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Old 05-20-2020, 09:53 PM
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Default 223 primer pockets problems

This last week I have been working on prepping some 5.56 cases. I have broken or bent 4 depriming pins. I think I finally found the problem. I was just messing around and thought I would flatten one a piece of brass polish it up and use it as and inlay in a pistol grip. What I found was a big surprise the brass had a berdan pocket and was stamped on the case 223 Remington. I sorted through about 25 pieces and found 6 more 223 Remington. I can't remember ever hearing 223 case were Berdan pockets or where I got them. I hope this solves the problem. All the brass I have prepped so far is all once fired 5.56 lake city brass.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:36 PM
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You probably got it as range pickup (maybe by mistake).

It didn't come from a US ammo company, but the world is full of those that aren't.

The really bad case of Berdan primers was back around Y2K. A friend had bought M-1 Carbine ammo shot and cleaned his M-1. A month later he went to start reloading the brass, and it had turned green. (a sure sigh of mercury based corrosive primer!) The head stamp was LC 54. He cut one open and it was Berdan Primed! NO AMERICAN AMMO FOR M-1 CARBINE HAS EVER BEEN CORRISIVE PRIMED OR BERDAN PRIMED! It turns out this ammo came from China! The boxes are typical LC ammo boxes -brown cardboard with black printing, but hidden is a tiny Made in China.

I loaded 308 3 weeks ago, the second case I sized bent the stem and turned the decapping pin into a "J". Of 469 308 brass, 3 were Berdan primed, 1996 Hertenburg, otherwise great ammo, but not reloadable! They must have ended up with my LC68Match when I was policing my brass!

Ivan
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:17 PM
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All my .223 brass is range pickup. I have found a few berdan primed .223. I just feel when itís harder than it should be to pop the primer and then stop and toss the case.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:14 AM
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Never in my life have I run across a Berdan-primed case. Lucky I guess. Now you're making me paranoid.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:19 AM
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I have found several .308 berdan primed. Seems like I have found some .223 steel case that was berdan primed also. Any case I don't recognize, I inspect the flashhole inside the brass before depriming.

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Old 05-21-2020, 07:40 AM
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But what was the headstamp symbol.? Is it even brass or brass colored steel?

Why are you mixing 5.56 with 223 Rem. At least keep those separated not necessarily buy head stamp.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:45 AM
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I make it a habit to look down into every case and count the number of holes ... just no way to know who made what .
I have found 30-06 , 5.56 , 223 , 7.62 and 308 Winchester with the two little holes - Berdan primers ... Do Not Assume Anything , look into the case and verify with your eyeball . Amazing little tool that will tell all .
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:47 AM
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But what was the headstamp symbol.? Is it even brass or brass colored steel?

Why are you mixing 5.56 with 223 Rem. At least keep those separated not necessarily buy head stamp.
I have been mixing & loading 556/223 for 25 years through multiple AR's......The sky ain't "fallin". Neither is id wufu virus.....And neither is mixing the brass a problem.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:50 PM
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But what was the headstamp symbol.? Is it even brass or brass colored steel?

Why are you mixing 5.56 with 223 Rem. At least keep those separated not necessarily buy head stamp.
I just toss anything that isn't LC into a can and load only LC which is all 5.56. I use .223 load data for both Mini-14 and .223 bolt rifles. No problems loading down or using lighter bullets. Both 1/9 twist. AR may be 1/7 but I don't own any.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:55 PM
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I use LC for loads for the autos and some FC. I use r-p .223 headstamp in my Contender single shot, that way I can neck size it. Makes it easy to dedicate for particular guns.

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Old 05-21-2020, 01:07 PM
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I have been mixing & loading 556/223 for 25 years through multiple AR's......The sky ain't "fallin". Neither is id wufu virus.....And neither is mixing the brass a problem.
I don't recall that the OP said what rifle he was loading for. You made the assumption he's loading for an AR. Probably not a big deal if he is but there's a big difference between an AR and a .223 bolt rifle. Consistent precision isn't possible if you mix range brass, or any brass.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:14 PM
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I use r-p .223 headstamp in my Contender single shot, that way I can neck size it. Makes it easy to dedicate for particular guns. Rosewood
When I had a Super 14" 223 Contender, I bought 10 boxes of Federal commercial brass, a brick of primers (CCI BR4) and 2 cans of powder (IMR 4227). I used a marker and marked them what gun they went to (same for my Rem 700 223). That way I had the exact same load for as long as I owned the gun. When those guns moved on, the left over primers and powder, went to the next "Special Project". The brass went into the AR project of 20,000!

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Old 05-21-2020, 01:23 PM
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When I had a Super 14" 223 Contender, I bought 10 boxes of Federal commercial brass, a brick of primers (CCI BR4) and 2 cans of powder (IMR 4227). I used a marker and marked them what gun they went to (same for my Rem 700 223). That way I had the exact same load for as long as I owned the gun. When those guns moved on, the left over primers and powder, went to the next "Special Project". The brass went into the AR project of 20,000!

Ivan
IMR4227 in .223? Interesting. I have been using H322 as it got better velocity and less muzzle blast than H335 in the 14". How did the IMR work for you? I bet it was even less muzzle blast.


Edit: found reload data for IMR4227 in my Lyman pistol Manual under the TC section. I bet that would be a great powder to use in the short barrel AR pistols to reduce muzzle blast.

Rosewood

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Old 05-21-2020, 07:46 PM
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If it don't feel right, don't force it.... my father taught me that many many years ago.... still works for me today... never broke or bent a decapping pin using this rule of thumb.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:38 PM
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I load mass quantities of 9mm on my Dillon 650.

There has been a surprisingly large number of berdan primed cases get through the sorting and into the case feeder. I usually catch them on the primer seating step when the new primer doesn't want to seat smoothly. Dillon decapping pin just pushes right through the center of the berdan case head like it's not even there.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:06 PM
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I don't know where the base came from, the head stamp said 223 Remington. no other information. all were shoot from a Rock River M4 carbine. I sold it. I am fill length sizing to use in my Mini 14. As was suggested the may have been range pick up. I all my brass is LC 12 or 13. I still have 1700 round that are unfired from the same lots. I am not a hunter or completive shooter just a plinker, But I want good ammo.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:00 PM
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IMR4227 in .223? Interesting. I have been using H322 as it got better velocity and less muzzle blast than H335 in the 14". How did the IMR work for you? I bet it was even less muzzle blast.
Edit: found reload data for IMR4227 in my Lyman pistol Manual under the TC section. I bet that would be a great powder to use in the short barrel AR pistols to reduce muzzle blast. Rosewood
H 4227 is all they make now. It will be on the slow side. I use it in my AR chambered in 300 Black Out for subsonic 220 grain loads. Both 4227's are famous as fast burning, low pressure, and very consistent. It was THE shutzen-fest powder in America!

How did it do in a contender? Ask someone that has one that shoots well, mine was not that good. My 7 TCU barrel is far more accurate and my 10" 22 Hornet and 10" 221 Fireball barrels are all fantastic! I use H 4227 in my 10" Contenders. In 221 with 50 grain Combined Technologies Ballistic tip, absolutely nasty on ground hogs! about 2.5" @ 100 yards with my cheap scope and rest.

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Old 05-22-2020, 08:11 AM
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H 4227 is all they make now. It will be on the slow side. I use it in my AR chambered in 300 Black Out for subsonic 220 grain loads. Both 4227's are famous as fast burning, low pressure, and very consistent. It was THE shutzen-fest powder in America!

How did it do in a contender? Ask someone that has one that shoots well, mine was not that good. My 7 TCU barrel is far more accurate and my 10" 22 Hornet and 10" 221 Fireball barrels are all fantastic! I use H 4227 in my 10" Contenders. In 221 with 50 grain Combined Technologies Ballistic tip, absolutely nasty on ground hogs! about 2.5" @ 100 yards with my cheap scope and rest.

Ivan
My 14" .223 contender has turned some 1/2MOA groups when I do my part with the 45 grain sierra and H322. My best shooting TC barrel.

I use it in the 10" 7TCU with cast boolits, shoots quite well and is much less blast than when I tried 10x. I read they took the slower burning of the 2 powders and kept it and quit making the other one. Thought I saw they were keeping IMR name, but I hadn't bought any in about 2 years.

OP, I apologize for hijacking the thread, but we were discussing reloading options for the .223...

Rosewood

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Old 05-22-2020, 08:13 AM
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Not sure how you guys lube your brass, but a trick I figured out with .223 brass, doesn't work on larger cases for some reason.

I take the brass and put it in a gallon zip lock bag. Then I take the Hornady 1 Shot case lube and spray on the cases in the bag. Seal the bag and then massage the cases together through the bag. Works great.

Also found it works great on 9mm brass. I guess since 9mm is tapered instead of straight walled, it seems to have more resistant when resizing than straight walled cases. Really smooths out the loading on the progressive press.

Rosewood

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Old 05-22-2020, 08:56 AM
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I don't know where the base came from, the head stamp said 223 Remington. no other information. all were shoot from a Rock River M4 carbine. I sold it. I am fill length sizing to use in my Mini 14. As was suggested the may have been range pick up. I all my brass is LC 12 or 13. I still have 1700 round that are unfired from the same lots. I am not a hunter or completive shooter just a plinker, But I want good ammo.
No head stamp info other than caliber? My guess is that it was Chinese manufactured.

Since products from China now incur an import tariff in the U.S., Chinese companies are attempting to avoid tariffs via subterfuge. Some clothing has been discovered to have been made in China, but the tags indicated it was made in Vietnam. The clothing was actually shipped from China to Vietnam, then shipped from Vietnam to the U.S. It would not surprise me to find ammo without a manufacturer head stamp to be an attempt to avoid import tariffs.

There is one other possibility. It might have been spook ammo. It is not uncommon for governments to have ammo produced that bears no manufacturer info, just caliber and possibly a production date. This sort of ammo is generally for clandestine uses.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:14 AM
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My 14" .223 contender has turned some 1/2MOA groups when I do my part with the 45 grain sierra and H322. My best shooting TC barrel. Rosewood
T/C 223 barrels were very hit or miss. I bought it used, because previous owner(s) couldn't hit anything with it! I got a great deal on a action and barrel, sold the barrel and was still below 50% cost of an action. Best group that barrel produced was 5" at 50 yards!

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Old 05-22-2020, 10:20 AM
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T/C 223 barrels were very hit or miss. I bought it used, because previous owner(s) couldn't hit anything with it! I got a great deal on a action and barrel, sold the barrel and was still below 50% cost of an action. Best group that barrel produced was 5" at 50 yards!

Ivan
Barrel lug was stretched from hot loads. Original TC offered free replacements.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:39 AM
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Barrel lug was stretched from hot loads. Original TC offered free replacements.
In a .223? Never heard that one. I heard of some of the JD Jones calibers do that.

I bought a 10" 44 mag that would shoot 6" left of the barrel centerline at 25 yards. Figured out the chamber was reamed off center with the bore axis. Sent it to TC/S&W and they replaced it. I asked for a .357 mag bbl instead and that is what I got.

Thanks,

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Old 05-22-2020, 10:41 AM
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T/C 223 barrels were very hit or miss. I bought it used, because previous owner(s) couldn't hit anything with it! I got a great deal on a action and barrel, sold the barrel and was still below 50% cost of an action. Best group that barrel produced was 5" at 50 yards!

Ivan
I have never been able to get any of the rifle barrels to touch some of the pistol barrels on accuracy, either in the Encore or Contender or G2.

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Old 05-22-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
I don't recall that the OP said what rifle he was loading for. You made the assumption he's loading for an AR. Probably not a big deal if he is but there's a big difference between an AR and a .223 bolt rifle. Consistent precision isn't possible if you mix range brass, or any brass.
But accurate enough.....It ain't benchrest shooting
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by carpriver View Post
I don't know where the base came from, the head stamp said 223 Remington. no other information. all were shoot from a Rock River M4 carbine. I sold it. I am fill length sizing to use in my Mini 14. As was suggested the may have been range pick up. I all my brass is LC 12 or 13. I still have 1700 round that are unfired from the same lots. I am not a hunter or completive shooter just a plinker, But I want good ammo.
Does it say RP or Remington? I just deprimed about 400 range pickup this week. I have never run across that in 223 since I started playing with them in the 90s. Does it have a date stamp? Could it be plated steel?
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:14 PM
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But accurate enough.....It ain't benchrest shooting
Probably for most who reload .223/5.56. I don't know anyone who has a precision bolt rifle chambered for .223, except me.

Howa 1500 action with#6 barrel. Built it myself. 1 MOA.

I also shoot a Mini-14 so I know I can't do much to improve the precision. It is what it is.

When there's lead in the air there's hope.
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