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Old 05-11-2020, 11:52 AM
typetwelve typetwelve is offline
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Zero Bullets 44 mag 240g measurements and load questions Zero Bullets 44 mag 240g measurements and load questions Zero Bullets 44 mag 240g measurements and load questions Zero Bullets 44 mag 240g measurements and load questions Zero Bullets 44 mag 240g measurements and load questions  
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Default Zero Bullets 44 mag 240g measurements and load questions

So, I know the deal with Zero's 44.

I just received 1000 of them and they do seem good to go. With that said, I decided to measure them to see how they stack up to Horandy XTPs (the only other 240g jacketed projectiles I have). First off, looking all over the web, the issue with them being listed as .431" comes up more than anything else. With random pulls from the box, the Zero seem to come in at .430" across the board. The Hornady are mostly .429 with my mic being in between the .429 and .430" marks. It seems that Sierra does the same thing, the dia of their 240g projectiles are listed at .4295" as well. With all the stuff I've read, I'm not going to get twisted about a .0005" dia difference.

So, I'm not concerned about dia...what I am concerned with is the seating depth. The XTP is considerably deeper under the crimp line. Average depth into the case is just around .345". The Zero is a much shorter .300". Being that I need to seat to that line, I'm going to have more open space in a Zero load than I am a XTP...so attempting to use XTP data may cause an issue. I do have 2400 but I was planning on using up some H110 with these fellas.

So...load data with H110. Here's where it makes my head hurt. I'm going to pull from 4 points of data, Hornady, Hodgdon, Nosler*, and Lyman.

Hornady states- 1.600" OAL, 20.7-24.8g of H110 (which seems like a wide spread of H110 to me)
Hodgdon (with a Nosler projectile) states- 1.600" OAL with 23-24g of H110.
Nosler states- 1.580 OAL with 22.8-23.8g of H110
Lastly, my Lyman manual states- 1.600 with 22.5-23.5g of H110 for Sierra projectiles
1.610 with 23.5-24.5g of H110 for generic "240g HP"

So...an OAL of 1.580-1.610 and H110 charges from 20.7-24.8 grains?

I'm taking a stab here at 1.600" OAL with a charge of 23g to 23.5g of H110? Sound about right?

(...sorry about the wall of txt)

Last edited by typetwelve; 05-11-2020 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:13 PM
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I would start at 23gr H110. That is my go to load for 240gr 44 mag. No matter the bullet maker I have not seen any concerns.

I have a bunch of the zero 240gr too. Mine all seem to measure .4305
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:14 PM
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I would choose the lowest powder charge listed among the sources, manuals I have, and start with starting/min. loads and work up if necessary, seating bullet to the cannalure (I figger the bullet designers knew where to place the cannalure). Err on the safe side. I've been reloading 44 Magnum for quite a while and I no longer use W296/H110 as it is a "heavy load only" type of powder, either no load or heavy magnum load...

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Old 05-11-2020, 12:23 PM
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Are they the JSP bullets? Do they have a cannelure??


I can not tell from this picture? If that line is a cannelure, just load to that.


Roze Distribution: 44 Mag 240 Gr JSP $ per 1000
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:26 PM
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Seat a revolver bullet so you can crimp into the crimp groove .
Do not crimp above or below the crimp groove .... OAL number is not that relevant in this instance and is not chiseled in stone ...adjust OAL to get case mouth/crimp in the crimp groove/cannelure .

Start low with powder charge (Speer shows 22.0 grs. H-110 as starting ) and work up slowly to max. load.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:34 PM
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IMO, you'll be fine. Slow burning powders will have less of a pressure spike than slower powders like bullseye, unique, etc. With fast powders, the seating depth will be much more critical. A 1.1 grain charge difference with unique causes a 9000lb jump in cup with a 240gr jacketed bullet. Bullseye would be even more severe. On the other hand, with the same bullet, a charge with 2400 can range from 18gr to 22.5 grains. Of course pressure goes up, but it is way more gradual (pressure behind the curve) and still within acceptable limits.
This is all my opinion and not necessarily fact. It is based on my 40 years of loading this cartridge for both hunting and plinking.

Last edited by rays44; 05-11-2020 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:41 PM
typetwelve typetwelve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Are they the JSP bullets? Do they have a cannelure??


I can not tell from this picture? If that line is a cannelure, just load to that.


Roze Distribution: 44 Mag 240 Gr JSP $ per 1000
Yes, they do have a cannelure. I was paying more attention to the projectile depth below it as it has significantly less case fill than a 240g XTP.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typetwelve View Post
Yes, they do have a cannelure. I was paying more attention to the projectile depth below it as it has significantly less case fill than a 240g XTP.

The cannelure is there for a reason. Load to the middle of that using a start load of of powders other than H110. Which is pretty much a all or nothing powder. Try some 2400 if you have it, and work up.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rays44 View Post
IMO, you'll be fine. Slow burning powders will have less of a pressure spike than slower powders like bullseye, unique, etc. With fast powders, the seating depth will be much more critical. A 1.1 grain charge difference with unique causes a 9000lb jump in cup with a 240gr jacketed bullet. Bullseye would be even more severe. On the other hand, with the same bullet, a charge with 2400 can range from 18gr to 22.5 grains. Of course pressure goes up, but it is way more gradual (pressure behind the curve) and still within acceptable limits.
This is all my opinion and not necessarily fact. It is based on my 40 years of loading this cartridge for both hunting and plinking.

It is fact and good advice. It's hard to blow things up with the really slow powders compared to the fast ones.
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
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It is fact and good advice. It's hard to blow things up with the really slow powders compared to the fast ones.
A friend of mine blew his Glock in 45acp using reloads from a local supplier. I asked what the load was and pulled a few to confirm his reply. The load was a mere 1.5gr of bullseye over max.
Back in the day, we loaded Casulls, basically running out of case capacity with slow burning powders. Not even pressure signs on the brass!
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:58 PM
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First off You do not mention the gun You will be shooting there loads in. The H110 loads You list are heavy and not recommended for sustained use in a S&W. My load for My Super Red Hawk and only My gun is 25.5 H110 and a Hornaday 240 gr XTP or the 240 silhouette.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:41 PM
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+1, on using the "Can" on the bullet to set your OAL.

Since less of the bullet is entering the case, it will have Less pressure, than the XTP style bullet, which is good.

Anything that gives less pressure with H110 powder, is a good thing.

Starting with the lowest load is always a good thing with a new load in a weapon. If the load works out, you can increase the powder amount if you are not happy with the first results.

I have found that a 100% full load is not always the most accurate and it also beats the heck out of you and the weapon.

Have fun and stay safe.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 05-11-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:42 PM
typetwelve typetwelve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1918a2 View Post
First off You do not mention the gun You will be shooting there loads in. The H110 loads You list are heavy and not recommended for sustained use in a S&W. My load for My Super Red Hawk and only My gun is 25.5 H110 and a Hornaday 240 gr XTP or the 240 silhouette.
I have a Super redhawk and Henry Big Boy carbine. I've yet to run the 240g through the Henry, but I've taken 240g XTPs to 24g of H110 and that's all the further I care to take them.
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:04 PM
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You're way over thinking this issue. Seat your bullets to the cannelure,
crimp and don't worry about OAL. Use a magnum primer and 24.0-24.5
grs of 296/H110 and you have a standard full power load that's safe in
any gun that's factory chambered for the .44 mag. Full power handloads
for the .44 mag are not "hot" loads with slow powders like 296/H110.
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:07 PM
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I've shot around 5,000 of the zero 240gr JSPs - mostly in the new S&W M69s. Didn't realize I shot that many until I looked in the garage for some that I thought I had -- all gone form a order of 1,000 then 4,000.

Mostly used 23.5 - 24.0gr H110 w/CCI350s and 20.5gr A2400 with standard primers - all crimped in "can" using Fed, Starline and Top Brass cases - on my 8th loading and primer pockets are still tight, but starting to get some split case mouths where brass is worked the most from crimping.

At 68 deg F and 5 long paces from the muzzzle
20.5gr 2400 2.75" M69 ........ Did not Chrono
20.5gr 2400 4.25" M69 ........ 1,173 fps avg
20.5gr 2400 7.5" RSRH ........ 1,329 fps avg

23.5gr H110 2.75" M69 ........ 1,126 fps avg
23.5gr H110 4.25" M69 ........ 1,230 fps avg
23.5gr H110 7.5" RSRH ........ 1,413 fps avg

Last edited by Paul105; 05-11-2020 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 05-11-2020, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul105 View Post
I've shot around 5,000 of the zero 240gr JSPs - mostly in the new S&W M69s. Didn't realize I shot that many until I looked in the garage for some that I thought I had -- all gone form a order of 1,000 then 4,000.

Mostly used 23.5 - 24.0gr H110 w/CCI350s and 20.5gr A2400 with standard primers - all crimped in "can" using Fed, Starline and Top Brass cases - on my 8th loading and primer pockets are still tight, but starting to get some split case mouths where brass is worked the most from crimping.

At 68 deg F and 5 long paces from the muzzzle
20.5gr 2400 2.75" M69 ........ Did not Chrono
20.5gr 2400 4.25" M69 ........ 1,173 fps avg
20.5gr 2400 7.5" RSRH ........ 1,329 fps avg

23.5gr H110 2.75" M69 ........ 1,126 fps avg
23.5gr H110 4.25" M69 ........ 1,230 fps avg
23.5gr H110 7.5" RSRH ........ 1,413 fps avg
5k rounds of .44 mag . Iím impressed.
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Old 05-12-2020, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typetwelve View Post
Yes, they do have a cannelure. I was paying more attention to the projectile depth below it as it has significantly less case fill than a 240g XTP.
Not from what my volume calculator shows.

The .4312" Zero 240gr JSP seated to the cannelure nets a COAL= 1.560" with .358" of the bullet inside the case & using 34.1% in volume.

The .4300" 240gr XTP seated to the cannelure nets a COAL= 1.600" with .367" of the bullet inside the case & using 34.9% in volume.

The BOAL" of the HDY XTP is (.700").

The BOAL" (.649") of the Zero bullets are shorter, overall, because they're not hollow-points.

Seat to the cannelure, & as always, slowly work up from your starting load to a max for your pistol.

In this case the differences between the two aren't significant.

.

PS: I really like the Zero Bullets but for my revolvers with tighter throats (.4285-.4290") I like to run the Zero bullets thru a .429" Lee Push-Thru sizer die which knocks them down to .4302" dia. They sh◘◘t great.

.



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