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Old 05-23-2020, 08:25 AM
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Default .430 XTP 180 grain minimum velocity

I got in on the good deal that Nick B. found and posted
on 30 Mar 20 for the 44 caliber 180 grain XTPs from
Third Generation Shooting Supply

I didn't know how slow the Hornady XTP's could be shot and
still expand properly. Yesterday I asked Hornady's help desk
and they said minimum of 800 feet per second.

I use Herco powder because during the 2008-16 drought it was
about the only powder I could get.

The 1987 Hercules load data chart has a 44 Special load of 10
grains which yields 1050 fps from a 7.5" barrel.

The 44 Mag load is 13.3 grains for a velocity of 1495 fps.

My recoil tolerance and need for speed has been replaced by
follow up shot accuracy. With that in mind in an attempt
to generate a load suitable for 300 lb varmint class encounters
I settled on 10.2 grains. That should be in the mid 1100 fps
range for a 4" model 29. 300 fps above the minimum speed but
some times you have to cover your bets.

It is a well mannered load. It is accurate and burns clean.

As a comparison, Unique's 44 Special load is 9.5 grains/ 1010 fps.
For 44 Mag it is 13.3 Grains/ 1495 fps.
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:48 AM
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Thanks for the info!
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:50 AM
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My 9th Edition Hornady manual lists the upper end suggested speed of this bullet at 1400 ft/sec, FYI. The suggested speed ranges of their bullets can be found in their manuals in the section describing all their bullets.

I recently loaded those same bullets with 16.0 grains of Blue Dot with a WLP primer and they chronoed at an average of 1418 ft/sec out of a 6 1/2" barrel 629-3 Classic. Recoil was fairly stout but not real abusive of my 64 year old hands and arm. Temps were in the high 80's that day, for reference.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:15 AM
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Is your load loaded in special cases or magnum cases? I have been loading that bullet over American Select in special cases. I haven't been chronoing them but the book suggests around 950fps. I also have an 8 lb jug of Herco in the cabinet, so I may give your load a try.

I am shooting them out of a 4" 624.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:07 AM
mr.revolverguy mr.revolverguy is offline
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I am truly confused where does Hornady list in their manuals the suggested upper speeds? I feel stupid asking this since I have everyone of their manuals published.

On the 180gr xtp Hornady Manual 10 they are pushing the 180gr xtp to 1700fps with IMR800X

I have some loaded up last night to about 1500fps but going to shoot it out of an 8inch barrel and see what it does in clear ballistics gel

Last edited by mr.revolverguy; 05-23-2020 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:50 PM
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tominboise, I am shooting these out of 44mag cases.

Here's a link to castpics free manual section.

Freebie manuals

They have loads for powders that aren't cool anymore. AKA
flaming dirts "unique', ugly cousin "herco".

With the 10.2 grain load there is about 1/4 of air space
between the powder and bullet in 44 special cases. And
"amazingly" about 1/2" of space in the 44mag brass.

mr.revolverguy, I don't think they publish a top end velocity
load. You might have to send them an email.

My goal in this situation was to generate a decent load that
would use up a coffee can full of brass.

3rd Gen is sold out now. I wish I'd bought more of them
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:21 PM
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YeAh I seriously doubt that bullet expands down to 800fps. It is designed for vel to 1400-1500fps. At 1100fps, should do well on thin skinned targets.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:28 PM
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Here's a chart showing XTP performance velocities. Also, Lucky Gunner's 10mm ballistics test. They didn't do a 44 Mag gel test, but did do 10mm in 180gn XTP. Just a WAG but the 180XTP in 44 and 10mm should be similar enough to be very close in performance. Going from the 10mm ballistics that LG did on the 180XTP, I'd say that serger is probably right in the sweet spot with that mid 1100fps 44 load.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:42 PM
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If a125gr JHP Gold Dot will not even start to expand in my J frame 38 special at 812 fps............

I doubt very much, that the heavier copper jacket on that XTP Hornady bullet will start to peal back, even at 900fps.

The 38 special JHP +P ammo has a reason to do 950fps, over the standard loads, for SD use.

I would try a minimum of 950fps as a starting load, to make sure the bullets work 100%, each time.
Noting worse than shooting a .44 FMJ bullet in a SD operation.

Good loading.
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.revolverguy View Post
I am truly confused where does Hornady list in their manuals the suggested upper speeds? I feel stupid asking this since I have everyone of their manuals published.

On the 180gr xtp Hornady Manual 10 they are pushing the 180gr xtp to 1700fps with IMR800X

I have some loaded up last night to about 1500fps but going to shoot it out of an 8inch barrel and see what it does in clear ballistics gel
In the 9th Edition, the bullets are described and speeds given in the section of the manual called "The Complete Hornady Bullet Guide", starting on page 83 (Title page). The rifle bullets are first, followed by the handgun bullets.

I think Hornady must have used a thinner jacket with these 180's. Because the speed ratings they give for the heavier bullets are all higher than for the 180 XTP. The 210 is rated 750-1650, the 225 FTX and 240 XTP is rated 900-2200 and the 300 XTP is rated 850-1900 ft/sec.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:55 PM
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I don't see why you think your 10.2 grain Herco load in .44 Magnum brass would give a velocity over 1100 ft/sec. According to the Hercules manual, they got 1050 ft/sec with 10.0 grains in .44 Special brass out of a 7.5 inch barrel. The 0.2 grain increase in powder charge and the increase in case volume is probably a wash, but the 3.5 inch loss of barrel length would cost about 140 ft/sec, bringing you down to 910 ft/sec. According to Hornady, that may be enough for expansion but it's not going to have the penetration of an 1100 ft/sec load that you might need for 300 pound varmints (I assume wild boar).
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Old 05-24-2020, 03:09 AM
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Default What you saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
The 1987 Hercules load data chart has a 44 Special load of 10 grains which yields 1050 fps from a 7.5" barrel...
The 44 Mag load is 13.3 grains for a velocity of 1495 fps...
I settled on 10.2 grains. That should be in the mid 1100 fps range for a 4" model 29.
In re-reading your post you IMPLY you're going to load the 180gr XTPs in 44 Magnum brass, instead of 44 Special, but don't specifically say so.

Are you?

If so... 44 Mag brass has ~6.9% more volume than 44 Special brass.

Filled with Herco @ 10.2grs, according to QuickLoad, with the 180gr XTP seated .230" deep (to the cannelure), it nets 66.3% volume fill -vs- 56.7% fill (44 Spcl -vs- 44Mag). Almost 10% less full.

FWIW, from a 4" bbl. it estimates 1035fps -vs- 956fps (44 Spcl -vs- 44Mag).

.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:12 PM
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:01 AM
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Where I cannot answer much as to min vel and expansion, I can say that I'm a massive fan of the 180g XTP and have done extensive testing with them. Take in mind, this is MY load data, use at your own risk:

In special cases, through a 4" S&W 629:

8.5g Unique- 970 fps
14g 2400- 737 fps
16g 2400- 976 fps

In magnum cases in a 7.5" Super Redhawk:

31.5g H110- 1789 fps
26g 2400- 1675 fps

I've taken the 2400 down to 24g in a magnum case and in the end, found that 25g of 2400 produces a very accurate load with std primers. They are also serious "ka-boom'rs" too, seriously loud (although not as load as the H110). Running them back/forth, I've always had better accuracy with the 25g 2400 load.
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