still laughing.

That is exactly how you get to 50k primers with minimal impact on your budget. Well done.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by LostintheOzone

It would be a good idea to keep 5K primers and 8 lbs of powder on hand for the cartridges you load for. I know that seems extreme but we aren't living in a just-in-time supply world anymore. Powder and primers will fade in and out in the next few years. So will ammo.

My neighbor who doesn't reload has cases of ammo stacked in his shop. He uses a fork lift to take it down from the racks. Buys it cheap, stacks it deep. He could sell me 1000 rds of 5.56 or 9mm tomorrow and never miss it.

Extreme, hardly. My reserve is 10k per size of anything I shoot a lot. So when I open that 2nd to last case of sp or lp, I buy another 5k. Powders are very interchangable, primers are a must. Besides, 8# of pistol powder is 6-11k rds, so a 10k stash is totally warranted.

[schutzen-jager]

still using up my stock from the 90's when Bill Clinton was threatening to require reloaders to have a federal license + to have manufacturers limit primer shelf life to two years -

[MyDads38]

Originally Posted by LostintheOzone

It would be a good idea to keep 5K primers and 8 lbs of powder on hand for the cartridges you load for. I know that seems extreme but we aren't living in a just-in-time supply world anymore. Powder and primers will fade in and out in the next few years. So will ammo.

I learned from the last shortage, so when powder came available I started stocking up. 8 lb containers became the norm, 1 lb'ers optional. I won't be able to use all I have, but that's okay

I continue to add to my primers and bullets as/when I can. Never thought this virus would cause the panic it did on guns, ammo and components (and toilet paper ) Again, live and learn

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by MyDads38

I learned from the last shortage, so when powder came available I started stocking up. 8 lb containers became the norm, 1 lb'ers optional. I won't be able to use all I have, but that's okay

I continue to add to my primers and bullets as/when I can. Never thought this virus would cause the panic it did on guns, ammo and components (and toilet paper ) Again, live and learn

We all know in a true SHTF crisis, LEO will go home to their families to protect then. This event is such an unknown, people I know that never wanted a gun suddenly wanted a gun & ammo. Regular shooters see the warning signs & start adding to their stash. I almost pulled the trigger on 10K more SPP in Feb but paused. I didn't need them but would have been nice to have them.

[LAH]

I have enough primers I probably won't shoot them all before the Lord calls me home. Both make me feel good.

[dogdoc]

Learned my lesson long ago. Stocked up when everything was good

[max503]

I remember decades ago when I used to buy primers, a hundred at a time, from the gunshop. I used them to load 22 Hornets with a Lee Loader.
I've since learned to buy the big, economy sized boxes and I've never felt the sting of the temporary (so far) shortages. Lets just hope they remain temporary.