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  #1  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:37 PM
richrd richrd is offline
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Picked up a 929, now if I can find components, will try to load for steel shdoesn't? Will probably use Missouri bullet co. I,very done a lot of loading but never 9,s

Any tips on what works and what doesnt?

Thanks
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:08 PM
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Check the Bullseye Forum and Brian Enos forum. They have lots of info. I've loaded about every pistol cartridge from .32 to .45 and 9mm is a PITA .
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:31 PM
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I load 124 grain plated fmj from Xtreme Bullets using 4.2 grains HP38. Meters like sand and is dead on every time. Thatís a mid level load. Data says 3.9 to 4.4 grains.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:01 PM
cds43016 cds43016 is offline
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I have a 986.

The coated bullet loads that that shoot fine in my four other 9mm guns lead and are not accurate in the 986.

The problem is that the chamber throats on my 986 are not true 9mm but are .357+. 9mm is .355.

I have not slugged the barrel, but I would bet it is .357 not .355. Smith & Wesson took the cheap way out.

If I load 358 coated bullets for the 986, accuracy improves and leading disappears.

This adds some loading complexity in seating the bullet without shaving lead.

The chamber throats are easy to check. Just drop a .355 or .356 bullet in the chamber throat and see if it falls through. If it does, you need the larger bullet. The chamber throats on my 986 and 686 seem identical.

I read of similar issues with the 929.

Last edited by cds43016; 05-12-2020 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 05-13-2020, 11:33 AM
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If you need to check your barrel dia.

Look around.
Some coated 9mm bullet makers will send you a sample three pack of 150 bullets.......

.356, .357 and .358 dia, 125gr bullets (example) for you to test in your weapon, before making a 500 count deal. (Eggleston)

Good luck.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 05-13-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 05-13-2020, 12:37 PM
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Good info above so just a thought or two; I normally recommend a newer reloader (or one new to a specific cartridge) to start with a tried and true (popular) load right out their reloading manual. In case of the 9mm, I'd say a 124/125 gr FMJ with a medium pistol powder for approx 1,000 fps. After a few hundred rounds getting the hang of the 9mm (chambering, plunk test for OAL etc.) then move on to lighter or heavier bullets, faster powders and maybe cast or PCed bullets. The 9mm can be a "troublesome" round as noted above but K.I.S.S. will get you good accurate ammo every time...

FWIW, my 9mm reloading came along after 30 years of revolver and 45 ACP reloading and with my experience I didn't have a lot of problems, but there were certainly differences I had to get used to...
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Old 05-13-2020, 12:56 PM
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Like you, I am just starting with 9mm. After googling and reading lots of discussions, I noticed that a number of people have suggested that separating your brass by headstamp is a good idea for 9mm, because it is a small volume high pressure case and case volume varies between brands (which will affect your pressure level). So sticking with one brand of brass will remove a variable from the equation.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:13 PM
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The only problem I ran into was 380 brass, I used to pick up a lot of 9mm range brass. Even after cleaning and checking head stamps, twice I loaded 380 brass that slipped in. Never noticed until I picked up the brass at the range after shooting. I use a Dillon Square Deal and the overall length was the same as 9 mm. I shot it, it functioned fine but I look closer before and double check after reloading.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:40 PM
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My 9mm's see a lot of cast. I tend to run them slower than jacketed would as I am mostly just punching paper. Best accuracy for me is around 1100 fps.
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:59 PM
cds43016 cds43016 is offline
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I donít use range brass for 9mm.

9mm chambers are all over the place. Some chambers are way oversize, and some guns have unsupported chambers. This makes it difficult to size the brass down far enough to get it to chamber in all guns. Generically, this is referred to as the Glock bulge.

Brass is also all over the place in terms of quality. Some is plain junk.

All my guns have standard and supported chambers. Too many range brass rounds fail the plunk test.

I buy one brass brand (Federal) and only use it in my guns. I buy factory ammo (itís cheap), mark the brass with a marker and only pick up that brass for reloading. Very few rounds fail the plunk test and I know the brass quality is good. I can also track how many times the brass has been fired.

In all my guns, other than the 986, I load 125 .356 SNS RN coated bullets over 4.1 grains of 231. This is like the load used by kbm6893.

Bayou .358 124 RN coated bullets are used for the 986 with the same load. Loading for the 986 is somewhat more complex due the increased bullet diameter.

I was hoping to use one bullet for all my guns. The .358 bullets shoot fine in all my 9 mm guns expect one. .358 bullets will occasional jam up on the feed ramp on my PM9. The round chambers it just hangs up. Rare but it happens. I never had a problem with .356 bullets (except leading and poor accuracy in my 986). Therefore, one load two bullets.

Even factory FMJ ammo in my 986 isnít that accurate. I think the factory .355 bullets bounce around in the 986.

The 986 is a reloaderís gun, as I think is the 929.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:28 PM
Nick B Nick B is offline
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I load and shoot thousands of 9mm.
From my chrono notes:
CZ Shadow 2
Precision Delta 124 grain FMJ
4.0 of Tite Group : 1069 FPS average
4.2 of Tite Group : 1118 FPS average
Precision Delta 147 grain FMJ
3.6 grains of Tite Group : 945 FPS average
The 124 FMJ are $88.00 per 1k shipped .
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Old 05-13-2020, 05:09 PM
Moe Mentum Moe Mentum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick B View Post
I load and shoot thousands of 9mm.
From my chrono notes:
CZ Shadow 2
Precision Delta 124 grain FMJ
4.0 of Tite Group : 1069 FPS average
4.2 of Tite Group : 1118 FPS average
Precision Delta 147 grain FMJ
3.6 grains of Tite Group : 945 FPS average
The 124 FMJ are $88.00 per 1k shipped .
They are 89.00 per 1k if you buy 2k
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:14 PM
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9mm + cast = PITA . If you shoot at limited range it'll give usable loads . If you're looking to cut the X ring out of a 50yd SF target not so much . If one wants the later it requires new or 1X fired cases , jacketed bullets , mag primer & use of 4 - 5 powders that'll give that type of accuracy .
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:45 PM
cds43016 cds43016 is offline
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One more plug for not using range brass especially in a 986 or 929.

I had problems with some brands of brass not playing well with my moon clips. The brass was either hard to load or remove from the moon clips.

Find a brand of brass that works and stay with it. Life is too short for needless problems.

Last edited by cds43016; 05-13-2020 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick B View Post
I load and shoot thousands of 9mm.
From my chrono notes:
CZ Shadow 2
Precision Delta 124 grain FMJ
4.0 of Tite Group : 1069 FPS average
4.2 of Tite Group : 1118 FPS average
Precision Delta 147 grain FMJ
3.6 grains of Tite Group : 945 FPS average
The 124 FMJ are $88.00 per 1k shipped .
Interesting. I've just switched to Titegroup for my 9mm loads and chronoed a few test rounds the other day I was using 4.3 gr with 115 gr FMJ bullets and averaged 1150 FPS which is on the hot side of things so I intend to try another batch with 4.1 gr.

Is that $88/k price recent? The best I've found on 115's is $95/k shipped now. Those same bullets were $79/k pre-panic.
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:03 AM
Nick B Nick B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
Interesting. I've just switched to Titegroup for my 9mm loads and chronoed a few test rounds the other day I was using 4.3 gr with 115 gr FMJ bullets and averaged 1150 FPS which is on the hot side of things so I intend to try another batch with 4.1 gr.

Is that $88/k price recent? The best I've found on 115's is $95/k shipped now. Those same bullets were $79/k pre-panic.
Precision Deltaís current prices :
115 FMJ is $83.00 per 1k shipped for 2k or more .
124 FMJ is $88.00 per 1k shipped for 2k or more .
Their prices are cheaper when you order 2k or more at a time . These are true jacketed bullets and not just plated .
Shipping included . Iíve found that the 124 grain seems to be a little more accurate but your results may vary .
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:55 AM
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I just finished loading my first 50 9mm yesterday... and in the mail came a RCBS case gauge I had ordered! Ran all 50 thru it, 5 stuck a little and on closer inspection had a slight bulge at the bottom that sizing didn't take out. They'll probably work, but now it won't be a surprise. I had already plunk-tested a random sampling, mostly to be sure my dimensions were workable.

I'm sold... get a case gauge!
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:57 AM
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I load 9mm cast. It's very doable but there are things to be aware of.
Think experiment.
Don't buy a boatload of bullets at first. Buy small lots till you find what works.
Then try different combinations till you find what works.
I've settled on a 95 grain flatnose bullet designed for the 380. I cast my own. I use a light charge of Unique. I also use range brass. I have to seat everything deeply or it won't chamber in my gun.
Its very satisfying when you develop a combination that works. Lately I've been reloading more 9mm than anything else. I encourage you to experiment with your project.

edit: I just realized you're loading for a revolver.

Last edited by max503; 05-14-2020 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:06 AM
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I've found that jacketed hollowpoint bullets shoot accurately when driven very fast. Coated lead bullets can produce good accuracy with fairly light charges. Jacketed bullets can be taper crimped, while coated bullets shoot most accurately with little or no crimp (as long as the bullet stays in the case). I do my accuracy testing at 25 yards. If you don't plan on testing at that range or greater, just about any load, as long as it will function reliably, will work.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:41 AM
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I have reloaded a few thousand 9mm, all on the Lee Classic Turret.
I don't sort hulls, except smashed or really dirty ones from the range. Take your time, load a small batch to begin with.

When you are completely though with the reloading, plunk test every round before you put them away.

Be safe and shoot straight.

Have a blessed day,

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Old 05-14-2020, 12:26 PM
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I have loaded thousands of 9mm, and it has presented some challenges that I havenít experienced with other calibers.

There are good comments and advice posted here.

But the OP is taking about a 929 eight shot 9mm revolver that uses moon clips and has a barrel and chamber throats of a .357 mag.

My experience with the 986 (a sibling of the 929) has been much different than loading for my 9mm pistols.

Loading for my 986 required a lot more work figuring out how to produce accurate, reliable and lead free loads. At times it was a study in frustration, much more than loading for my pistols.

But it can be done.
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Old 05-14-2020, 05:24 PM
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Iím sure there are others that have a lot more experience loading a 929 than I. This is some of what I learned loading for its cousin the 986. I hope this helps.

First you need to find the size of the cylinder throats. If you donít have specialty tools for this, use .356, .357 and .358 sized bullets. Nevada ED in the post above points out how to get samples. If you shoot coated bullets you want the first bullet that doesnít drop through the cylinder. In my case with the 986 .357 fell through, .358 did not. My cylinder throat is .357+. You could slug the barrel, but unless the barrel is way out of spec, the cylinder throats will control your bullet size. I read in this form and others itís probably .357. This is the reason I think the gun is inaccurate with factory 9 mm ammo. Your gun may be different. My only experience with this is my 986 and what I read.

Find some quality noon clips. I got mine from TK custom. I also use a BMT Mooner to load and unload the clips. It works great.

Get some quality brass. Be sure the brand works with the moon clips you choose. I had some problems with foreign brass. Normally I would just buy Starline brass but for some reason the brass doesnít like the titanium cylinder of the 929 and 986. Starline doesnít recommend their brass in these guns. They describe hard extraction. I donít know if this is a problem with other brands but Federal works for me both with extraction and moon clips.

A reloading complication in my case was getting a .358 bullet in a case designed for .355 without damaging the case or the bullet and still have the completed round fit in the chamber. At the time I posted a tread here to see how best do that. The link is here.

357 Diameter Coated Bullets for a 986?

After that, normal reloading practice applies. Use published loads from loading manuals or powder manufacturers, use a case gauge to test your completed rounds (mine go in OK but are a bit harder to get out than .356 bullets Ė but still ok) and be safe.

Good Luck!
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:36 PM
Moe Mentum Moe Mentum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
Interesting. I've just switched to Titegroup for my 9mm loads and chronoed a few test rounds the other day I was using 4.3 gr with 115 gr FMJ bullets and averaged 1150 FPS which is on the hot side of things so I intend to try another batch with 4.1 gr.

Is that $88/k price recent? The best I've found on 115's is $95/k shipped now. Those same bullets were $79/k pre-panic.
That's $89 per 1k, but you must buy 2K to get that price, so you will have to spend $188.00 on 2k....which comes to $89 per 1K
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:03 PM
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You didnt say what press but lead bullets are best loaded with a M style expander. Things also go smoother seating & crimping in separate steps. You dont want to be shaving lead.
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:49 PM
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9mm's a joy to reload, EASY! Forget all the BS, 4.0grs Bullseye will do the trick with ANY 115/124gr bullet. ENJOY!
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:34 AM
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9mm's a joy to reload, EASY! Forget all the BS, 4.0grs Bullseye will do the trick with ANY 115/124gr bullet. ENJOY!
So true, as long as, your standards for accuracy are low and they are for most shooters. The current popular distances for "accuracy" testing seem to be 7 or 10 yards.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick B View Post
Precision Deltaís current prices :
115 FMJ is $83.00 per 1k shipped for 2k or more .
124 FMJ is $88.00 per 1k shipped for 2k or more .
Their prices are cheaper when you order 2k or more at a time . These are true jacketed bullets and not just plated .
Shipping included . Iíve found that the 124 grain seems to be a little more accurate but your results may vary .
Thank you. I hadn't heard of Precision Delta before but now have them in my bookmarks list for reloading supply vendors.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:48 AM
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Just sayin'....
Leading is easily removed by pulling a wad of Chore Boy Copper Scouring Pad through the bore and cylinders with a length of string trimmer cord. Make sure you get the Chore Boy Copper pads and not the generic Copper Coated pads.

Last edited by max503; 05-15-2020 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
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Just sayin'....
Leading is easily removed by pulling a wad of Chore Boy Copper Scouring Pad through the bore and cylinders with a length of string trimmer cord. Make sure you get the Chore Boy Copper pads and not the generic Copper Coated pads.
Chore Boy works.

But the best way to eliminate leading is not to have any leading in the first place by using bullets properly fitted to the gun.

Fitted bullets also greatly improves accuracy in my 986.
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:10 AM
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I load strictly lead in my 9mm, and I never found reloading it any different than .45 ACP or 9mm Mak I reload.
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
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Don't buy a boatload of bullets at first. Buy small lots till you find what works.
Amazing advice for any new loader...I wish someone would have told me that.

As for loading 9mm...perhaps I'm just lucky, I really don't know. I've loaded Hornady offerings (like HAP and XTP), Missouri's Hi-Tek 9mm parabellum, and mostly 115g Berry's plated and not once have I had a single issue, ever. I've loaded them with all kinds of powder as well, Tightgroup, Acc N07, Sport Pistol, HP-38, W231, Bullseye...no issues with any of them.

I've also always loaded with used brass vs new. I've done all my 9mm loading on my Dillon 550 using their 9mm dies and again, no problems yet.
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:55 AM
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I too have no problem loading 9 mm for my pistols (4). Once itís set up, there is no difference between 9 mm loading and any other pistol caliber as long as you use quality components.

The problem the OP faces is that he is loading for a revolver that is not a true 9mm. Itís a 357 Mag (barrel and chamber throat diameter) that is set up to load 9mm cartridges with moon clips.

To avoid leading and accuracy problems, extra steps need to be taken to find a good load. Once found and set up, there is also no difference than any other. The trick is finding the combination of components and dies to create good loads.

Loading for a 929 or 986 is not the easiest place to be introduced to 9mm loading.

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Old 05-15-2020, 12:26 PM
typetwelve typetwelve is offline
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I too have no problem loading 9 mm for my pistols (4). Once itís set up, there is no difference between 9 mm loading and any other pistol caliber as long as you use quality components.

The problem the OP faces is that he is loading for a revolver that is not a true 9mm. Itís a 357 Mag (barrel and chamber throat diameter) that is set up to load 9mm cartridges with moon clips.

To avoid leading and accuracy problems, extra steps need to be taken to find a good load. Once found and set up, there is also no difference than any other. The trick is finding the combination of components and dies to create good loads.

Loading for a 929 or 986 is not the easiest place to be introduced to 9mm loading.
I don't have either of those revolvers, but I do have a Charter Arms Pitbull in 9mm and have loaded for that.

About the only issues that it has is pretty severe crimp jump, even with factory ammo. I was having weird accuracy issues as I would run through a cylinder (it holds 5, BTW) so I ran some factory ammo, pulling the fifth round unfired after firing the other four, sure enough, lots of crimp-jump and depending on the brand, a LOT of crimp jump. Enough so that it was throwing off the accuracy of the round due to having less cart pressure.

Besides that? Eh...I even loaded some 145g LRN that I use for 38 spcl and ran that through the Charter...shot just fine (not that I'm recommending doing that).

I'm now to the point where I'm following the "KISS" approach with 9mm. I load 115g Berry's RN over Tightgroup with Winchester primers on my 550...no issues.
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  #34  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:13 PM
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Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
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To prevent leading and also bullet set back..........

you had a good idea to try the Missouri bullet.........

mostly if it is coated and with the deep Cannelure for crimping for your revolver.

Give the 125gr sample package a try for your first venture and let us know how things turn out.
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  #35  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:10 PM
tejano tejano is offline
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My 2 cents as a 929 owner. FC and WW cases work fine. Federal small pistol primers are the most reliable. Seat the primers down hard. As for bulletsó.357 jacketed/plated and .358 lead (coated or uncoated). I like Titegroup for target work.

Last edited by tejano; 05-18-2020 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:03 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tejano View Post
My 2 cents as a 929 owner. FC and WW cases work fine. Federal small pistol primers are the most reliable. Seat the primers down hard. As for bulletsó.357 jacketed/plated and .358 lead (coated or uncoated). I like Titegroup for target work.
Very interesting post. I agree with almost everything except Federal ammo. I bought several cases of Federal 147gr plated bullets ammo to shoot in my 929. The moonclipped brass would stick in the chambers very hard. I solved the immediate problem by running 38 Short Colt ammo in the 929. It runs fine but does blow the brass out noticeably. More recently discovered that used Win, WMA and WCC brass runs in my cylinder with no extraction problems. Note: both WMA and WCC brass have crimped primers. I also plan to reload some used Federal brass to see if it runs OK.
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  #37  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:33 PM
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I also load a range of pistol calibers, and 9mm is my least favorite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodD View Post
Check the Bullseye Forum and Brian Enos forum. They have lots of info. I've loaded about every pistol cartridge from .32 to .45 and 9mm is a PITA .
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:00 PM
342ti 342ti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE Mike View Post
So true, as long as, your standards for accuracy are low and they are for most shooters. The current popular distances for "accuracy" testing seem to be 7 or 10 yards.
Furthest thing from the truth! That 4.0grs Bullseye load yields superior accuracy in EVERY 9mm I own/owned.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:11 PM
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Furthest thing from the truth! That 4.0grs Bullseye load yields superior accuracy in EVERY 9mm I own/owned.
What I question is the selection of bullets not having anything to do with accuracy. Some cast, swaged or coated bullets shoot better than others for me, out of my pistols. 4.0 grains of Alliant Bullseye is my favorite load with certain coated or lead bullets, but for me jacketed bullets give much better accuracy driven much faster with powders like Alliant Power Pistol. When I was seriously competing, I tested a Kidd custom built Beretta Brigadier 92FS with Bar Sto barrel and from a machine rest at 50 yards to come to the conclusions about 9mm jacketed bullets driven fast. 2" 10 shot groups were common. These days, I just shoot for fun and test at 25 yards with coated bullets. 1" groups with coated bullets and 4.0 grains of Bullseye are possible out of my Sig P320 pistols.

Last edited by BE Mike; 05-20-2020 at 12:53 PM.
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  #40  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:49 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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The big hold up with getting precision accuracy from the 9mm was the lack of SAAMI spec'd barrels until S&W got in the game in the 60's. The "go to" bullet was the 115 grain. When 50 yard accuracy was required reloaders were in trouble trying to get velocity without over pressure with available canister powders.

Once heavier bullets ie. 147 grain and slower powders became available 50 yard accuracy began to tighten up. Fast forward and the 9mm is just as accurate as any other caliber/bullet and is favored in lots of venues.

The issues in the OP is more about 986 geometry than the 9mm round.

Google: "Reloading for the 9mm revolver"

Most problems are related to the forcing cone and chamber dimensions.

Recognizing that that .357 diameter bullets may be required is the first step.

Personally I cast .358 and size .357 135 grain LRNFP NOE bullets at around 10 BHN which to some is "soft"! I also use a soft lube. I clean my barrels with a rolled up paper towel, no leading at all. I get stellar accuracy in 9mm, 38 Super and 38 Spl. I use mostly Win and Fed brass, loaded on Dillon presses. Velocity for 9mm and 38 Sup 1000 and 38 Spl. 875 FPS.

Reloading is as much an art as a science!

Last edited by jjfitch; 05-19-2020 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:31 PM
Turn4811 Turn4811 is offline
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My experience: I load and shoot about 9k of 9mm a year and have averaged within 1 to 2k of that for the past 3 years with a Colt Govt model and prior to that a 92AF INOX for many years.

Bullets: For the past four years Bayou's coated 120 and 124 have been the primary choice for about 80% with the remaining some brand of 124gr FMJ. I have had too many issues with plated bullets and the coated bullets work better and are more accurate.

Cases: Amerc, Maxxtech, Freedom Munitions, Xtreme, and Ammoland had the stepped cases for a while. Because of these I started sorting my brass about 14 years ago. I added TulAmmo, Wolf, B-West, SK, TCW, and TPZ as headstamps that get immediately tossed in the recycle bin - they all are very soft brass. I know some people that have loaded these headstamps but the headaches they can cause is just not worth it.

I will load Agila, CBC, and Perfecta brass once to be used at an indoor range that frowns on policing your own brass. I have had an Agila case separate at the knurling on about the 5th reload. The CBC and Perfecta primer pocket gets too loose to hold a primer after the third or fourth reloading.

My preference for brass is Starline, WIN, Hornady, FC, RP, Speer, Blazer, S&B, PMC, WWC, and Geco. I load in sorted lots.

Powder: What are you shooting? Bullseye has been around 120+years and won many competitions. I have used Bullseye, Blue Dot, AA-#7, Power Pistol, Herco, N-340, HP-38, HS-6, Unique, Universal, 231, and CFEpistol. All will work but some have characteristics that may not be acceptable (dirty, unburnt powders, smoke, or flash). I am currently on a CFEpistol kick (3 years) as it is very clean burning and gives me what I want.

Primers: CCI is my standard, S&B has identical characteristics but is usually 2/3 the price of CCI if you can find it. Winchester is more expensive than CCI but I can get less deviation in the speed and tighter groups but it requires its own load workup. No need for magnum primers.

I load on a Dillon 550B and work up new loads on a RockChucker
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